Ever since I read ADWD I can’t stop thinking about the implications of this line:

“That earned him the worst thrashing he ever had at Winterfell, though it was almost tender compared to the beatings his brothers used to give him back on Pyke”

From how he treats the mischievous Arya and Bran, it is hard to imagine Ned thrashing Robb or Jon for such an accident. No other child of the Stark household mentions being physically punished, so was it only Theon? Could Ned have thought it would be the most effective form of punishment considering Theon had been raised with it? Or more likely, Ned couldn’t bear to raise a hand to his own children, and it helped him keep Theon at arm’s length? Same motive behind having Theon carry Ice for executions? Does this call back on the idea of Theon being the Stark’s dog, who must be kept at bay?

OR was this line not intended to bring up an unsavory image of Ned singling out Theon, but more just to emphasize he was taken from an extremely abusive environment into an objectively gentler one that was still extremely broken (hence his further mentions of Winterfell never feeling like home)

Just kind of wondering abt author’s intention y’know.

I'm not getting into whether Euron is even capable or love (though he does refer to Aeron as a "loved one" in TWOW), what interests me in this sentence is the way Aeron's views of his brothers contrasts with his views on what brotherly love means.

Aeron seems to have a great admiration for Balon as a ruler, he sees him as everything a king was meant to be, the man who restored some of the former glory of the Iron Islands, a man that Aeron even considered to be one of the pillars in his life. On the other hand he despises everything Euron represents, both to himself —given the abuse he suffered— and to the collective people of the Iron Islands, their way of living and specially their religion considering Euron's "ungodliness". But love seems to be something he associates with Euron, rather than Balon. Which is interesting because he understands very well that he was abused, he never sugarcoats anything, he seems certain and righteous in his hatred for the Euron and doesn't justify his brother hurting him. Not like he justifies Balon's scorn ("I was weak and full of sin, and scorn was more than I deserved"). And yet, he felt loved (a very twisted sort of love) by Euron in a way that he never felt he was by Balon. To Aeron scorn can't coexist with love, but abuse can. It's the kind of mindset that makes sense when you're part of a society whose values are mostly built on violence.

Asha being a mini-Balon quick fire (based on pre-ADWD Asha) because their very close connection goes so under discussed.

“They’re dogs and he’s a wolf,” said Jon. “They know he’s not their kind.”

(still) on my Clash of Kings re-read and I'm very enamored with Theon and his fondness over Dagmer Cleftjaw's smile:

And how often Theon is described as smiling. Catelyn finds it off-putting, as does Bran. And how his smile is generally associated with how distrustful and perverse he is. But Theon himself seems at least ~somewhat~ aware of that, and maybe even a little proud. He names his horse Smiler for that time someone told him he "smiles at all the wrong things". He embraces it.

thinking about asoiaf's lost/forgotten kids, and i don't think i've ever seen much commented about euron's bastards? i mean, they are super minor characters, but there are other super minor characters that are more frequently mentioned and discussed, like weasel (love her). personally i think about those kids often. we know euron brings three of them to the kingsmoot, and one of them (a 10 year old boy) actually appears on page in affc, telling victarion that euron wants to talk to him. i've seen a lot of people who think they've also had their tongues cut, but i think that's because the text refers to both euron's bastards and euron's crew of mutes as mongrels and that creates some confusion. i don't know if the other two are older or younger or where they are from on their mothers side, but i think that and their relationship with their father could be some really interesting points to explore. i am of the opinion that the other two are older than the 10 year old, it would make sense for euron to bring sons that are almost adults to the kingsmoot (?) but that's about it lol. where the hell are those kids now. is euron going to use them as blood sacrifices? probably, he doesn't give a shit about them. are they aware of their situation? is any of them anything like their father? honestly i don't think they're going to be relevant in the following books but it's still entertaining to think about it.

there's a quote in affc i think about A LOT because i find it extremely funny:

Victarion shuddered. "Show me this dragon's egg."

"I threw it in the sea during one of my dark moods." Euron gave a shrug. 

AFFC The Reaver

Vic doesn't even blink at Euron's explanation, he doesn't react to it at all!! Euron just keeps talking! and I think this little exchange implies something very funny:

big bad Euron G gets 'dark moods' during which he makes stupid decisions, and this is something known to other people, or at the very least, his family and his crew. 'Oh Euron is in one of his moods' is a thing in the Greyjoy household. it's a thing in the Silence.

imagine being one of the mutes and the mad man who had your tongue cut off gets all moody and edgy for whatever reason. mutes can't talk but i'm sure they can still roll their eyes.

