This is quite comical. I put in my two cents and the fool deleted it. jbuffyangel

Yeah, I read it. You know what I don't like about writers sometimes? When they come off holy than thou. I try to avoid that. Hopefully I'm successful. 

There were points I agreed with and points I didn't. First thing I didn't agree with? The tone. I really don't like it when authors generalize and this sucker had generalizations all over the place.

First, the assertion that anyone who doesn't like Laurel doesn't have any evidence to back it up or if you don't like Laurel you are sheep. (FYI...I really don't like name calling in debate. It's a pet peeve. Make your point and be mature about it). People who don't like the character Laurel Lance have legitimate reasons WHY they don't like her and none of them were listed in the article. 

I don't prescribed to the theory that Laurel was written to be unlikable S1. I do agree with that assessment for S2. The writers had a very clear & intent purpose to burn the character to the ground. But the unfavorable view of Laurel didn't begin with fans in S2. It started in S1. The point of Laurel in S1 was to be Oliver's great love. You don't get audience buy in to a love story if one half of the couple is unlikable. That wasn't the writers intent at all, but it was the result. The result DID boil down to poor writing choices. They set up the history of this couple, the foundation, on betrayal & cheating...not with some stranger but with Laurel's SISTER. Speaking as a woman, and I do believe females represent a good chunk of the Arrow audience, that was the most UNLIKABLE side to Oliver and the fact that Laurel even entertained going back to this guy flew in the face of what any reasonable woman would do. It created a lack of respect for Laurel...even if you supported her anger.

Season 1 Laurel was also incredibly difficult to get to know. The first season sets the foundation for the character. It's incredibly important. The problem was, the writers changed their minds about who Laurel was every single episode. She supports The Vigilante, she hates the Vigilante; she loves Tommy, she wants nothing to do with Tommy; she loves Oliver, she hates Oliver; she's an intelligent, shrewd attorney but can't put two and two together that some guy in a hood (WHO SHOWED UP THE VERY SAME WEEK OLIVER QUEEN RETURNED) is following her around all the time; she believes in the justice system cementing moral opposition to the Vigilante's very existence, she goes outside of the justice system & works with the Vigilante; she can kick ass, she's the helpless victim...I mean the list of inconsistencies within the S1 story structure of Laurel Lance go on FOREVER.

How's that for evidence?

I actually have a bigger issue with the assertion that BECAUSE the character was written to be unlikable (again disagree about S1) that the audience should LIKE the character for that reason.

HUH? If the character is written to be unlikable, then the audience reacting in a negative manner is the expected result. The audience not liking Laurel is the writers' intended outcome. Therefore you cannot lambast the audience for a reaction that the writers intentionally created. Cause & effect my friend. Look it up.

By late S2, like I state in my Black Canary post, the tide was turning on Laurel and it was because of her love for Sara, so I don't disagree with the assertion that Laurel had begun to change.

The problem is, give the audience TIME. The author listed 3 episodes in S2 they believe Laurel's changes were best exhibited and the S3 premiere, whereby happy/well adjusted Laurel was onscreen for probably a grand total of 10 minutes, before all of her happiness was destroyed by killing off the love of her life....Sara

You know...4 episodes out of 46 total doesn't get the job done. Is it a start? You bet, but to ask the audience to ignore two seasons of legitimate character problems because the writers have started writing her in a more positive light? Eh. You know, I wouldn't be calling out the fans  about that. Give them a little more time. This author's assertion is that Laurel was specifically written to be unlikable for 46 episodes, give or take. So how about we have 46 episodes of Laurel being written as likable before we start criticizing fans over their Laurel opinions? I agree with the assertion that a character can change, but change in writing takes time. How about we give some time to the audience as well? A little balance is always nice.

The reason I wrote that Black Canary post was because the Laurel problem and the Laurel solution has been two years in the making. As I took a step back & looked at the bigger picture I began to piece together where the writers had gone wrong, how they were fixing it and the overall intent of the character. But I'm an obssesed fan. Most people aren't going to spend 3 days writing a meta on Laurel Lance's character progression. Most people watch the damn episode and go about their day. It's an episode by episode issue and it's an episode by episode solution. It needs time to work. The S3 premiere was just the start of the solution coming to fruition but we've got 22 more episodes to go.

