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@horizon-verizon / horizon-verizon.tumblr.com

she/her -- ASoIaF Enthusiast -- (I will be changing the title of this blog frequently just because I want to)

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Anonymous asked:

I’m going to collapse if they make Rhaenyra hate her teenage stepdaughter because of an accident and things that weren’t in her power while she spends half of season two forgiving the people who stole her throne and murdered her son.

Funny, bc it used to be people pointing out how she included the girls in the council and that even she's stopping a cycle in its tracks from when Viserys refused to really be in his council/have more political activity back in S1 epi10. So it's either that this is a major inconsistency (another out of many) OR they purposefully wrote Rhaenyra to only regard her stepdaughters as her "assistants" more than family-subjects from this moment on.

@rhaenin-time writes in this post's comments about them likely making Rhaenyra's later "madeness" into a more shocking spectacle by making her turn against Rhaena under the context of Rhaenyra turning against Rhaena nonsensical even for the show.

#asoiaf asks to me #rhaena of pentos #rhaenyra targaryen #rhaena targaryen #hotd critical #hotd leaks #hotd comment #hotd misogynoir #hotd inconsistencies #hotd writing #asoiaf #hotd #hotd episode 10 #hotd predictions

horizon-verizon

Anonymous asked:

At one point during the fight, Rhaenyra said to Daemon “and afterward, when I thought it meet to consider the terms our foes put before us.”

Those terms literally included taking Aegon and Viserys hostages. Daemon is so evil and cruel for not wanting his sons to be raised as HOSTAGES.

Does show Rhaenyra actually care about her children ? Or is she ready to put them all down herself for the sake of her made up friendship with the woman who is the reason she lost everything who had a hand in it ?

I think Daemon should just take his sons (including Jace and Joffrey) and daughters and run to Essos.

Yes, they did include that. And that fucking page...

#asoiaf asks to me #hotd s2 epi2 #hotd episode 10 #rhaenyra and daemon #hotd writing #hotd comment #alicent's page #daemon targaryen #hotd characterization #hotd #asoiaf

horizon-verizon

Anonymous asked:

Lucerys went to Storm’s End to deliver Rhaenyra’s message, he insisted he would bring Borros’ reply to the QUEEN, Lucerys basically died for his mother’s claim and she repays him by trying to make up with his murderers ? That’s sociopathic.

Rhaenyra agreed to send her son as an envoy for the sake of her throne which she apparently doesn’t want and then she begs his murderers for peace ? Why did she let him go then ? Did she sacrifice him ? For what exactly ? She spat into her dead son’s face, she worries about her PR but not her son's sacrifice.

This ask accusing Rhaenrya as being sociopathic is part of why I simply don't emotionally/morally engage at face value (as in these are "real" or well realized character) with this show as much as a lot of other people in the asoiaf fandom do. I do engage as critically (analytically) as I can AND use some scenes as evidence against fandom sexism. The clear misunderstanding and trying to fix characters into roles that don't make sense for their arcs in this story of the Dance undermines too much of the HotD story for me to remain Watsonian about it.

Bec it is not "Rhaenyra" that is sociopathic. It is the sexist writing breeding inconsistency after inconsistency for the character as well as the entire list of circumstances--how kinslaying seems no big deal and how it seems no big deal that Aemond commits this taboo and thus removing a critical layer to why the blacks go to war to answer such a tragedy (this layer that is already on top of how they usurped her).

Though she'd be a valid character if she had been adapted/created for some other appropriate story, FOR THIS ONE and for the relationship she has w/Daemon, she simply doesn't make any sense (the reasoning for war, her kids dying and little response or exploration of that versus her trying to do what Viserys thinks...the guy who ruled pretty poorly, etc.) and is horribly, sexistly written so that they can get as many people--who are not really weighing what the point of her character was in the Dance story or truly care to understand the very basics of misogyny--to like her character. Which itself tells us something abt our world--women over male characters of fiction and perhaps real life need to be morally upright in order for the sexist violence to matter or even be defined as sexist. (Catelyn Stark of ASoIaF is a character who has her flaws but also her valid reasons for how she acts. Margarey of GoT is not sincere to smallfolk, but we can't count her as evil for it. ETC.)

That the motive behind her usurpation and eventual murder was greedy sexism. Then entire reason why Viserys is king is bc of sexism and the Targs succession rules not having been solofoed in terms of which royal has a superseding claim than the other since Aenys and Maegor. Many Targ men actively blocked their female counterparts or children or others' children to strengthen their own claim in the eyes of the Andal-Westerosi descents they were ruling and assimilating into for the ease of said rule.

Therefore yes, the Dance happened bc of misogyny/you can never remain that misogyny played a small role in it happening.

Part of the reason--but not the only reason--she fights for the throne is bc she wants payback for her sons' deaths/punish the greens/not have Luke-Jace die from nothing at all.

This is the same woman who marries Daemon Targaryen bc she is like him in the ferocity, prideful way as well as wanted him for his loyalty and willingness to go that far for her, their family/kids, and her crown. It was actually rather cheap for HotD to portray a Rhaenyra who is conflicted over: some sort of payback for Luke's death thru Blood & Cheese vs the horror of Helaena's grief and pain as a mother herself. A sort of reckoning that she may or may not accept and how far does she actually "accept"? THIS, I argue, would have been far more interesting bc of the layers to it all that reminds me of ebing close to any other Gothic narrative...and this is more of a Gothic couple than they aren't.

This also goes into how the focus of her distrust of him is somehow whether he's trying to rule through her instead of self control. It appears a fine line--bc some might think if she actually cared to follow directions or lead, he wouldn't fly off the handle or go behind their backs or do stuff like "heir for a day", so it has to be him wanting the throne for himself sincerely, and that is all...no love. Again, that is what she was arguing he was trying to do in the actual S2 E2 episode, when she says that he is just trying to use her name to do what he wanted against the Hightowers/Otto/his enemies.

When we have already hashed this bit out AND Rhaenyra (if we say she is very careful and deliberate when it comes to her kids' safety) would not have endangered her 3 boys if it were obviously true Daemon was gunning for them for himself...also, his daughters were marrying those boys so he does have stake in the line even with Jacaerys ruling bc he'd have ruling grandkids through him. So no, it didn't make sense, her concerns.

Not unless we reason that:

this Rhaenyra is simply not the same Rhaenyra as the book canon, and thus her relationship with Daemon simply makes no sense on screen as the writers wrote her/them
we recognize that the writers contradict epi 2, epi 7, epi 8 (all where she obviously understands him and puts trusts him not try to get the throne from/through her or harm her again NOT abt his emotional control) while remembering Daemon suddenly choke her out in epi 10 (which didn't make sense itself bc of those episodes I listed)

*7/14/24* I guess we could argue that Rhaenyra was more trying to address his tendency to leave her when things get too hard by accusing him of cold ambition (as an expression from the fear that he only wants her for power since he didn't bother to help her out at least 2x before, so this is her taking an opportunity to draw him into it and express that fear)...again, this doesn't make much sense when this show has made us believe that they had rather very peaceful and happy and fulfilled days on Dragonstone from S1 E8! This is a pre-marriage argument or at least an argument had either before Rhaenyra proposes to him--thus the argument is her confronting him before she ties herself to him--OR it's had in the first two years when he does something nasty or sus and she confronts him. It's not an argument that one has 6 years after marriage and raising 6 children and seemingly completely satisfied with one's partner WITHOUT HAVING ALREADY WRITTEN MULTIPLE SCENES SHOWING/ESTABLISHING SOMETHING LIKE A MISUNDERSTANDING THAT HOLDS A LOT OF TENSION BETWEEN THEM BEFORE THIS ARGUMENT! It should have been built into to make any modicum of sense. *END*

So yeah, even though I liked the acting and energy of the fight, I didn't care for Rhaenyra's argument w/Daemon. and it isn't actually Rhaenyra nor does their Rhaenyra make any sense, so I don't care to actually engage with this show that much or take it as a serious project. It's their cluster fuck of a character they made to draw in people who can't handle dark or morally questionable female character OR genuinely don't grasp what an unreliable narrator is:

horizon-verizon

Anonymous asked:

The problem with trying to "flesh" Helaena out by making her Cassandra of Troy is that she can't be Cassandra of Troy because the role has already been taken - by DAEMON.

Pfft.

#asoiaf asks to me #daemon targaryen #helaena targaryen #hotd episode 10 #hotd characterization

horizon-verizon reblogged

rhaenyragendereuphoria

PSA on #chokegate

(CW: abuse apology, abuse denial, promotion of risky acts and behaviors, romanticizing abuse, victim-blamimg and toxic edgy posturing.)