Victarion just seems to accept that Euron being in a dark mood is a perfectly good reason for him to throw a DRAGON EGG in the ocean. yeah, sure, Vic is dumb, but the premise is that past experience tells him that could've totally happened.

and, i mean, Euron didn't exactly throw the dragon egg in the sea, but he knows it's believable if he uses the dark mood excuse. he's completely aware that he has done the most stupidly dramatic stuff in the past while in a mood, and he knows other people are also aware of this.

and i think this is as relatable as Euron will ever get.

Cersei and Asha are foils the way Jon and Theon are…hear me out:

GRRM described Theon as wanting to be what Jon is, except Theon gives into his worst selfish impulses and is poisoned by envy and the desire to belong, so he ends up failing at every turn.

Asha is her father’s son of a great house who has been awarded the freedoms socially and politically equal to a man. She has control over her sexuality, is expected to speak her mind, and was educated as a son would be. What Asha has is all Cersei has ever wanted, but by the time Cersei comes into her power she has been beaten down and bittered by life. She’s desperately clinging onto what she does have and always scraping to get at what she doesn’t. Her efforts only end in death and destruction. She’s paranoid and extremely in her own head about everything. Sounds a LOT like Jon and Theon. (Asha still deals with inequality being a woman in Westeros but y’all get my point, she’s been incredibly privileged.)

an examination of theon greyjoy's feelings about and (implied) relationship with evil uncle euron

the first we read of euron is in theon's first pov as he searched the harbor at lordsport for euron's ship. no reason is given for singling that ship out nor an initial reaction to its absence. later down the page euron is described as different from balon and victarion, with none of an older man's caution to be expected from him. that's why theon thought it for the best that euron's ship was not in port, though at this point it appears his only concern is being the boldest greyjoy around, commanding the fleet all the more quickly for its already being assembled, and not being outshone by euron. the only hint at more is his description of the ship as "terrible".

by theon's next chapter, when he and (unknown, to him) asha discuss their greyjoy uncles, theon has learned that euron hasn't been seen in the iron islands for two years. atp, rather than just noting that euron's not at home, theon has decided it's for the best if he's died somewhere and can never return. the word terrible is again used wrt euron and it's also said that his ship is infamous all over the world. euron is the only greyjoy never to have given up the old way in any sense, and the implied danger to theon is that he could also partake in the old tradition of a strong, ambitious uncle murdering his nephew. euron has thus been establishled as a villain, a threat, and possible kinslayer more specifically but we have yet to learn all the other, more unique aspects of his villainy. i think it likely that grrm, with his gardener-writing, had not yet decided that euron was an incestuous sexual predator. the risk of nepoticide is enough to explain theon's nervous shifting at the mention of euron's cunning and the terrible things said of him, but it could also apply to euron's full characterization only revealed years later in aeron's pov, one of those little half-open seeds gardener-grrm could decide to grow later.

our next clue about theon/euron is not from his own pov but in the book between his arcs when he's "offscreen". i'd say the fact that theon had confided to robb at all about euron is significant, let alone that he related enough things about euron for robb to rhetorically dismiss half of what theon told him and still feel confident of ironborn infighting with euron on the throne. (with theon's status unknown and asha absent from the isles too, euron would have a claim to that throne and a better one than victarion regardless as the eldest surviving greyjoy. vic is the dutiful younger brother who wouldn't normally make any power play, so for robb to know that euron's rule would be challenged by his younger brothers shows he does indeed have insider intel wrt euron.)

this accurate read from robb stands in pretty, ahem, stark contrast to everything theon must have told robb and himself about the likelihood of a robb/balon alliance. an impartial observer who knew (as theon did) that balon's first rebellion was about bringing back the old way more than just independance from the iron throne would have known those goals were not in line with the kitn's cause and that alliance was a no-go from the start. we see in the quoted portion of theon i above how he lied to himself about balon becoming a cautious old man and this being his time in the sun, yet it seems euron was the one family member he couldn't lie to himself about. not only did euron make such an impression on him that theon always remembered him very clearly but the effect was such that amid all his hostage time at wf fantasizing about his return home, he felt the need to tell robb the truth about this one scary relative by confiding in him with multiple stories. (though if euron had sexually abused theon, i can't imagine him ever explicitly revealing that to robb or anyone else.)

this is euron's only name-drop in theon's dance pov, significant only in that it shows theon had recent news of his uncles, enough to know that euron dgaf about keeping balon's northern conquests and had instead drawn vic and the other captains far away. which brings me to ...