Olicity. First, I agree with the assertion that just because you like Felicity doesn't mean you can't like Laurel. I am both a Felicity and Laurel fan.  I also believe there is enough evidence to support that Oliver Queen's main love interest, and intended endgame, is Felicity Smoak. To view Laurel as a threat to Olicity isn't necessary any longer.

But comparing Laurel to Shado, Sara or McKenna? That's just laughable. Laurel was set out from the pilot as the epic love of Oliver Queen's life. I don't doubt for even a second that Laurel & Oliver were the writer's Plan A couple and original endgame. So yes, Laurel represented a much more significant threat to those who are fans of Felicity & Oliver. We were asking the writing team to let go of their Plan A couple, their top billed actress, in favor of a story line with a supporting character who came in for one episode...a one off...a guest star.

That just doesn't happen in TV. We were asking the impossible. What's INSANE AND AMAZING about Olicity is that it did happen!!! The impossible became reality just from EBR's sheer talent and the chemistry she has with Stephen Amell. But we didn't know WITH CERTAINTY that was happening until the S2 finale. So cut the Olicity fandom a little slack. We've spent 2 years as the underdog. We're adjusting to being king of the mountain. The view is lovely however.

That being said, to generalize an entire group of people and say their only reason for disliking Laurel was because Lauriver was a threat to Olicity is nuts. I am a Laurel fan...not a LAURIVER fan. There are legitimate and fair reasons why that coupling was distasteful. It was extremely frustrating to see the writers consistently jam this couple down our throats even when a good portion of the audience wasn't buying it. As much negative reaction as there is to Laurel, there's also negative reaction to Oliver when these two are in a romantic story line. 

"You see, people who hate Laurel nearly always have it pointed out to them that Laurel is actually Black Canary in the comics, and will follow that show in the path. Cue the response 'comics are evil I hat comics, you're all nerds the comics aren't the show."

Again...more broad generalization. First and foremost, I know many fans who always understood that Laurel Lance would become Black Canary and had no issue with that. What they had an issue with was HOW the writers were choosing to frame the story. That the only way for Laurel Lance to become Black Canary was if she was in a romantic relationship with Oliver. It's bullshit writing and in this day & age unnecessary. Wonder Woman doesn't need to date Batman to be WONDER WOMAN. 

I don't have an issue with people pointing to the comics as the "reason" why the writers are choosing to go down a certain path. I've always ascertained the comics are source material, so I'm in agreement with the author on this. I do disagree that every fan who dislikes Laurel also hates the comics. It's a ridiculous assertion. For as many comic fans who are happy with the Laurel Lance character there are just as many who are unhappy. Just because you don't like Laurel doesn't mean you reject comics as a whole. 

"As it stands, the show is its own thing and the show has chosen to follow the comics in this respect. That was the show's own decision and so to hate the comics or to dismiss them because they don't meet your expectation is foolish and will ultimately likely end badly for you."

You know what's also a mistake? To hate on the show because it doesn't follow the comics. Likely will end badly for you...good grief, enough with the dramatic threats. What is this? The Godfather? The writers have chosen to make Laurel Black Canary. That's fine & absolutely represents a comic book character. HOW they make her Black Canary remains to be seen. Just because they are using the comic book name, doesn't mean they are following the comic book stories verbatim. The origin for Laurel becoming BC has started very differently from the comics. The comics are source material for BC just like every other character. 

Last point, belittling Katie Cassidy as a person is wrong. Insulting/threatening her as a human being is wrong. But you know what's not wrong? Not liking her acting. Actors have a product to sell just like McDonald's sell hamburgers. The difference? Actors are the product. Actors sell their talent and you know what? There's some actors I am not buying. I happen to like KC, I think she's done a good job so far (there's always room for improvement) but that doesn't mean every fan must. Name of the game people. Can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. There are fans who just don't like the way Katie Cassidy acts and that's a completely legitimate opinion. 

What upsets me about this article is that I agree with the overall goal...give Laurel Lance a chance this season. I wrote an anthology of all the reasons why I think Arrow's Black Canary origin story is successful and I am genuinely excited for Laurel's storyline this season. Unfortunately, this author misses the forest through the trees. Insulting the audience isn't the way to change their minds nor is making broad generalizations. 

