so, about goysplaining
Would you explain to a black person what is and isn't racism? To a woman what is and isn't misogyny? Would you dictate what's allowed to make trans people feel unsafe, and what isn't sufficiently transphobic? Say to a Democrat who vandalized a Trump 2024 sign that actually the fact that they got thrown into an almost-freezing river and were only allowed out after they yelled "Trump 2024!" was only fair, since obviously that's what they deserve for vandalizing? No?
Then why the fuck is it okay to do it for Jews?
Why is it ok for Jews to kill Palestinians??!
I didn't mention Israel.
I didn't mention Palestine.
I didn't mention any of that, let alone imply or say it was okay.
This was about the Amsterdam pogrom.
Which, so we're clear, did not happen because the people attacked had any connection to Israel. They were attacked because they looked Jewish, in a preplanned attack. Non-Israelis were attacked and Israelis were spared.
I won't say it's your fault. But I will say that part of the cause, and blame, lies in promoters of the sort of rhetoric you have a habit of posting. Unfortunately, you're not alone in posting it.
"Jew" does not mean "Israeli", and vice versa. "Israelis" is four letters longer than "Jews". That's not so many. Try using accurate terminology when you bullshit; it makes such an easy target.
This isn't even a strawman anymore. That implies it bears a vague resemblance to the original argument.
When Jews say leftist antisemitism is totally a thing and being harassed for posting about Jewish things and concerns is very much a problem online, this is (one small part of) what we mean.
Zionists going to another country to spew racist shit and getting taught a lesson in manners is not a fucking pogrom you absolute turd!!! That’s the way it should be!!
Ok, let's deconstruct those claims.
Zionists
And there's already a lie here. The targets were anyone they perceived as a Jew, period, end of sentence. People were spared if they spoke in Arabic (thank you, Malham Assad!) and attacked if they were perceived as Jewish or helping Jews (eg, BBC). That's not Zionist.
going to another country to spew racist shit
They went for a game. The racist rhetoric, while existent, was not the main attraction. The soccer game was.
getting taught a lesson in manners
WHAT.
I...don't think you understand what a lesson in manners is.
- Fans were kicked and shoved for having a Maccabi Tel Aviv scarf
- Stun grenades were thrown (ibid)
- Chabad and the chief rabbi of Israel decided it would fall under Pikuach nefesh to keep working on Shabbat. (ibid). If you don't realize the enormity of that, both are super Orthodox and will do anything they can to keep Shabbat. But they decided it was dangerous enough for these fans that the rules go out the window and it would fall under saving a life to break Shabbat. Obviously that's not a be-all end-all, but it's a pretty strong indicator that it was not your normal riot.
- Five people were hospitalized (AP)
- Per the JTA, a well-respected syndication service similar to AP but focusing more on Jewish subjects (specifically, here): "Israeli officials urged Israelis in Amsterdam to remain in their homes or hotel rooms and to obscure any signifiers of their national or Jewish identity." That is not normal. Also, note the second part. It was an attack on those thought of as Jewish.
Let's also discuss an article from the Telegraph (unpaywalled archived link), because it is full of refutations. First of all, this was preplanned. They couldn't have known that Maccabi fans were going to be racist. Second, getting taught a lesson in manners does not normally entail people literally jumping into canals to escape, nor does it entail not being let out until saying "free palestine". Or unconscious people being kicked. Or people offering "all my [their] money" in exchange for it to stop, and being told "free Palestine now" like they're Benjamin Netanyahu.
is not a fucking pogrom
Maybe.
It's hard to say. Generally, pogroms imply a lack of involvement, if not active participation, of authorities, and per the Telegraph they were slow to arrive. So there's that. But there's also the fact that my claim that it's a pogrom is by no means a fringe view in the Jewish community; major media outlets such as the Jerusalem Post, Forward, et cetera have called it that. In fact it's a very common one. Hell, Deborah Lipstadt, Special Envoy to Monitor and Combat Antisemitism and noted scholar of it (she got sued by a Holocaust denier in court in what is probably the only court case which partially revolves around where one files a libel claim to be adapted into first a book published by a major publishing company and then a movie produced by a major company), called it "reminiscent of a pogrom" (I refuse to direct anyone to Musk's site so here's a link to a proxy instead).
you absolute turd!!!
I'm not going to say you should be taught a lesson in manners, but I will say you should reconsider your euphemisms.
That's the way it should be!!
As Seth Mandel has noted, "According to this logic, after every march in which keffiyeh-clad protesters chant “from the river to the sea” and other such phrases, it would be normal for Americans to carry out mass organized violence against anyone from the general public seen wearing a checkered scarf."
I recommend reading that piece in Commentary magazine (https://www.commentary.org/seth-mandel/the-illusion-of-jewish-free-speech-rights/) and other pieces from it about what happened (https://www.commentary.org/articles/john-podhoretz/theyre-hunting-jews-down/, https://www.commentary.org/articles/meir-soloveichik/america-amsterdam-jews-israel/, https://www.commentary.org/seth-mandel/fear-of-the-muscular-jew/). They are a more right-wing Jewish take on the matter. I disagree with many of the ideas espoused in Commentary (one of their issues had on the cover "Woke: The Threat?"; a fine example of Betteridge's law), but I find them valuable reading nonetheless. (Full disclosure: Multiple relatives have written for Commentary, one at the beginning and one more recently.) (Fuller disclosure: Jews keep in touch; I believe they get no closer than "sibling of great-grandparent")