Some of you need to understand that your prioritizing of daemyra above all else (above Rhaenyra and other fans) just because you really want to fuck Daemon or Matt Smitt is getting increasingly fucking disturbing:

You're throwing Rhaenyra under the bus. Maybe you like Daemon and Matt Smitt more but I don't. I'm in this for Rhaenyra, Milly and Emma.
You're showing serious signs of Stockholm syndrome in your delusions.
It doesn't fucking matter if it was "just the first time", or if "he was obviously upset", or if "he didn't mean to hurt her". It would be bad enough if he had just suddenly grabbed her and let go, but he held on and squeezed for 25 seconds. And yes, that will physically hurt (see links below) and emotionally hurt.
"It wasn't even a choke." It was. "It wasn't a violent grab." It was. I can't see this as violent." Good for you, but it was.
"It didn't even bruise so it can't be that bad" - are you kidding me? Like are you legit kidding me?
"Daemon is a sadist but not an abuser" - get the hell away from me. Words have meanings. If you mean sadist in the traditional sense, then yes obviously a sadist is abusive and an abuser is sadistic. (Also Daemon isn't sadistic? He murders swiftly and impulsively, sometimes with political motivation - but then that's machiavellian not sadistic. Cersei is sadistic. Ramsey is sadistic.) If you mean sadist in the diluted kinky way, then it's still bad, because that's bad kink.
Even if it was a kinky sex scene they had butchered in editing, it's a horrible backwards way to depict kink + it's actually dangerous + it doesn't even make sense for them to have sex so soon after she literally miscarried a rather big fetus.
I knew choking had become increasingly normalized, sometimes worryingly so, but some of the reactions I've read since the episode leaked are fucking disturbing and concerning. Choking, or breath play, is edgeplay. It's not something you do with a first-time hook-up. It's not something you do without discussing it first. You need to build trust. And it is not, EVER, "no big deal" or, worse, "vanilla". It can cause severe damage. Even seasoned kinksters will avoid it because it can never be entirely safe (doesn't fall under "safe, sane, and consensual" or SSC) and has inevitable risks (which falls under "risk-aware consensual kink" or RACK). It's painfully obvious that you don't actually know what you're talking about, so stop spreading misinformation about kink.
Also: stop saying things like "this isn't real choking" because you went through "worse" either consensually or non-consensually. You're not "actually more hardcore" because the scene didn't upset you. People have the right to be upset and -gasp!- triggered. This isn't a fucking contest.
Yes, it's "real choking", it's "really" what DV can look like, and overanalyzing their reactions and body language ("she sneered", "she didn't look that upset", "he was teary-eyed", "she could talk fine after", "she didn't attack him back", etc.) to deny the reality of the violence we've seen is vile. You're just gaslighting yourself and everybody else. Stop doing that, and learn to respect yourselves for fuck's sake.
On this subject, people going "well you should have known it'd end like this, what did you expect?" sound just as vile because this is literally victim-blaming rhetoric. I can want to see them being evil together, and not want to see that. Yes, he murdered his first wife (swiftly). Yes, they conspired to fake a murder and Daemon did murder a servant (who aristocrats don't think of as people anyway). Does that mean he will automatically jump from this to choking her? No! It doesn't have to! Human behavior is complex! Both in fiction and reality!
This isn't about the whole "does fiction affect reality or not" debate: it's not so much the scene itself but the discourse around it that's spreading terrible ideas and having people potentially internalize harmful messages. That needs to be adressed.
Because ultimately the scene itself, as is, doesn't matter: it doesn't make any sense to talk about character motivations or say "there were signs" and try to find logic in this mess because they're not real people and they're terribly written. The fault lies with the writing and editing teams who seem to be warring from within and with each other and can't decide on one fucking characterization.
HBO won't fix it or make it better. They never fucking cared, and they never will.

If you're gonna excuse this scene with these honestly terrifying arguments that impact how people think of DV, AND if you're gonna romanticize and gif this scene or wave-weave stills of it to frame it as some normal angsty relationship drama, get the fuck away from me.

#HotD choking scene #HotD episode 10 #HotD comment #hotd critical #daemon targaryen #rhaenyra targaryen #rhaenyra and daemon #HotD writing #HotD fandom #fandom critical #Sex and kinks #ASoIaF fav posts

horizon-verizon

Anonymous asked:

I'm confused about something so I thought maybe you or even someone else could clear it up for me.

Maybe it's because I didn't like any of the characterization, themes, and lore that were handled in the first season of hotd - so I gave up on it completely and basically view it as a bad fanfic adaptation - but I genuinely cannot understand how everyone suddenly pull out the pitchforks over that clips with daemyra and the most likely DV scene that will follow.

Daemon was never a "great" guy in the show. He abandoned rhaenyra in the brothels, dragged her reputation to his brother, choked her after her miscarriage because his ego got bruised, wasn't honest with mysaria, dismissed Laena when she expressed being unhappy, was a deadbeat father to his daughters etc

The only "good" scenes he had with Rhaenyra were in the driftmark trial episode because that was the closest to seeing him and rhaenyra acting as a united front, so I can't understand the sudden outrage when from s1 his character was already setup to being a scumbag.

And don't get me wrong, I know he isn't like this in the book. I know the show suffers from a horrendous writing. My surprise is people needing a new 2 seconds clip to have the epiphany

The only "good" scenes he had with Rhaenyra were in the driftmark trial episode because that was the closest to seeing him and rhaenyra acting as a united front, so I can't understand the sudden outrage when from s1 his character was already setup to being a scumbag.

I have been speaking about how I prefer bk!Daemyra over show!Daemyra for months (bc both are written in so much bad faith to diminish female agency and ambition) and I was shocked at the video not bc I don't expect the abuse from episode 10 to get worse or continue but because all of a sudden I was publicly proven right when I have been screaming for months!

But you asked about why some people were totally taken aback. That's because there was still a lot who bought into the whole "the two sides are evil, it doesn't matter why the war began" shit. Truly and duly. Some assume that the writers of the show were always acting in good faith while writing their version of the story just because they said they were trying to not be like GoT and make a feminist retelling. Because they don't understand the principle of benevolent sexism or try to. They didn't take Condal that seriously that first time, connect it to how it was only possible bc Rhaenyra or subscribed to it and never thought he'd write Daemyra "that far", esp with how many more tender and violence-less/stress scenes the two had together on screen.

Like if you count how many scenes Rhaenyra has with Daemon that are purely tender or self affirming, it'd be a little more than with either Viserys and Alicent while making sense (bc Alicent with Rhaenrya at the Sept didn't make any sense to be called "positive"). Or consistently leaning positive before epi 10. Some already knew and acknowledged that Daemon was not a "great guy, but" sat in their comfort zones, seeing that these two seemed to be each other's "haven" of sorts, not paying attention to much else and misunderstood these two. It's like when people ship show!Louis and Lestat so hard they forget that these two made a vampire child to fix their relationship or sense of selves and are angry, surprised and shocked when that vampire child begins to act out, go on a rebellious killing spree, resents them for it, and tries to kill one of them. And I ship bk!Dameyra, btw...just not at the expense of Rhaenyra or even Daemon, bc she was def in the wrong for trying to kill Nettles & misjudged Daemon. And if Daemon had doen anything to Rhaenyra, the greens, septons, maesters all would have broadcasted that shit...yet we get silence...

They understood the "twin flame"-y, they-understand-each-other-and-are-the-same aspect of the orig story and those scenes...so after epi 10, they also hoped the choking scene was a fluke of sorts. Bc reasons below.

Others don't want to think much about these characters and either use this as an excuse not to, they they just want to consume the story thorough the show, or have read the books and just wanted to maintain their joy levels with how much they loved the show.

Some wanted to really give the show the benefit of the doubt so they can continue watching it, some don't want to know/brianwashed out of knowing what DV looks like, or undermines it anyway.

Some argue that because Daemon has an ego issue and so he's always going to blow up on people. true to an extent--no canon proof of it affecting Rhaenyra or his girls, though...so...HotD did cross a boundary.

Some refused to think about why people hated episode 10, some have even said it was just part of Daemyra's semi-erotic back-and-forth dynamic (even thought Rhaenrya was clearly not ready or expecting Daemon's choking her out and tried to get herself out of it). Same people might also say that Rhaenyra "giving it back to him" with rubbing it in his face how he didn't know abt the prophecy was "enough" to invalidate the domestic abuse of the scene.

Some were really caught up in Daemon's idgaf attitude. Don't get me wrong, i love a character like this...but if they have the stuff to back it up and have a line.

Some "pulled out the pitchforks" to say, "I told you so" about how the show is writing against Daemon [✋🏿guilty] and Rhaenyra sexistly, but that comes with no real surprise on their part. Others to say they always knew Daemon was the devil and how tb or Rhaenyra defenders are stupid idiots for saying the greens had no right to the throne, how Rhaenrya was "weak", etc.

I'm sure there's more, but i forget.

#asoiaf asks to me #daemon targaryen #daemon's characterization #hotd characterization #hotd choking scene #hotd episode 10 #rhaenyra and daemon #rhaenyra targaryen

horizon-verizon reblogged

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Anonymous asked:

We already knew HOTD was HELLBENT on making Daemon the toxic and abusive villain but this is a new low

https://x.com/daenerysim/status/1793840855914320068

horizon-verizon answered:

Oh HELL NO!!! [first in a series of links and posts abt the trailers people, inclu me, went mad for]

Pack it up. The nightmare is here.

horizon-verizon

Wrote about this back in MARCH, under an ask to another person discussing the 10th episode and the choking scene.