This response doesn't show my love very much for Laurel, because I had to go on the defensive in regards to this article's assertions. I had to lay out the negatives about Laurel as evidence because the author asserted there wasn't any negative evidence. However, just because I recognize the problems with Laurel doesn't mean I don't appreciate the solution. I think the writers are on the brink of something great with this character and I will be tuning in to see how it all plays out. 

I never said that Laurel & Felicity HAVE to be friends. I said that they would probably be friendly. That’s my theory on where the writers are going to go, because quite frankly the writers have said that’s the direction they’re going to go. Whether we like it or not.  The fact that I said I believe Laurel & Felicity will be friends doesn’t mean I’m demanding people to like it.  People ask  my opinion on what I think is going to happen on the show. I never make demands on anyone reading my posts that they must like something or accept anything I say. You are more than entitled to your opinions and my posts are simply mine. They aren’t edicts. I am one small voice among many.

Hey Jen. Since this is the part that relates to me, let me clarify. I didn’t say that YOU were the one “demanding” people to like Laurel/Felicity. That was literally an aside because there are some parts of the fandom that do try and force that issue. Maybe it should have gone in a separate post of its own, and I’m sorry if you thought I was calling you personally out on it. I actually think that you have a very reasoned way of approaching Laurel. And yeah, we’ll agree to disagree on that character as a whole, but I still respect your opinions on it. And hey, debates are what fire the blood, right? We can ultimately disagree but it’s always fun to talk about why. :)

Oh absolutely sweetie…sorry. Did I sound pissed off about that? I’m not lol. No, no no. I love debating this stuff with you guys.  Honestly, I figured my post was sounding too demanding like “This is what you must think about Laurel” which is why I tagged it off yours. We’re all good. You’re still my soul sister. I love ya. I was a little cranky about the race stuff but stilettoroyalty remains a goddess among us all in my mind. My love for her runs deep.

*snacks on Doritos* What’d I miss? LOL. Did my black fist-ed afro pic encrusted post get you into trouble again, Jenn? Sorry! *waves* It’s all good. You are still a diamond, girl. Do you. Love you like a fat kid loves cake. Oh, wait, are the body issues police going to come after me for that? *shrugs* Toodles.

LOL...and this response is WHY you are a goddess among us all. I see your cake and raise you a glass a wine. Body issues police be damned. Love ya babe. Cheers

Anonymous said: So KC just did a con where she says that “Laurel isn’t afraid to challenge Oliver. She will stand up to him. He needs her.” Correct me if I’m wrong but the woman who does this & has been doing this since season 1 is Felicity....

1) I'm not on Twitter so I don't feel informed enough to comment on what AK tweets and what he doesn't tweet.  If Andrew is pushing a KC agenda or promotion that he doesn't pursue with other cast mates I find that fairly ridiculous.  The way to solve Katie Cassidy's promotion issues isn't by retweeting; it's by writing a better fucking character. If what you say is true, and I have no reason to doubt you my dear, then AK should spend a little less time on Twitter promotion for KC and more time putting pen to paper and writing a consistent character. That's just my two cents on the whole Twitter debacle.

2) My post was not meant to imply that because Laurel is no longer a threat to Olicity there's no reason to dislike her. Far from it in fact. The comments KC made were being viewed through a romantic lens by the Anons who sent me the asks in the first place. I was challenging them to remove the romantic component to KC's advice/needs her comment.  Since I don't believe Laurel or Lauriver is remotely a threat to Olicity anymore, my advice was to stop treating every comment KC makes as a threat or every action by Laurel as a threat to Olicity.  That being said, there are 15,000 other reasons to dislike Laurel. Reasons I've written post after post after post about. This post was intended to remove one of those reasons, because it's simply not a reality in the show anymore. That still leaves 14,999 other reasons to dislike Laurel that have nothing to do with Olicity. This was simply a Laurel post that DID have something to do with Olicity.

I do not have a "We must protect Laurel at all cost" attitude and it really frustrates me that you would insulate that I do. Search anti-Laurel anti-Lauriver on my blog. It's a fucking novel.  I am the hardest on Laurel in comparison to any other character on Arrow. But this is the essential problem with discussing Laurel Lance. Either I am being too hard on her, not holding her in upmost reverence, OR I'm not hating on her enough. It's really a no win situation.

