editorialized torpedo

Even though this is true in a real sense and she hadn't been fair to her own daughters, even with Gael (when she reasonably had the more breadth to change after losing her other daughters) & even is responsible for one's death, I do also see how tirelessly she worked for women in Westeros and they do have some form of protection from noblemen because of Alicent's "Queen's Laws" (right of 1st night abolished and the Widow's Law). These are meaningful acts, even though they had less impact on Targ women directly than they did on peasant folk and other noblewomen.

Two things can be true at once; she clearly had a lot of power with Jaehaerys but what she most wanted to do--to raise the female heir apparent and have Jaehaerys' naming a girl when that opportunity arose--she found that she hit Jaehaerys' limit(s), saw how little she could do to really negate his power as the king/really understood the consequences of what being a Queen consort meant in terms of the unequal powers and subservience, and I think she was compelled more and more down the years, without really realizing it consciously, to anticipate and shape her own actions, words, and plans around what she knew and felt he'd approve or allow. Which in turn affected how she'd view her daughters and how she'd arrange their lives. We see how she's condescendingly treated by the maesters at Oldtown when she visits when she remarks that she'd like to see female maesters and how Jaehaerys never makes a comment to perhaps back her up. (Condescending because they obviously don't believe that women can be as smart as them even with one clearly being in front of their face; they probably thought of Alysanne as an exception.) ("Birth, Death , and Betrayal"):

It's quite obvious she felt more and more like she had no agency or control to do the actual things she wanted. I feel like there was most likely tiptoeing.

Yeah Jaehaerys said to Viserra that he doesn't interfere with Alysanne's decisions concerning marriages, but he says TWICE that Viserra's marriage to Theomore Manderly would be extremely beneficial to "the Iron Throne" ("Policy, Progeny, and Pain"):

...Alysanne wasn't blind or deaf to this, she herself went North to convince Alaric Stark to be more amicable towards Jaehaerys and was involved in the deal of the New Gift. Alysanne was acting for Jaehaerys' interests and then seemed to justify the wrong by making as if Viserra was disrupting the harmony of the family Alysanne is supposed to have the higher authority over (again, note that she probably felt more of her authority & agency as illusory) as both the mother and the Queen Consort. Her decision to marry Viserra off to Theomore specifically was greatly due to it being what Jaehaerys most wanted.

While she never lost courage to bring up things or confront Jaehaerys completely, she did this less and less over the years. She was always much more limited than Rhaenys, Alyssa Velaryon, & Visenya concerning politics. Perhaps she felt this and-- By how she reacts to the Braxton Beesbury duel and how she progressively gloms onto Gael--she simultaneously opted to distance herself from Jaehaerys more and more without really making big confrontations until it came to the head of Saera running away, Daella dying, Viserra dying...when things are too late.

It's a pattern for sure, but a pattern I think Alysanne didn't feel she could get out of. Ironically, it matches Rhaena's own pattern of being "too late" in regards to Alyssa Velaryon and Aerea Targaryen's deaths. Both of these women seem to burrow into their psychological "safe spaces" or coping mechanisms and eventually harm or isolate themselves from those closest to them because they are compelled to try to preserve the smallest sense of agency their privileges as dragonriding Queens in a dynasty quickly assimilated into Andal patriarchy allows.

So, kinda sure. Yes she was complicit. She made her choices, but those choices were made under social compelled personal compromises. So, not too too much on Alysanne so as to make her equal to Jaehaerys. She wasn't perfect by far and again, was responsible for her kids' deaths (Viserra and Gael and Daella) but she can't be called the same or motivated similarly as Jaehaerys was nor that her actions would have been what they were if she hadn't lived in the misogynist setting with a sexist husband she married at 13 as she did. Another perfectly flawed, misguided female character, one who really wanted to "change the world" but was confined by her gender-exclusive role. She did deserve that "Good Queen" title.

Ironically, one of the only reprieves Viserra would have had if she had married Theomore was the very widow's Law that Alysanne made sure became a thing. A small and perhaps unsatisfactory "compensation", considering. Or a lifeline? Shows us all the more the precarious state of married life for women and girls.

Anon is responding to either this post or this one. I offered in one of them that Alysanne married Viserra off to this old guy bc it was within Jaehaerys' interests to make sure Alaric Stark wasn't too hostile towards him for what happened to his older brother.

It's stated twice, BOTH by he himself, that it's better to draw the North closer to the throne through this marriage ("Policy, Progeny, & Pain"):

In one of those posts, too, I mentioned that it's very possible that Alysanne wanted to "contain" Viserra's ambitions following both Jaehaerys' desires to use them all as political pawns plus her own wariness towards her daughters' own ambitions conflicting with the crown's/Jaehaerys'. There was definitely the element of "protecting her son" in it (as I say in this tweet).

Anon is maybe responding to this recent post.

I read Viserra as more "she wasn't given a chance", as Saera, but she was less prone to take advantage of others as Saera was and therefore more likable. I didn't think of her as "impressive", but a little more comparatively more ethically responsible.

Don't get me wrong, Saera was definitely neglected & she deserved none of the brutality Jaehaerys emotionally inflicted on her. It's that in my first and all other readings of that moment, her hurting or almost harassing people plus the Maegor comment got to me and continues to get to me. Even with her obviously doing it all to get the feeling of being in control, and that being Jaehaerys & Alysanne's faults.

After all, even if we don't like Jaehaerys, Rhaena was forced to marry this man & he killed the 2nd Aegon--Jaehaerys & Alysanne's oldest brother.

Still, this doesn't justify imprisonment and forcing her to watch as you murder one of the only people she seemed to get close to (enough, considering). The "punishment" was more about expressing anger, saving political and machismo faces, reaffirming his control over her body violently, and revenge. Not about guidance towards autonomous ethical action nor protecting her.

On her own, Viserra was a teenage girl who happened to be beautiful & who should have been allowed to grow into her own, the bare minimum. The same goes for Saera.

So, yes, simultaneously, Viserra had nothing serious to apologize for, nothing to be "redeemed" for.

Anon is maybe responding to this recent post. They also refer to this quote from "Policy, Progeny, and Pain":

Yes, Viserra may have (likely) developed a crush on her brother Baelon as the last anon supposes, but you, anon, are right I think to point out that she actually decides to "lock ties" only when she's about to be shipped off and neither parent relents or rethink it after she protests. Her getting nude and drunk were acts of desperation as the text/court rumor explicitly clues us in on, to escape this unwanted and undesirable marriage:

The word "rescue" is used. you pointed out another thing Alysanne and Viserra shared, Alysanne and Viserra both appealed to the agent who could get them out of an unwanted marriage--Aly, Jae, and Viserra, these two. Wish I remembered!

If we're saying "right thing" as in "one of the most direct or straitlaced ways she could get herself out", yes. If we're talking "ethically", no bc I don't know if there is an ethical basis in asking your dad to free you from a marriage he allows that puts ethical responsibility on you.