#hotd episode 10 #rhaenyra and daemon #rhaenyra targaryen #daemon targaryen #hotd characterization #daemon's characterization #rhaenyra's characterization #hotd featurette #hotd trailers #hotd choking scene #rhaenin-time

horizon-verizon

Anonymous asked:

The fact that Alicent’s stans deluded themselves into thinking that she’s the reason Rhaenyra wasn’t beset by assassins in episode 9 and did something because she raised her voice to someone but the moment her father talked to Lord Westerling she remained in silence, it was his refusal that saved Rhaenyra, not Alicent.

And sending terms for Rhaenyra to deliver her toddler sons to live under Aegon II’s sadistic will as hostages is hardly defending Rhaenyra or doing any good to her, that’s fucking miserable, it’s insane how y’all believe that those terms were good, it’s awful on the show and on the book.

I get it now Alicent spent 10 years harassing and tormenting Rhaenyra and her underage children, openly saying she wanted her father there to take her side even tho she knew her wishes meant exile or even death to Rhaenyra because she was trying to influence the inevitable and protect Rhaenyra, true love 😍

Delusion--sometimes they are fun, harmless birds caressing us into safety, other times it's a steel band slowly starving us of or own intellect.

What really irks me are the damn terms being mischaracterized as harmless stipulations as if the greens (Alicent & Otto) are far more likely to be uncharitable to Rhaenyra's children than the reverse.

[Regardless of truebornness or illegitimacy, bc w/their regard for those not-illegitimate kids when they did live at the keep, they already showed they don't care all that much for how young and vulnerable and worthy of protection a child is; Daemon is more or less under rhaenyra's thumb and no I do not care about the choking scene bc no it is NOT even consistent with DaemonxRhaenyra--if they wanted to establish Daemon was abusive towards her, they should have shown scenes of him intimidating her or something in episodes 7-8! so I do not even think of this scene as HotD "canon" and you cannot convince me otherwise! just as I do not think Criston is Dornish in the show no matter what Alicent said or what he looked like--esp since if he was Dornish, it's far more likely he'd still look pale bc the northernest Dornish--the "stony" Dornish as Daeron I later calls them--are paler people who look your "typical" Westerosi..the Martells' looks are not ubiquitous in Dorne! Write better, and then I'll perhaps respect your storytelling.]

And while there are some sweet and rational rhaenicent shippers out there, the ship simply never made sense in the way that it was written in the show. Their development as close friends was never shown, and for how different they are, it needed to be shown! Especially with:

how Alicent really didn't seem to understand Rhaenyra as a person for her to act as she does in the Sept episode and attempting to reinforce "girls don't involve themselves with the politics of men" despite Rhaenyra being the freaking heir // while this is happening, Alicent visiting the king, with there being no sign of even hesitance , guilt, or desire to tell Rhaenyra about it--similar to how Criston should have known Rhaenyra would never leave with him and abandon her family or "duty" or the prospect of becoming the first queen of Westeros after years of everyone's doubt (2)
how she uses her queenly-stepmotherly authority over her (3)
how she continues this in her approach to her in that "queenly" way, accusing Rhaenyra PLUS the implication of her disapproving of her actions despite having to have known how Rhaenyra has felt Viserys has shunted her for most of her life....(4)

From the beginning, alicent has been too much of a ruler-follower to appeal to rhaenyra AND she has thought that for rhaenyra to be happy or at least content with her life, she must also conform to the obedient social rules of feminine conduct--ignoring any presence of inner conflict Rhaenyra has had or pondering over it.

#asoiaf asks to me #alicent hightower #alicent's characterization #hotd characterization #alicent stans #fandom critical #hotd fandom #hotd episode 10 #hotd episode 9 #rhaenicent #hotd critical #otto hightower

horizon-verizon

Otto: I come at the behest of the Dowager Queen Alicent, mother of King Aegon, Second of His Name, Lord and Protector of the Seven Kingdoms. I've been directed to deliver her message only to Princess Rhaenyra. Where is the Princess? [Her arrival on Syrax] Otto: King Aegon Targaryen, Second of His Name... in his wisdom and desire for peace, is offering terms. Acknowledge Aegon as king and swear obeisance before the Iron Throne. In exchange, His Grace will confirm your possession of Dragonstone. It will pass to your trueborn son, Jacaerys, upon your death. Lucerys will be confirmed as the legitimate heir to Driftmark and all the lands and holdings of House Velaryon. Your sons by Prince Daemon will also be given places of high honor at court, Aegon the Younger as the King's squire, Viserys as his cupbearer. Finally, the King, in his good grace, will pardon any knight or lord who conspired against his ascent. Daemon: I would rather feed my sons to the dragons than have them carry shields and cups for your drunken, usurper cսոt of a king. Otto: Aegon Targaryen sits the Iron Throne. He wears the Conqueror's crown, wields the Conqueror's sword, has the Conqueror's name. He was anointed by a septon of the Faith before the eyes of thousands. Every symbol of legitimacy belongs to him. And then there is Stark, Tully, Baratheon. Houses that have also received, and are at present, considering generous terms from their king. Rhaenyra: Stark, Tully, and Baratheon all swore to me when King Viserys named me his heir. Otto: Stale oaths will not put you on the Iron Throne, Princess. The succession changed the day your father sired a son. I only regret that you and he were the last to see the truth of it. Rhaenyra: You are no more Hand than Aegon is king. [throwing the Hand pendant] Fսcking traitor. Otto: Grand Maester. Daemon: What the fսck is this? Otto: [handing the infamous page to Rhaenyra] Queen Alicent has not forgotten the love you once had for each other. No blood need be spilled. The realm can carry on in peace. Queen Alicent eagerly awaits your answer. Daemon: She can have her answer now, stuffed in her father's mouth along with his withered cock. Let's end this mummer's farce. Ser Erryk, bring me Lord Hightower so I may take the pleasure myself. Rhaenyra: No. King's Landing will have my answer on the morrow.

#hotd scripts #hotd episode 10 #hotd #asoiaf #asoiaf quotes #rhaenyra targaryen #otto hightower #daemon targaryen

horizon-verizon reblogged

Even Matt and Emma shared my confusion over the choking scene

Emma laughing about it then deleting the post

#hotd episode 10 #hotd actors #hotd critical #hotd #hotd season 1 #asoiaf #hotd meme

horizon-verizon reblogged

Among the reasons I don't trust that the writers of HotD understand the story they're trying to tell is that even with the baffling changes made to darken his character, Daemon is the only one talking sense in Episode 10 and yet it's clear the writers don't want you to think that.

This!!! The whole episode, I felt insane. It’s some sort of storytelling gaslighting.

Especially early on! Daemon, so malicious in his… sending ravens to allies, securing their stronghold, and ensuring the new heir is sworn to by their strongest line of personal defense.

The thing that also gets me is that we, the audience, know that Otto was planning on having them all killed and that he wasn’t able to was essentially luck. So I guess the lesson is “always trust to chance and inherently non-violent womenfolk”.

The thing is, Rhaenyra told him she wanted him to protect her when she proposed to him. It was her main justification for their marriage. In his mind, he's just doing exactly what she asked him to do. What she married him so he would do.

And since their book!banishment from Court doesn't seem to apply, the only explanation for them staying away from Court is that Rhaenyra did not feel safe there. Because she didn't feel safe there. It's the reason they left only a few days prior. Because there's no way it didn't occur to everyone on both sides that with Rhaenyra having both the official title and more dragons, the only way the Greens could be confident they'd win the throne is by assassination.

Make it make sense!

Oh wait. They can't. Because they're bending the story around plot points they can't change. But they had to give her someone to rage at to keep her labour scene because it's one of the iconic book moments, and they for some reason decided she can't just rage at Alicent. Because it's not Daemon who takes advantage of her indisposal to seize power. It's Alicent.

So now Daemon is "ruling through fear" by ensuring the Queensguard won't assassinate them or deliver their secrets to the Greens. And Jace is a mini-Daemon because he gets rightfully angry when Aemond, whom he knows is dangerous, continues to weaponize bigotry and lethal claims?

There's just so much weird messaging. And I don't just mean bad storytelling. I mean... there are some troubling ideologies behind these writing decisions.

ALL OF THIS.

So much of Rhaenyra and Daemon’s relationship revolves around Viserys, and in her proposal, Rhaenyra gives Daemon something he’s always wanted and never got from his brother: trust that he will protect their family and a stated mission for him to do so. The turn away from this was hugely abrupt not only as a book reader, expecting iconic scenes like the book Black war council or Rhaenyra’s anger at the Greens during her labor, but as a show viewer who just watched episodes 6-8.

Re: troubling ideologies. I always go back to the infamous D&D quote: “Themes are for 8th grade book reports.” As a writer, if you don’t think through what you’re writing, what you’re saying, you end up with some weird ass themes and messaging, sometimes accidentally. And in this case, their changes make the story nearly incomprehensible and their overall ideologies pretty damning.

