trying something new _(*°v°*)_

also you know what fuck Lee

and her mind games

the people DIDN’T JUST COME FOR THE MONEY

the majority of people who came weren’t even contestants - they were there for the thrill of the game, for the sick excitement of the build up and suspense and waiting to see if someone was going to get horribly tortured/killed or not, they were there for the rush of shared experience, for the sense of belonging they got from joining in the chants

the people WERE THERE BECAUSE THEY LOVED IT

and what they loved all came from Ed

he remembered everything they liked best about the Fight Club and he gave it back to them with a little extra razzle dazzle

maybe consciously they didn’t realise it

but IT WAS RIDDLER THEY LOVED

mean ploy, Lee, playing on our boy’s yearning for approval and validation like that, convincing him that he was mistaken (naive, foolish, wrong) about what he was getting from the crowd, so you could swoop in and present yourself as the one person who can give it to him for real

…like, GENIUS 

but mean :p

I was so torn over this whole Riddle Factory thing, at first I thought .. wow this rather looks like Nygma´s wet dream than anything that would actually ever happen, like how would this work out how does he find candidates who are willing to get mauled by animals for a small (*) chance for cash? How do you find a crowd for that. If he´s baiting them with violence and spectacle to have them sit through the riddle part this probably won´t work long ..  So I was at first really on board with Lee saying they are only there for the money, but they way they shot this and the way they have set this up, this indeed can´t really be true, there´s certainly got to be something about Ed´s show that was something people wanted for that whole thing to work out ……  so in short I agree :D The point about the shared experience is a great one!! 

(*) And this makes me wonder about a couple other things. Like what where the odds to win this? Either they were indeed really tiny, which again would imho lead to a lack of candidates or  The Riddler was fine with being beaten in riddling on a stage in front of an audience and that repeatedly ..  and not even by special people he selected like on his murder spree but by whoever agreed to participate .. I find that hard to believe? 

From what I´ve read there was a Riddle Factory plot happening in the Comics, that was only orchestrated to be a distraction, but so far I was too lazy to do more research on how and if people won there ^^ 

(Also: Where there ever cases where someone in the audience just couldn´t help and shout the answer to a riddle up to the stage  .. )

Yeah, see to me it was really not that different from the Fight Club in terms of entertainment, in a way, and we KNOW that the Narrows went NUTS for that. Only instead of having to fight for a small amount of money, you have to answer riddles. Since there was never a shortage of people willing to risk their lives to take part in the fighting, it makes sense to me people would likewise be queuing up to take part in the Riddle Factory. And the watching crowd gets their fix of violence still.

Having to sit through the riddles instead of watching a bloody battle might have been the tricky part to sell. But we saw that the Narrows public LOVED Eddie’s theatrics back when he was putting on the Penguin show, so I figure they’d have been willing to give it a shot because of that, just out of curiosity. Then, like I say in my rather melodramatic post above (:p), Eddie pulled in all the parts of his fight club performances that the crowd had loved (like the audience participation) and I’m good to believe that won them over to the new style of violent entertainment :p

You make a good point about Ed/Riddler likely not being down with anyone defeating him at riddling onstage (or at least not repeatedly). But that if he always won, wouldn’t it mean no one would volunteer?

Well, I see it as Eddie setting himself up as the ‘Grundy’ of the game. As the champion that people volunteer to defeat, and who everyone else comes along to watch win. 

Because Grundy basically never lost, right? But the crowd ALWAYS LOVED HIM and never tired of that. And people ALWAYS TRIED TO DEFEAT HIM anyway.

Because Grundy became, like, the representative of the Narrows I think? He was something like their mascot, but also something more, like the embodiment of them? Which made people LONG for the reassurance of watching him constantly win, I think. Because it made them feel triumphant in themselves, gave them hope that the Narrows would also survive, made them proud and patriotic about their home.

But it simultaneously made a select few more and more eager to take Grundy on, because the more Grundy’s popularity grew, the greater the potential  PRESTIGE for whoever finally took him down. 

So that’s what I figure Riddler was trying to emulate - he was making himself the champion the crowd always wanted to win and who, because of that, always had a long line of people eager to prove themselves as the one able to finally best him. 

…meaning I figure he never lost, no :p (not until Lee).

Although there’s something savvy in the focus Riddler puts on the money as being the SOLE objective of the game maybe…?  Because it implies that, unlike with Grundy, a contestant that defeats Riddler will not overthrow him. Because even if you were to win you don’t become the new Riddler, the idea is that you just walk away with your cash. So it’s fixed in both the minds of the audience and of the contestants that Riddler is CONSTANT. He is to be their champion no matter what. 

So while Grundy may have been beloved by the Narrows, it was with an unspoken understanding that he was so only until someone better came along. Riddler at the Riddle Factory, however, was presented, on the contrary, as irreplaceable. 

The Riddle Factory in the comics was a lot more complex than in the show. It involved Riddler uncovering secrets of the rich and powerful (until he unluckily picks BRUCE WAYNE to be a contestant :p) and yes, it was an epic distraction to a more mundane heist plot. I’m gonna confess something horrific here though and say….. I didn’t actually like the story ALL THAT MUCH (god, Cory, I’m so sorry!), so I don’t remember enough details to properly compare. @vampirebillionaire would be able to help you more :)

(good question about the audience shouting out answers - I like to think Riddler established that as a punishable offence early on and anyone who tried had to suffer the Wheel of Misfortune themselves :p)

that was an interesting read!  (I should take a note to always go to your blog when there´s a scene where I can´t quite wrap my mind around it) 

A thought on Ed’s riddle answers about where Oswald was;

Having seen some answers to the riddles that other people have come up with - ‘narrow’ i.e. Narrows and ‘bones’ i.e. doctor i.e. Lee - I could kind of go for the explanation that giving those answers as riddles was a way to help him withstand the pain he was in.

Like, the basic, instinctive part of his mind wants to just answer the question and make the pain stop, while the conscious part of his mind doesn’t want to actually give Oswald’s location away. So instead of giving a straight answer, he comes up with riddles that there’s no way the Dentist or Sofia are going to be able to answer but which do technically answer the question. Thus satisfying the impulse to give his torturers what they want, and distracting himself enough that he can keep going through the pain without breaking down.

Yes!!! I do also think this coping mechanism is a way for him to gain some power back! He, or rather his body might be helpless and in their hands but they can´t touch his mind. He mocks them as stupid. He even gives them what they, want he does as they command him and answers their question but this is completely and utterly useless for them thus he´s in some way turning the situation around to one where he has control and power.  Also isn´t it also a pretty narcissistic “I´m better than you”? They might have him captured, they might torture him but that doesn´t matter because they are stupid and he´s not. He´s still better than them and thus “winning” this.  

I think I figured out Ed’s riddle.

“I can be done with the teeth, the eyes, or the mind. What am I?”

It’s narrow! Your teeth, eyes, and mind can be narrow.

“I can be humorous, but never funny. What am I?”

I don’t think the answer is narrow, but marrow. Perhaps that was word play?

So he was telling them where Oswald was, he just knew they were to stupid to figure it out.

Yep, narrow for the first, but the second I think is ‘bones’ (the humerus is a bone but the “funny bone” isn’t, it’s a nerve). Sawbones is an old word for a doctor, it’s why Doctor McCoy on Star Trek is called Bones. Oswald’s with the Doc in the Narrows.

omg why are you all so clever .. I didn´t even start to think about this ..... 

sry to jump into this but I´ve a guess .. under the cut

I was kind of bored so I did a photoshop of how Nygma might look as the true Riddler, based off this promotional image

do you like riddles?