here, we have theon meeting a non-bolton northman he's known before, no different really from all the non-bolton northmen inside wf or any others he'd met growing up there, none of whom really seemed to scare him as his captors did, yet the mere sight of mors "crowfood" umber's eye patch is enough to freak theon the fuck out, wanting to rip off the eye patch for reassurance that crowfood was just a regular guy. this is the kind of terror we'd expect wrt ramsay, which would make sense in that regard, as ramsay had been his most immediate abuser, torturing theon in every sense for around a year almost right up until the moment of his escape, and ramsay's still right there in wf, so theon had good reason to still fear recapture by him. euron, though? that's an uncle he hadn't seen in over ten years, who theon knew to be far from wf as seen in the above dance quote, so he had no reason to expect to see him again in that part of westeros and one would think he had enough immediate problems not to worry about someone he hadn't seen in so long. you'd think his pre-ned, pre-ramsay childhood with all the greyjoys would feel a lifetime away with all he'd been through since, esp the reekening. but whatever impression euron left on him was still just as clear and fresh as ever, so that anyone with an eye patch could suddenly make him feel fear of an uncle hundreds of miles and a decade removed from him. from this moment i take away two things: 1) theon will survive stannis and have to meet uncle euron again bc otherwise i don't see the point of grrm throwing this in here and 2) it now feels a helluva lot more likely that theon was another csa victim of euron's bc i don't think this kind of sudden fear could be accounted for with just general scariness from euron. feels more like being triggered by a trauma flashback (just as aeron had as soon as he heard that euron had taken balon's throne), doesn't it?

after all, theon/aeron are already linked in the feastdance as both are youngest greyjoy siblings who happen to also be victims of abuse who had buried their old selves in a new identity. aeron's old self even sounds a lot like pre-ramsay theon. theon remembered pre-born-again aeron as the "most amiable of his uncles, feckless and quick to laugh, fond of songs, ale, and women", and aeron described his younger self as "a sack of wine with legs. He would sing, he would dance [...] he would jape and jabber and make mock. He played the pipes, he juggled, he rode horses and could drink more than all the Wynches and the Botleys, and half the Harlaws too." doesn't that sound like the ever-smiling and joking unserious theon we first met, fond of wine and womanizing, once a good dancer, and better ahorse than most ironborn? the only part really missing for theon is aeron's ability to always win literal pissing contests. you'd think being sexually abused by two different evildoers (euron and ramsay) would be enough of a parallel, but this winds preview chapter certainly makes it seem like they also shared the specific experience of being abused by euron in childhood too. our poor youngest kraken really did never have a chance, did he?

shoutout to this post detailing the evidence of theon's sa by ramsay for inspiration. ik i'm not the first to suggest abuse by euron too, but thought it useful to make the case by laying out all the relevant quotes as evidence.

(ok this is going to be somewhat of an unstructured post because i am just Thinking this through and laying my thoughts out, maybe i'll format it into a proper essay later)

I've seen a few posts talking about the narrative foils that the North and Dorne--ice and fire--play in the narrative, but recently I've come to notice another such foil. In the books, there seems to be this strange attraction in the narrative between the Iron Islands and the Stormlands, specifically between Stannis and the Greyjoys. It's been gnawing at the back of my head for a while, so I wanted to explore it and see what it might mean.

Similarities:

But that's not all, because it's not just that the Greyjoys and Baratheons are paralleled, but Stannis specifically seems to be intimately involved thematically and plot-wise with the past and future of House Greyjoy.

what does it all mean? do these parallels between stannis and the greyjoys tell us anything about their themes, or what their arcs might be in TWOW/ADOS?

idk man this is all i got so far what do yall think

also this post was partially inspired by a post i read a while back which ive attached below so give it a read too:

not a fully-formed idea, but maybe there's something to be drawn between Bran's "learning how to fly" and Euron's "dreaming he could fly" and the sky cells calling to people before the Arryns "make them fly"

There's this thematic parallel there in terms of the "abyss."

Bran is in this cave that's just constructed out of symbolism of the access and knowledge he's about to have (as I return to a favorite quote of mine):

The literal reality of this is fascinating, but it's less important than the symbolic parallel. Bran, plugged into the Weirwoods, has access to these pathways-as-knowledge: sudden shafts, forgotten knowledge, knowledge that would unravel the very core of the world. So much knowledge that even the Children have not explored it all.

And then, finally, there's that promise of this fundamental fear: the abyss of those sunless seas, lurking down some unknown pathway, and the threat of rivers that would carry one towards it.

Which makes such a perfect inversion to the bright, light, but equally empty and expansive abyss of sky beneath the Eyrie. One is lit and one is unlit, but each has its own pathways towards getting wholly lost in it. And especially how they always say how the sky "calls" to the people in the sky cells, and then how Robert Arryn calls that act of being trust into the sky "flying."