#hotd episode 10 #daemon targaryen #rhaenyra targaryen #hotd critical #hotd writing #hotd inconsistencies #hotd

horizon-verizon reblogged

Among the reasons I don't trust that the writers of HotD understand the story they're trying to tell is that even with the baffling changes made to darken his character, Daemon is the only one talking sense in Episode 10 and yet it's clear the writers don't want you to think that.

This!!! The whole episode, I felt insane. It’s some sort of storytelling gaslighting.

Especially early on! Daemon, so malicious in his… sending ravens to allies, securing their stronghold, and ensuring the new heir is sworn to by their strongest line of personal defense.

The thing that also gets me is that we, the audience, know that Otto was planning on having them all killed and that he wasn’t able to was essentially luck. So I guess the lesson is “always trust to chance and inherently non-violent womenfolk”.

The thing is, Rhaenyra told him she wanted him to protect her when she proposed to him. It was her main justification for their marriage. In his mind, he's just doing exactly what she asked him to do. What she married him so he would do.

And since their book!banishment from Court doesn't seem to apply, the only explanation for them staying away from Court is that Rhaenyra did not feel safe there. Because she didn't feel safe there. It's the reason they left only a few days prior. Because there's no way it didn't occur to everyone on both sides that with Rhaenyra having both the official title and more dragons, the only way the Greens could be confident they'd win the throne is by assassination.

Make it make sense!

Oh wait. They can't. Because they're bending the story around plot points they can't change. But they had to give her someone to rage at to keep her labour scene because it's one of the iconic book moments, and they for some reason decided she can't just rage at Alicent. Because it's not Daemon who takes advantage of her indisposal to seize power. It's Alicent.

So now Daemon is "ruling through fear" by ensuring the Queensguard won't assassinate them or deliver their secrets to the Greens. And Jace is a mini-Daemon because he gets rightfully angry when Aemond, whom he knows is dangerous, continues to weaponize bigotry and lethal claims?

There's just so much weird messaging. And I don't just mean bad storytelling. I mean... there are some troubling ideologies behind these writing decisions.

#jacaerys velaryon #daemon targaryen #rhaenyra targaryen #alicent hightower #hotd episode 10 #hotd writing #book vs tv comparisons #asoiaf fav posts

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Final Thoughts on Show!Rhaenys before We Get into the Second Season

I'm not hopeful about Rhaenys in season 2 because the trailer showed us that she'd be sticking to her "no war" and "anti-emotions" agenda even after Luke's death and our knowledge of who Otto is/his emotional influence on Alicent.

I clearly see show!Rhaenys became as bitter as she was. Despite her father-- Prince Aemon--having been the named and official heir plus her being his only surviving child, she was automatically, technically, his heir as well. But because Jaehaerys I didn't believe women should rule like a man AND worried that there would be a civil conflict between Viserys' supporters (namely Daemon) & the Velaryons-Baratheons (Jocelyn Baratheon was Rhaenys' mother and was alive at the time), he decided to use an election knowing how it would go to place a universally uncontested male heir. Show!Rhaenys and dbk!Rhaenys were, some argue, a better fit for the throne by character. It would so likely make any person, woman, resentful of her lot & thus express her resentment...

But the issue is that show!Rhaenys is too cynical & she decides to take it out o the wrong person, the person who is probably the least responsible for her position and the person who is more vulnerable to such expressions at that moment. To the point where she's passive-aggressively trying to discourage a good thing (Rhaenyra believing she could be Queen) when she tells Rhaenyra that men would "sooner" destroy the realm than "see" a woman on the throne. This isn't advice, it's her bitterness being expressed, because she doesn't ever follow up with how Rhaenyra can constructively begin to come up with any strategies.

Because yes, things ARE different for Rhaenyra. Viserys made her his OFFICIAL, declared heir. Rhaenys was never that. Viserys also never called for any Great Council, he relied on the already extant custom that the King's word was Law to justify his choosing Rhaenyra.

Men will never accept ANY woman, so I (Rhaenyra) do what I must anyway.

In the context of a woman having to become Queen in a patriarchal world where there literally ever has been a Queen regnant, Doylistically, why is this woman who the show is saying is supposed to be strong of character or will submitting to patriarchal will wholeheartedly and trying to get Rhaenyra to?!!! Okay, so men will not accept me...am I supposed to just lie down and accept that when I DO have an opportunity to rule anyway, which Viserys/the Monarch, allowed me? "That's how it is"...okay, so bc that's how it is, I should just do nothing at all to improve my place?

It's not smart as people claimed, it's not insightful. It's you putting us all against a wall & saying you shouldn't even try to cross bc you'll fail. It's an ingredient to anti-progress, anti constructivism.

Rhaenys was also absolutely being hypocritical with Alicent in episode 9 about "windows" in prisons, because she has not really protested against Corlys sending off their daughter to be married off at 12 purely for his own ambitions like Otto.

You are wiser than I believed you to be, Alicent Hightower. A true queen counts the cost to her people. And yet you toil still in service to men. Your father, your husband, your son. You desire not to be free, but to make a window in the wall of your prison. Have you never imagined yourself on the Iron Throne? I'll leave you with your thoughts.

She has done what I already described to Rhaenyra in episode 2. And she says to Corlys she's over not having been chosen...yet says what she says how she says about the lords never going to accept her in episode 2.

And while being anti-war for "the realm", she also kills dozens of smallfolk bc "it's not my war"...but the greens can use this as an excuse against her, Rhaenyra, and the blacks to open the war and make themselves look that much more righteous! (Rhaenyra is still close r to the blacks than "neutral" through Baela & Rhaena) So is she really that careful or conscientious even in her goal for there to be no war?!

If Rhaenys meant "realm" as both nobles & peasants, she has a funny way of showing her concern for "the realm". If not and she just meant nobles, is she really all that wise or compassionate?!

But Rhaenys in the show is made not to see any of that. You can say she's "keeping it real", but sometimes you stifle your own hopes so you cannot see possible paths to the thing you want to accomplish or change. Therefore, show!Rhaenys is actually being very blind & close minded.

It reminds me of some people's tendency to say "I'm just being real" (not so much Rhaenys but the justifications for her behavior towards Rhaenyra) & being nihilistic or over-cynical kinda places us back to square one, the place where we stay victimized by the status quo.

I mean, think of how if people had just accepted "that's just how it is", we'd still have legal segregation, women wouldn't be able to vote or own their own properties or have their own bank cards w/o having to get paper permits from their dads & husbands into the 70s!!!

Show!Rhaenys' particular brand of bitterness (that some of us have misidentified as "truthtelling"), if allowed to be totally justified can serve to reaffirm oppressive status quos.

Which is why I just prefer book!Rhaenys, who many have pointed out was not bloodthirsty but merely thinking of a ruthless strategy and eager to protect her own interests & those that she loved. Because no matter what either show or book Rhaenys wanted, war was definitely coming for not just Daemon & Rhaenyra, but Baela and Rhaena. They are Daemon's daughters no matter who their supposed host was [HotD, Baela is Rhaenys' & Corlys' ward], how would the greens just ignore them?!! Baela is very much like her father, by the evidence and I'm sure Rhaena would also not just abandon Daemon or Rhaenyra, not having had been close to them for years and Daemon literally being their father who has raised them with real love since both were born.

To clear up some misunderstandings about the original book, no one at the black council believed for a second that greens wouldn't come for them or were really "warmongers":

The greens would have never let go of the people they usurped (Rhaenyra & her kids) who could come back at any moment to oust them...that's how usurpations usually go. Look at Robert with Dany and Rhaegar's children!

["The Blacks and the Greens"] -- further proof of greens' intentions against the blacks

Rhaenys says this ("The Blacks and the Greens"):

Bk!Daemon was actually the one practicing some caution, against a full front attack on KL. (Something bk!Rhaenys advocated for.) BUT like Rhaenys, Daemon in the OG story wasn't against a war. Not because he is he's "turned a new leaf" against violence and being an actual, non-playful menace just for the fun of it (which was never his character), but so he can protect his family...proven by how before he speaks, we have Rhaenyra worry over the fates of her sons going into battle in Rhaenys' suggestion. Bc again, the war was nearly inevitable, and definitely became so after Lucerys' death.

Bk!Daemon knew how hard it'd be to fight against actual dragons. He specifically wanted them to use them as a last resort & first send letters to different lords to get them to show their allegiances & prepare for war, fight under Rhaenyra's name. And so they knew who to watch out for.

["The Blacks and the Greens"] -- Black council, Daemon's Words

Corlys was also not anti-war, he was anti-full blaze attack on KL bc it would destroy the things they were fighting for.

["The Blacks and the Greens"] -- Black council, Corlys Disagreeing w/Rhaenys

So Daemon & Rhaenys' roles are almost switched for the show, and this reveals another layer of how the show seeks to subdue their female characters into parrots and puppets of men around them for the male gaze, turn them into something "nonthreatening" & more influenced by men's wills & ambitions than they had been in the book. [xenonwitch]

I say "almost" because the show was anti war vs "go-go-go" instead of the book's full attack on KL vs dragons-as last-resort.