Yes, there is a version of Laurel that I like. We're going to have to agree to disagree on that.  I have repeatedly stated that I am giving the writers one more chance. Season 3 is their last chance at Laurel Lance redemption in my eyes. If the writers choose to write Laurel consistently from the version that I like, then yes...I have hope for the character. I am cautiously optimistic, but by no means do I play favorites with Laurel. I actually think I'm pretty fair & balanced when it comes to her and ALL the characters on Arrow. I take the good with the bad.  I'm also letting the episodes air before I make a final judgment on the character. I appreciate that you already have, but that doesn't mean everyone has to do the same.

Finally, how do you know I'm not in Mogadishu blogging from my hut? Okay fine...I'm totally white. But I REALLY take exception to you stating that's the reason I like Laurel Lance. Race has absolutely nothing to do with it.  I look at the character as a whole, and just because I see positive traits in Laurel that you don't doesn't mean my reason is because Laurel is white. Quite frankly stating as such is insulting.  I write post after post both positive & negative about all the characters on Arrow regardless of race. I could give a flying fuck what color they are. They could be purple for all I care. It doesn't matter if Laurel is played by Katie Cassidy or Gabrielle Union, my character assessment would remain the same.  There are both positives and negatives with Laurel and I talk about both all the time, regardless of the actress' skin color.

Do you know what character I NEVER say anything negative about?  John Diggle. Is that because he's a black man? No. It's because John Diggle is flawless. I have yet to really see a negative trait produced in the character. I named my fucking blog after a John Diggle quote.  I constantly say I never argue with the character. Now, eventually there might be something about Diggle's character I disagree with and when that time comes I'm sure I'll comment on it. That day is not today and quite frankly Diggle is Yoda to me. You don't argue with Yoda.  But that's got nothing to do with the color of his skin. That has to do with the CHARACTER the writers have created and the one David Ramsey portrays.  I don't see John Diggle as being pushed out by Roy Harper or Laurel Lance. One ridiculous poster doesn't get it done for me. He's JOHN DIGGLE. He is a male lead, second only to Oliver Queen. That position will never be usurped in my mind. Not by Roy, not by Laurel...not by anyone.

But on the flip side of that I'm not going to defend or a promote character based simply on their race. I'm sorry, I just won't. If it's not okay to support a character based on my demographic, as you say, then  it's not okay to support a character based solely on ANY demographic. Just because it's the flip and it's your demographic being represented doesn't make it anymore right. I've got no problem supporting diversity and I think Arrow does a halfway decent job at it. The cast is diverse. Is there room for improvement? Absolutely, but that goes for every show on every network. However, I look at the character, not the color of their skin, to form my opinions on them. From my standpoint, the Arrow cast can be paint by numbers, a fucking rainbow. My opinion doesn't change.

3) I absolutely understand that some are going to reject Laurel being part of Team Arrow. And by the way, I've stated about a THOUSAND TIMES, that Roy and Laurel joining Team Arrow in no way usurps Diggle & Felicity's place in  Oliver's heart & life. There is a reason why the writers had Oliver say, "This started with the three of us. It's time we got back to that." The writers made it canon. No matter who joins the team, no matter who comes and goes, this trio is the foundation of Arrow. This trio is the one that matters, all additional team members are simply secondary from Oliver's viewpoint. But just because they are secondary doesn't mean that they don't matter or will eventually become vital members of the team.

The problem with writing Laurel off before a single episode of S3 has aired is that we haven't given her a chance to EARN her spot on Team Arrow. I am in agreement at the point Laurel was in at 2x23, she hasn't earned her spot on Team Arrow. When Katie made that comment she's already 8 episodes into S3. Perhaps Laurel is earning her spot, it remains to be seen, but I'm not going to judge it until I actually see a damn episode.

I never said that Laurel & Felicity HAVE to be friends. I said that they would probably be friendly. That's my theory on where the writers are going to go, because quite frankly the writers have said that's the direction they're going to go. Whether we like it or not.  The fact that I said I believe Laurel & Felicity will be friends doesn't mean I'm demanding people to like it.  People ask  my opinion on what I think is going to happen on the show. I never make demands on anyone reading my posts that they must like something or accept anything I say. You are more than entitled to your opinions and my posts are simply mine. They aren't edicts. I am one small voice among many.