And that word feels like it ties these all together with especially Euron, who maybe, like a sky-cell prisoner, is also hearing the call of "the abyss" (for lack of a better term). And his doesn't have a physical allegory; it's only a metaphysical one, instead of the literal sky. And here's Euron, willing to throw himself out his own (metaphorical) Moon Door in an effort to learn to fly through that Abyss.

Asha, Qarl and the consent quandaries in asoiaf

Which canon romantic (and/or sexual) relationships are you comfortable with when you read asoiaf? Which ones are you uncomfortable with? Why?

What about the sexual encounters GRRM describes, which ones seem consensual? Which ones don’t?

Every reader is going to answer this slightly differently, we each bring our own baggage around consent and romance and sex to the page when we read anything. Asha and Qarl, who we see in close up for a few pages of Dance, offer an interesting lens through which to view consent in asoiaf. [this discusses non-consent below the line]

Empathy for Euron

I'm not looking for excuses for Euron, but even someone so wholly villainous as Euron has a certain tragic humanity to his character. TWOW spoilers included.

It sounds like Euron was born so psychically powerful so young, but was surrounded by a culture that only recognized literal, physical strength. He had some kind of ability to see some kind of greater picture, to recognize that out there, somewhere, there was the ability to “fly,” but everyone around him is lockstep in this smallminded, delusional ideal of the old way, which is obviously going to doom them.

So he never had any guidance. It’s Bran without Jojen to mentor him, Varamyr without Haggon. We see from Varamyr how totally alienating these kinds of powers are—even though Varamyr uses them to become an utter piece of shit, a lot of it comes from his acute awareness of how much his existence separates him from the society around him. Even with guidance Bran is still warging Hodor to try to pretend to be someone else, he’s still staying in Summer for days at a time to escape his existence as a physically weak skinchanger.

And Euron isn’t just lacking a mentor, he’s lacking anyone who even recognizes what he’s experiencing. He blasphemes against god, killing Harlon, who is in some ways parallel to Euron, also sick, also silently suffering for the unwillingness of the Ironborn to extend empathy past strength. Killing Harlon is like killing himself, Harlon begs him, (to what? stop? continue? he’s not any more sure that he wants to live than Euron is) and immediately afterward, Euron himself is prepared to die, begging god to kill him because even that would be proof that he’s not alone, not the only person who is attuned to these senses. Instead, Euron lives. He’s not struck down—and so he is truly alone. On Pyke, only the gods could relate to the experience Euron is having, and even they won’t answer him.

Eventually Euron leaves, and now, separated from the Ironborn, he lives an empty, macabre replica of their ideals. He rules with absolute authority a ship of mutes, as lockstep with his goals as the Greyjoys were with Balon’s. He’s the perfect pirate but it’s not the plunder he craves—that joy is empty for him. It’s the prayer he that he really wants, the only recognition that the sole, lonely god in the world could ever ask for.

Finally he returns home, killing his brother and stepping into his role, the perfect ideal imitation of what Balon could have been. He recognizes the illusion the Ironborn need. But in private, to his family, he’s still searching for an equal. He wants to invite Victarion into his world—he’s suddenly found a substance that lets average people see the way Euron has been seeing this whole time. But Vic still won’t have it, so Euron decides to forcibly create a brother that understands him. If Vic won’t take the leap voluntarily, Euron will push Aeron—which is cruel, but it is pitiful, too, because he even now he wants someone to know what it's like to see like he does, even now he wants someone to fly with him.

Obviously Euron is still a maniac and a madman but... you can also imagine how lonely he must have always felt, how even his nihilism is tragic—if he thinks himself a god, and the gods are dead, then he knows he is so, so alone.

That said. This excuses nothing and leaves plenty unexplained, too.

Euron's Götterdämmerung

Warning! Spoilers ahead for A Dance With Dragons, A Feast For Crows, and ASOIAF in general

Mild hot take: Asha’s words to Stannis were not said out of cruelty or callousness. Asha has reflected on how Theon’s crimes will inevitably have to be paid for and she’s exhausted her efforts to make amends with the north thus far. Requesting an Ironborn be given to a heart tree, putting respect on the name of the man who took three of her brothers and drove her mother to madness, goes against everything Asha’s ever known. But the old gods answered Theon’s prayers, he belongs to them and she has no place to deny that if he believes so. This is the only thing she can do for Theon. She can’t save Theon from death and she won’t make amends with the north without paying an iron price.

If she has to see her brother die, be it in a way that would mean something for all of them.