Doesn't matter that the scenes where Baela tries to get Rhaenys to see that were deleted, this situation exists without any of their permission, consent, will, etc. Book!Rhaneys has the sense to not try to deny or hide from it. No one tried.

No, show!Rhaenys doesn't offer very good things, nor is "wise" as people claim she is. "Wise" is different from "clever", and claiming that this iteration of Rhaenys was "wise" really just positions this discouragement of actual action and seizure of opportunity for an event where else-time didn't or couldn't happen is categorically unwise!! And a way to re-affirm patriarchal license of suppressed female ambition or rage.

#rhaenys targaryen's characterization (meleys' rider)#rhaenys targaryen #rhaenys targaryen (aemon's daughter)#hotd characterization #hotd critical #hotd writing #hotd misogyny #hotd episode 2 #hotd episode 8 #hotd episode 10 #rhaenyra and rhaenys #hotd #house of the dragon #asoiaf

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Anonymous asked:

Do you think Matt and Emma had a reason to not understand the chocking scene after reading the scripts? I never understood why the were so shocked tbh. Thanks in advance if you answer this.

darksvster answered:

i can understand being confused reading it in the script. there's something that they cut out entirely from the whole show that was really weird but would have made the scene make at least a bit more sense. but i would say there are more around that choking scene that paint it in a bit of a different light, not much though.

i have always explained that scene as "daemon does not know how to mourn in a healthy or safe at all." i could write a whole thesis on it, but i'll simply point to how he reacted with the goldcloaks when baelon/aemma died, how he was distant from his daughters when laena died, and how he reacts when viserys and visenya die on the same day.

no one wants to hear that apparently, but people do not process loss in healthy ways, especially not someone who has exhibited himself to be violent on multiple occasions. yes, it's never to rhaenyra, but he is a violent man by nature. i would point to the fear that aegon is flying to kill them, assassins might be sneaking in to slit their throats, as genuine fears that he doesn't believe rhaenyra is taking seriously.

you can see this in the cut scene with jace and rhaenyra while daemon is raging and training soldiers. that scene shows that rhaenyra is also not thinking straight either, because jace also sees the risk that is at their doorstep. to them, war has already started. to rhaenyra, she's still tryng to prevent it. in her eyes, her father, who ruled during a peaceful period in westeros, just died and she is immediately being plunged into a period of war as a queen that she knows most people don't want.

people really want to see that choke as evidence of some abusive relationship, nothing we see on scene proves that. in fact, multiple scenes disprove that completely. but people really love to hate daemon and that scene gave them a lot of ammo, so i don't normally get into these rants. i normally just shit post and people can think what they want.

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TW: mentions of abuse; domestic abuse

I genuinely do not mean to shit on anyone's parade here, but I have so many concerns. (under cut bc "articles" or not that welcome in tumblr)

#daemon targaryen #daemon's characterization #hotd characterization #hotd episode 10 #hotd writing #hotd critical #hotd accidents #asoiaf asks from others #hotd

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rhaenyradaemons

Daemon “as you wish, My Queen” Targaryen. HOUSE OF THE DRAGON “The Black Queen” (2022) dir. Greg Yaitanes.

#hotd episode 10 #daemon targaryen #rhaenyra targaryen #tv edit #asoiaf tv edit

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List of HotD Inconsistencies:

(This list will be Continuously Added the more I realize where there is an inconsistency)

Daemon saying to Rhaenyra that he left her bc she "was a child" in episode 7 -- he was the one who said to Viserys to marry them for the sake of the House and that he wanted her, the only thing he asked Viserys in spite of all he wanted; he also said she was not a girl anymore (she's past Westerosi marriageable age and older than 18); Laena is younger than Rhaenyra in the show, yet Daemon married her not long after he left KL, assuming so since we have another time jump after episode 5; Rhaenys and Corlys had a larger age gap than either Daemyra or Aemma x Viserys/Viserys x Alicent and Corlys would have been attracted and talking to Rhaenys for a while before they married for her to be so adamant about marrying him when she was 16....yet the show changes all that
Alicent is adamant in saving Rhaenyra despite having tried to essentially get her and her kids killed or exiled for 10 years
Daemon himself had to claim Caraxes, he didn't bond with him when he was a baby or small child, yet he doesn't know how to comfort his daughter Rhaena about the same "issue" that is actually not an issue at all
a possible relationship with Criston Cole is framed and shit as if it were the most romantic and healthy relationship Rhaenyra could have had aside from the one with Harwin (who still is messing around with a person way younger than him who he had been attracted to since before she hit 18) -> the music and the actors' playfulness of episode 4, the hopefulness of Criston's proposal unpaired with any indication of what a delusion he's drawn up of who she is despite living and talking with her for years...and the Daemon is supposed to be framed as one of the moral villains and antagonists and worst persons in Rhaenyra's personal circle
[pt.2 of the one above] the show not taking advantage of Criston Cole witnessing the white stag approach Rhaenyra and thus (for him, at least, with his devotion to Andal beliefs and customs) show us how he reacts to the sign legitimizing Rhaenyra...and then deciding to abandon her -> making it seem as if a relationship between them would in any way be healthier than one with Daemon -> really, just presenting this whole idea that this is a good relationship and making their separation sem more Rhaenyra's fault than actually Criston's!
Rhaenyra knowing that the greens are plotting against her for years to install Aegon, having proposed to Daemon explicitly saying she needed him for her upcoming conflict with he greens, and then calling it "Daemon's war" and not wanting Daemon to shore up their defenses not immediately imprisoning Otto Hightower to have him right where she can keep him
Rhaenyra flip-flopping between showing strength to Otto or Daemon....then crying over a torn out page from a person who tried to kill/banish her and her sons
Rhaenyra being in any way affected by Alicent's page when she told Alicent before Alicent is essentially the biggest hypocrite AND Alicent has been trying to get her and her kids either killed or banished forever -> the page was specifically about Nymeria who would become the founder of the current House of Martell and remade the entire Dornish culture through her conquests and marriage to the then Martell Andal-only lord, aka, one of ASoiaF's women who was completely assured of her autonomous right to rule and responsible for a literal cultural reset that only benefited both herself as well as those she conquered for generation into current time, ahem genderless primogeniture....Alicent is trying to usurp Rhaenyra based on the "only males can rule" bullshit....you can't make this stuff up
Rhaenys absolutely knowing (or should know) that the greens could and would imprison or kill any of her grandkids, herself, and Corlys....yet allowing them to live in episode 9
Aemond supposedly being the son who "reads all the philosophies and prepared himself for leadership to protect his home and family"...then making the bright decision in antagonizing an envoy under someone else's home and killing him after chasing him down for more than 5 minutes tops -> Even if it weren't a decision, that would be even worse! If he knew he didn't have control over a dragon, AND didn't want to kill Luke, just to scare him (for 5 mins?)...why chase him down at all?! He's been riding Vhagar for years, so he either should have been way better at getting her to obey him OR he would have known that he couldn't control her all that well and avoid letting his emotions get the better of him. He would have known the risks, yet took them anyway! Then we have to assume that he actually wanted Luke dead and sought it out. That he did have control over Vhagar! Otherwise, we fall back again on him just being a dumbass, bc again, he said he studied to become better, have more emotional control, be more strategic, and smarter...but then pulls this? What a mess!
Criston Cole managing to get out of execution or imprisonment simply because Alicent said so, when he killed a man under Viserys' roof and that same man essentially having had guests rights...(digressing from the topic of inconsistencies and plotholes, this does not happen in the book -- Cole killed Joffrey during a tourney match, which both show and book audiences know are highly dangerous, so the point there was that Cole could get away with it on account of it being an already dangerous sport/event that is socially sanctioned; the book's telling of how Cole killed Joffrey makes more sense and has more potential to be emotionally more charged with helplessness)
*the Targs somehow not having an ounce of darker skin or kinkier/curlier hair despite making the Velaryon the exclusively black house and Viserys/Daemon/Rhaenys have 2 female Velaryon ancestors*
Rhaenyra showing a desire for vengeance for Luke but not Visenya, who died before Luke and who she lost while trying to hurry up and respond to the green threat herself without Daemon "interfering" (AND her calling the council at all, in the book, for the fact that she lost Visenya and the greens took her throne...again, going back to how she knows the greens want it)
episode 3, in the daytime Daemon (relatively way less armored than before) charges through the field without getting a single arrow to the head but in the 2nd episode (nighttime) an arrow pierces what looks to be his chest or shoulder while he is in full armor and on the mobile Caraxes. The entire thing, while entertaining and shocking, still makes about as much sense as Rhaenys bursting through the floor of the Dragonpit; my man should have become a porcupine with specific choreography matches with the specific set pieces and props locations they decided to go with

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from freya ᚠ pussy godmother of Twitter: Targs apparently control their dragons, based on Viserys' words (he only flew Balerion once) and the fandom believed it...meanwhile, the Targs canonically controlled dragons with vocal commands and whips me: (not using extreme pain, bc whips cant hurt dragons, it's merely a way to direct their focus bc dragons likely go toward the pain instead of away from it, like a horse) them: without having to pin anything into their dragons' necks; HotD!Targs--esp Aemond--apparently only have their dragons obey them some of the time -> me: [Aerea doesn't count bc that was her very first time; Aemond has been w/Vhagar since he was ten, and in episode 10 he is supposedly 19 but is actually 16]

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[this is more towards fans, but Im also annoyed by what effect this change was supposed to create] It's ironic that Criston Cole is made Dornish (an arguably different ethnicity from the dominantly nonRhoynish-rooted Westerosi) in the show and some take that as we are supposed to assume that his ethnicity leads him to be as desperate to prove he could confirm to the idea of an Andal knight and thus feel racial pressure from high or lords who have an ethnic or racial discrimination against him....but we don't consider how the Velaryons were made black with little to no consequence to even what the current Targaryens look like, at the very least. And again, his Dornishness doesn't really have any strong effect in his actions even in the show other than being mentioned in the first episode. In what scene did his Dornishness really, substantially disqualify him from opportunities and when do people snub him for his skin or ethnic background? In episode 2, Otto didn't want him not bc he was Dornish but because of his very low rank, which makes that a class thing, not either a race or ethnic thing! Yeah the Velaryons are in a much higher rank than Criston, but to argue that ethnicity and skin color do matter in the HotD/nonAsoIaF world that Criston navigates and then ignore how Summer Islanders are seen as "exotic" and "scary" and how any of the Targs lack enough melanin to make any claims that they are related to the Velaryons and then argue that skin color matters AND can have a negatives effect on one's access to societal graces....you're being deliberately obtuse, breeding anti-intellectualism/observantness, and choosing when race matters and when it doesn't according to immediate marketing needs. And you are actually trying to make a character who should have as much sympathy generated for him as this "change" (bc I think it was actually a mistake) as supposed to do.

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This is a long one.

Context:

While saying how Rhaenys has become much more hypocritical & more talk than action than her bk!counterpart, heretic-child pointed out 2 things that I think reveal the existence of more inconsistencies in HotD's writing:

honestly i still don’t know why rhaenys and corlys decided to support rhaenyra in the show, after believing she killed their son and hating her sons because she cuckolded them. literally what’s the point of making rhaenys and rhaenyra rivals, when rhaenys was her supporter all along? what’s the point of making rhaenys stern against rhaenyra since she became the one rhaenys couldn’t, but shushing her husband everytime he brings up how they stole her birthright? how this isn’t sexist?

This is the conversation Corlys & Rhaenys have in episode 10, where Corlys puts the blame for his house's loss of position AND Aegon's rise as king on Rhaenyra while Rhaenys tells him she is actually worthy of being a ruler to Corlys' & Rhaenyra's conversation:

Rhaenys: You are no man. You abandoned me... when I most needed you. Both our children stolen from us. I needed you. Baela and Rhaena needed you, and you abandoned us for more adventure at sea. As has always been your way. Corlys: I had no other place to turn. I lost everything. Rhaenys: We lost, Corlys. We. Corlys: I understand we have a new king. Rhaenys: The Stranger casts a long shadow over this family. Your brother is also dead. In his haste to bury you and claim your seat, he stood before the King and denounced Laenor's sons as illegitimate. Daemon took his head for it. Corlys: Heedless ambition has always been a Velaryon weakness. You were right, Rhaenys. I reached too far. And for nothing. Our pursuit of the Iron Throne... is at an end. We shall declare for no one. We will retire to High Tide to be content... with our grandchildren and... Rhaenys: Jace, Luke, and Joff are claimants to the throne. Those boys'll not be safe so long as Aegon is king. Corlys: Rhaenyra was complicit in our son's death. That girl destroys everything she touches. Rhaenys: That "girl"... is holding the realm together at present. Every man standing 'round the Painted Table urges her to plunge the realm into war. Rhaenys: Rhaenyra's the only one who's demonstrated restraint. [scene of Rhaenyra in the council, men talking and arguing] Rhaenyra: Lord Corlys. It brings much relief to see you hale and healthy again. I'm very sorry about your father, Princess. Corlys: He was a good man. Where is Daemon? Rhaenyra: There were other concerns which demanded the Prince's attention. Corlys: Mmm. (looking at Painted Table) Your declared allies? Rhaenyra: Yes. Corlys: Too few to win a war for the throne. Well, we would also hope to have the support of Houses Arryn, Baratheon, and Stark. Corlys: Hope... is the fool's ally. Rhaenyra: Both Arryn and Baratheon share blood with my house. But all of them swore oaths to me. As did House Hightower... if I remember. As did you, Lord Corlys.

And this is Rhaenys & Corlys of episode 7:

Rhaenys: She wanted to come home and he denied her. Corlys: Daemon did what he thought best. Rhaenys: Daemon only ever does what is best for Daemon. Laena needed our maesters. The surgeons in Pentos are as well-trained as our maesters. Corlys: You are looking to place blame for an act of the gods. Mayhaps the gods have scorned us... for our insatiable pride. The crown was yours until those fools at the Great Council plucked it from your head. Is it such a terrible thing for your husband to wish to win it back? Rhaenys: Tonight of all nights, let us lay aside this falsehood. It is not justice for your wife that drives you. It is your own ambition. 'Tis desire for the throne, if not for yourself, then for the scions of your house. I gave up the idea of wearing a crown a generation ago. It is you, lord husband, who refuses to abandon this pursuit, even now, at the cost of our children. Corlys: What is this brief mortal life... if not the pursuit of legacy? Rhaenys: Legacy may be why you live your life, Corlys. I want Driftmark to pass through Laena's line to Baela. To true Velaryon blood. Declare it now, while all are gathered here, and we will say that is how we will honor Laena's memory. Corlys: And disinherit our son? Rhaenys: He will be the King Consort. His son will one day sit the Iron Throne. Corlys: You would have me cast an even darker shadow over those little boys than already exists. Rhaenys: We are alone here, husband. You can speak the plain truth as we both know it. Rhaenyra's children are not of your blood. But Laena's are. They are her legacy. Corlys: History does not remember blood. It remembers names.

The logical inconsistencies & plot holes in question:

Rhaenys pointing out how the 3 V boys will not be safe also contradicts her seemingly lack of deep care for the boys back in episode 7 (script excerpt above under "Context")
This is a feudal society where the royal succession has been disrupted; people expect and go to armed conflict for ordinary territory disputes or less. This is not a faux democratic society or world where things, like the U.N. voting to contradict the U.S.'s veto as more of a gesture concerning Palestine to stave off a world war or something. To "declare for" anyone is to tell everyone you are going to fight or battle for when, and not if, real war breaks out. Everyone is very well aware that they are picking a side to FIGHT FOR and that there will be a war! Yet show!Rhaenys emphasizes: A) a person who's not willing to protect said grandchildren, children, herself, and go to an inevitable war bc of violence...is the best choice for a leader? She also says "Jace, Luke, and Joff are claimants to the throne. Those boys'll not be safe so long as Aegon is king." Thereby implying that there WILL be a war bc the greens will not let those kids go. B) how the war is optional or somehow avoidable by repeating Rhaenyra's unwillingness to go to war?!!! Rhaenys actively says Corlys should declare for Rhaenyra/go to war for her while also saying that his declaration will mean nothing because Rhaenyra intends to not go to war...but also there will be a war so you should choose Rhaenyra...so are we using the book or are we not, Condal?!
Corlys wasn't trying to see how moral Rhaenyra was nor how willing she was to not to fight, but how determined & prepared she was to fight--a direct contradiction to what we are led to believe after Rhaenys tells him that Rhaenyra has the "self-restraint" of a good and wise ruler (entirely based on Rhaenyra's moral character, on not immediately deciding to battle the greens) and we immediately go to Corlys entering the council room, which means he was convinced by Rhaenys' insistence on Rhaenyra's moral character... and it couldn't be more obvious that Corlys pursued a Velaryon-Targ marriage ONLY for his self-interests and therefore doesn't actually mind violence or war to get achieve goal! how does show!Rhaenys, who supposedly has an ethical code that is beyond political self-interests tolerate Corlys?!
***which goes to show how show!Rhaenys & show!Corlys are totally incompatible and make no sense as a ship***
*this one I already pointed out in many other posts, including this one, but it bears repeating here* Corlys is the one to want a marriage b/t the son he refused to see as gay and the princess for his house's rise to power...Rhaenyra was against it. Rhaenyra does not "destroy everything she touches" because her ability to do so is limited. And Corlys is the one to continue supporting Rhaenyra even after having these suspicions until he is the one who gets injured AND when he perceives that his objective is no longer reachable.
this conversation itself reveals that it's Corlys fault and actions that have led the Velaryon house to what he complains about...yet in the same exact conversation, he blames Rhaenyra for Laenor's death?! This is a level of stupidity or inconsistency that is on par with show!Alicent's
Corlys says "We shall declare for no one. We will retire to High Tide to be content… with our grandchildren and…" -- Baela & Rhaena are both TARGARYENS, not Velaryons, no matter who their foster host is…they are both Daemon's children, with his surname, under his final authority and Daemon did not give Baela to the Velaryons for the same reason that Balon Greyjoy gave Theon to the Starks (lost a conflict or in return for something in the face of a larger adversary, to assure of future nonaggression) -- Baela is not a hostage that Corlys has complete power over -- and again, how can he expect to protect these grandkids if they are Daemon's children, Rhaena isn't even his ward in the show, and the greens/Otto will inevitably try to pull him back into the war/conflict anyway bc of said blood relations to Rhaenyra & Daemon through self isolation and breaking away from potential buffers/allies?!!! Again, this is a level of stupidity or inconsistency that is on par with show!Alicent's.

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to the point about "Rhaenys pointing out how the 3 V boys will not be safe also contradicts her seemingly lack of deep care for the boys back in episode 7":

If we are meant to think that show!Rhaenys & Corlys deeply cared for the Velaryon boys

Rhaenys, epi 10: "Jace, Luke, and Joff are claimants to the throne. Those boys'll not be safe so long as Aegon is king";

Corlys, epi 7: "You would have me cast an even darker shadow over those little boys than already exists"

AND Corlys' mannerisms toward Luke in episode 7...

Why do both Corlys & Rhaenys decide, at some point in this season, to leave the boys' inheritances and their lives to the prospect/realities of danger with no intervention or support from them and their house?

Rhaenys, epi 7: I want Driftmark to pass through Laena's line to Baela. To true Velaryon blood. --- We are alone here, husband. You can speak the plain truth as we both know it. Rhaenyra's children are not of your blood. But Laena's are

Corlys, epi 10: We shall declare for no one. We will retire to High Tide to be content... with our grandchildren and... ["grandchildren" does not include the boys, here]

The whole thing abt Corlys in episode 10, explored HERE before these few past reblogs.

#rhaenys targaryen's characterization (meleys' rider)#hotd characterization #rhaenys targaryen #hotd episode 10 #the velaryon boys #rhaenys targaryen (aemon's daughter)#hotd writing #the velaryons #corlys velaryon's characterization #corlys velaryon #hotd

horizon-verizon reblogged

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List of HotD Inconsistencies:

(This list will be Continuously Added the more I realize where there is an inconsistency)

Daemon saying to Rhaenyra that he left her bc she "was a child" in episode 7 -- he was the one who said to Viserys to marry them for the sake of the House and that he wanted her, the only thing he asked Viserys in spite of all he wanted; he also said she was not a girl anymore (she's past Westerosi marriageable age and older than 18); Laena is younger than Rhaenyra in the show, yet Daemon married her not long after he left KL, assuming so since we have another time jump after episode 5; Rhaenys and Corlys had a larger age gap than either Daemyra or Aemma x Viserys/Viserys x Alicent and Corlys would have been attracted and talking to Rhaenys for a while before they married for her to be so adamant about marrying him when she was 16....yet the show changes all that
Alicent is adamant in saving Rhaenyra despite having tried to essentially get her and her kids killed or exiled for 10 years
Daemon himself had to claim Caraxes, he didn't bond with him when he was a baby or small child, yet he doesn't know how to comfort his daughter Rhaena about the same "issue" that is actually not an issue at all
a possible relationship with Criston Cole is framed and shit as if it were the most romantic and healthy relationship Rhaenyra could have had aside from the one with Harwin (who still is messing around with a person way younger than him who he had been attracted to since before she hit 18) -> the music and the actors' playfulness of episode 4, the hopefulness of Criston's proposal unpaired with any indication of what a delusion he's drawn up of who she is despite living and talking with her for years...and the Daemon is supposed to be framed as one of the moral villains and antagonists and worst persons in Rhaenyra's personal circle
[pt.2 of the one above] the show not taking advantage of Criston Cole witnessing the white stag approach Rhaenyra and thus (for him, at least, with his devotion to Andal beliefs and customs) show us how he reacts to the sign legitimizing Rhaenyra...and then deciding to abandon her -> making it seem as if a relationship between them would in any way be healthier than one with Daemon -> really, just presenting this whole idea that this is a good relationship and making their separation sem more Rhaenyra's fault than actually Criston's!
Rhaenyra knowing that the greens are plotting against her for years to install Aegon, having proposed to Daemon explicitly saying she needed him for her upcoming conflict with he greens, and then calling it "Daemon's war" and not wanting Daemon to shore up their defenses not immediately imprisoning Otto Hightower to have him right where she can keep him
Rhaenyra flip-flopping between showing strength to Otto or Daemon....then crying over a torn out page from a person who tried to kill/banish her and her sons
Rhaenyra being in any way affected by Alicent's page when she told Alicent before Alicent is essentially the biggest hypocrite AND Alicent has been trying to get her and her kids either killed or banished forever -> the page was specifically about Nymeria who would become the founder of the current House of Martell and remade the entire Dornish culture through her conquests and marriage to the then Martell Andal-only lord, aka, one of ASoiaF's women who was completely assured of her autonomous right to rule and responsible for a literal cultural reset that only benefited both herself as well as those she conquered for generation into current time, ahem genderless primogeniture....Alicent is trying to usurp Rhaenyra based on the "only males can rule" bullshit....you can't make this stuff up
Rhaenys absolutely knowing (or should know) that the greens could and would imprison or kill any of her grandkids, herself, and Corlys....yet allowing them to live in episode 9
Aemond supposedly being the son who "reads all the philosophies and prepared himself for leadership to protect his home and family"...then making the bright decision in antagonizing an envoy under someone else's home and killing him after chasing him down for more than 5 minutes tops -> Even if it weren't a decision, that would be even worse! If he knew he didn't have control over a dragon, AND didn't want to kill Luke, just to scare him (for 5 mins?)...why chase him down at all?! He's been riding Vhagar for years, so he either should have been way better at getting her to obey him OR he would have known that he couldn't control her all that well and avoid letting his emotions get the better of him. He would have known the risks, yet took them anyway! Then we have to assume that he actually wanted Luke dead and sought it out. That he did have control over Vhagar! Otherwise, we fall back again on him just being a dumbass, bc again, he said he studied to become better, have more emotional control, be more strategic, and smarter...but then pulls this? What a mess!
Criston Cole managing to get out of execution or imprisonment simply because Alicent said so, when he killed a man under Viserys' roof and that same man essentially having had guests rights...(digressing from the topic of inconsistencies and plotholes, this does not happen in the book -- Cole killed Joffrey during a tourney match, which both show and book audiences know are highly dangerous, so the point there was that Cole could get away with it on account of it being an already dangerous sport/event that is socially sanctioned; the book's telling of how Cole killed Joffrey makes more sense and has more potential to be emotionally more charged with helplessness)
*the Targs somehow not having an ounce of darker skin or kinkier/curlier hair despite making the Velaryon the exclusively black house and Viserys/Daemon/Rhaenys have 2 female Velaryon ancestors*
Rhaenyra showing a desire for vengeance for Luke but not Visenya, who died before Luke and who she lost while trying to hurry up and respond to the green threat herself without Daemon "interfering" (AND her calling the council at all, in the book, for the fact that she lost Visenya and the greens took her throne...again, going back to how she knows the greens want it)
episode 3, in the daytime Daemon (relatively way less armored than before) charges through the field without getting a single arrow to the head but in the 2nd episode (nighttime) an arrow pierces what looks to be his chest or shoulder while he is in full armor and on the mobile Caraxes. The entire thing, while entertaining and shocking, still makes about as much sense as Rhaenys bursting through the floor of the Dragonpit; my man should have become a porcupine with specific choreography matches with the specific set pieces and props locations they decided to go with

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from freya ᚠ pussy godmother of Twitter: Targs apparently control their dragons, based on Viserys' words (he only flew Balerion once) and the fandom believed it...meanwhile, the Targs canonically controlled dragons with vocal commands and whips me: (not using extreme pain, bc whips cant hurt dragons, it's merely a way to direct their focus bc dragons likely go toward the pain instead of away from it, like a horse) them: without having to pin anything into their dragons' necks; HotD!Targs--esp Aemond--apparently only have their dragons obey them some of the time -> me: [Aerea doesn't count bc that was her very first time; Aemond has been w/Vhagar since he was ten, and in episode 10 he is supposedly 19 but is actually 16]

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[this is more towards fans, but Im also annoyed by what effect this change was supposed to create] It's ironic that Criston Cole is made Dornish (an arguably different ethnicity from the dominantly nonRhoynish-rooted Westerosi) in the show and some take that as we are supposed to assume that his ethnicity leads him to be as desperate to prove he could confirm to the idea of an Andal knight and thus feel racial pressure from high or lords who have an ethnic or racial discrimination against him....but we don't consider how the Velaryons were made black with little to no consequence to even what the current Targaryens look like, at the very least. And again, his Dornishness doesn't really have any strong effect in his actions even in the show other than being mentioned in the first episode. In what scene did his Dornishness really, substantially disqualify him from opportunities and when do people snub him for his skin or ethnic background? In episode 2, Otto didn't want him not bc he was Dornish but because of his very low rank, which makes that a class thing, not either a race or ethnic thing! Yeah the Velaryons are in a much higher rank than Criston, but to argue that ethnicity and skin color do matter in the HotD/nonAsoIaF world that Criston navigates and then ignore how Summer Islanders are seen as "exotic" and "scary" and how any of the Targs lack enough melanin to make any claims that they are related to the Velaryons and then argue that skin color matters AND can have a negatives effect on one's access to societal graces....you're being deliberately obtuse, breeding anti-intellectualism/observantness, and choosing when race matters and when it doesn't according to immediate marketing needs. And you are actually trying to make a character who should have as much sympathy generated for him as this "change" (bc I think it was actually a mistake) as supposed to do.

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This is a long one.

Context:

While saying how Rhaenys has become much more hypocritical & more talk than action than her bk!counterpart, heretic-child pointed out 2 things that I think reveal the existence of more inconsistencies in HotD's writing:

honestly i still don’t know why rhaenys and corlys decided to support rhaenyra in the show, after believing she killed their son and hating her sons because she cuckolded them. literally what’s the point of making rhaenys and rhaenyra rivals, when rhaenys was her supporter all along? what’s the point of making rhaenys stern against rhaenyra since she became the one rhaenys couldn’t, but shushing her husband everytime he brings up how they stole her birthright? how this isn’t sexist?

This is the conversation Corlys & Rhaenys have in episode 10, where Corlys puts the blame for his house's loss of position AND Aegon's rise as king on Rhaenyra while Rhaenys tells him she is actually worthy of being a ruler to Corlys' & Rhaenyra's conversation:

Rhaenys: You are no man. You abandoned me... when I most needed you. Both our children stolen from us. I needed you. Baela and Rhaena needed you, and you abandoned us for more adventure at sea. As has always been your way. Corlys: I had no other place to turn. I lost everything. Rhaenys: We lost, Corlys. We. Corlys: I understand we have a new king. Rhaenys: The Stranger casts a long shadow over this family. Your brother is also dead. In his haste to bury you and claim your seat, he stood before the King and denounced Laenor's sons as illegitimate. Daemon took his head for it. Corlys: Heedless ambition has always been a Velaryon weakness. You were right, Rhaenys. I reached too far. And for nothing. Our pursuit of the Iron Throne... is at an end. We shall declare for no one. We will retire to High Tide to be content... with our grandchildren and... Rhaenys: Jace, Luke, and Joff are claimants to the throne. Those boys'll not be safe so long as Aegon is king. Corlys: Rhaenyra was complicit in our son's death. That girl destroys everything she touches. Rhaenys: That "girl"... is holding the realm together at present. Every man standing 'round the Painted Table urges her to plunge the realm into war. Rhaenys: Rhaenyra's the only one who's demonstrated restraint. [scene of Rhaenyra in the council, men talking and arguing] Rhaenyra: Lord Corlys. It brings much relief to see you hale and healthy again. I'm very sorry about your father, Princess. Corlys: He was a good man. Where is Daemon? Rhaenyra: There were other concerns which demanded the Prince's attention. Corlys: Mmm. (looking at Painted Table) Your declared allies? Rhaenyra: Yes. Corlys: Too few to win a war for the throne. Well, we would also hope to have the support of Houses Arryn, Baratheon, and Stark. Corlys: Hope... is the fool's ally. Rhaenyra: Both Arryn and Baratheon share blood with my house. But all of them swore oaths to me. As did House Hightower... if I remember. As did you, Lord Corlys.

And this is Rhaenys & Corlys of episode 7:

Rhaenys: She wanted to come home and he denied her. Corlys: Daemon did what he thought best. Rhaenys: Daemon only ever does what is best for Daemon. Laena needed our maesters. The surgeons in Pentos are as well-trained as our maesters. Corlys: You are looking to place blame for an act of the gods. Mayhaps the gods have scorned us... for our insatiable pride. The crown was yours until those fools at the Great Council plucked it from your head. Is it such a terrible thing for your husband to wish to win it back? Rhaenys: Tonight of all nights, let us lay aside this falsehood. It is not justice for your wife that drives you. It is your own ambition. 'Tis desire for the throne, if not for yourself, then for the scions of your house. I gave up the idea of wearing a crown a generation ago. It is you, lord husband, who refuses to abandon this pursuit, even now, at the cost of our children. Corlys: What is this brief mortal life... if not the pursuit of legacy? Rhaenys: Legacy may be why you live your life, Corlys. I want Driftmark to pass through Laena's line to Baela. To true Velaryon blood. Declare it now, while all are gathered here, and we will say that is how we will honor Laena's memory. Corlys: And disinherit our son? Rhaenys: He will be the King Consort. His son will one day sit the Iron Throne. Corlys: You would have me cast an even darker shadow over those little boys than already exists. Rhaenys: We are alone here, husband. You can speak the plain truth as we both know it. Rhaenyra's children are not of your blood. But Laena's are. They are her legacy. Corlys: History does not remember blood. It remembers names.

The logical inconsistencies & plot holes in question:

Rhaenys pointing out how the 3 V boys will not be safe also contradicts her seemingly lack of deep care for the boys back in episode 7 (script excerpt above under "Context")
This is a feudal society where the royal succession has been disrupted; people expect and go to armed conflict for ordinary territory disputes or less. This is not a faux democratic society or world where things, like the U.N. voting to contradict the U.S.'s veto as more of a gesture concerning Palestine to stave off a world war or something. To "declare for" anyone is to tell everyone you are going to fight or battle for when, and not if, real war breaks out. Everyone is very well aware that they are picking a side to FIGHT FOR and that there will be a war! Yet show!Rhaenys emphasizes: A) a person who's not willing to protect said grandchildren, children, herself, and go to an inevitable war bc of violence...is the best choice for a leader? She also says "Jace, Luke, and Joff are claimants to the throne. Those boys'll not be safe so long as Aegon is king." Thereby implying that there WILL be a war bc the greens will not let those kids go. B) how the war is optional or somehow avoidable by repeating Rhaenyra's unwillingness to go to war?!!! Rhaenys actively says Corlys should declare for Rhaenyra/go to war for her while also saying that his declaration will mean nothing because Rhaenyra intends to not go to war...but also there will be a war so you should choose Rhaenyra...so are we using the book or are we not, Condal?!
Corlys wasn't trying to see how moral Rhaenyra was nor how willing she was to not to fight, but how determined & prepared she was to fight--a direct contradiction to what we are led to believe after Rhaenys tells him that Rhaenyra has the "self-restraint" of a good and wise ruler (entirely based on Rhaenyra's moral character, on not immediately deciding to battle the greens) and we immediately go to Corlys entering the council room, which means he was convinced by Rhaenys' insistence on Rhaenyra's moral character... and it couldn't be more obvious that Corlys pursued a Velaryon-Targ marriage ONLY for his self-interests and therefore doesn't actually mind violence or war to get achieve goal! how does show!Rhaenys, who supposedly has an ethical code that is beyond political self-interests tolerate Corlys?!
***which goes to show how show!Rhaenys & show!Corlys are totally incompatible and make no sense as a ship***
*this one I already pointed out in many other posts, including this one, but it bears repeating here* Corlys is the one to want a marriage b/t the son he refused to see as gay and the princess for his house's rise to power...Rhaenyra was against it. Rhaenyra does not "destroy everything she touches" because her ability to do so is limited. And Corlys is the one to continue supporting Rhaenyra even after having these suspicions until he is the one who gets injured AND when he perceives that his objective is no longer reachable.
this conversation itself reveals that it's Corlys fault and actions that have led the Velaryon house to what he complains about...yet in the same exact conversation, he blames Rhaenyra for Laenor's death?! This is a level of stupidity or inconsistency that is on par with show!Alicent's
Corlys says "We shall declare for no one. We will retire to High Tide to be content… with our grandchildren and…" -- Baela & Rhaena are both TARGARYENS, not Velaryons, no matter who their foster host is…they are both Daemon's children, with his surname, under his final authority and Daemon did not give Baela to the Velaryons for the same reason that Balon Greyjoy gave Theon to the Starks (lost a conflict or in return for something in the face of a larger adversary, to assure of future nonaggression) -- Baela is not a hostage that Corlys has complete power over -- and again, how can he expect to protect these grandkids if they are Daemon's children, Rhaena isn't even his ward in the show, and the greens/Otto will inevitably try to pull him back into the war/conflict anyway bc of said blood relations to Rhaenyra & Daemon through self isolation and breaking away from potential buffers/allies?!!! Again, this is a level of stupidity or inconsistency that is on par with show!Alicent's.

#hotd characterization #rhaenys targaryen #corlys velaryon #corlys velaryon's characterization #rhaenys targaryen's characterization (meleys' rider)#fire and blood characters #hotd episode 10 #hotd writing #hotd wrongs #hotd

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