Helaena & Aegon's Relationship -- A Book Reader Explaining How They Got Some Truths or Conclusions Out of an Unreliable Narrator/Account

Also can be found on Twitter HERE.

*HEADCANON*

Art Credit by fkaluis

There's really no reason to think that F&B is unreliably telling/twisting this moment, as this part is told through Munkun/Orwyle, Orwyle who was there to witness Alicent putting out this search party for Aegon to get him quickly crowned.

QUOTE of Helaena about Aegon's Whereabouts (in case pic below is illegible, not sure about pic quality)

Yes, Orwyle was writing to paint himself as non-complicit/innocuous as possible to avoid execution during his imprisonment.

Yes, Helaena is reported to be a "pleasant", seemingly non-confrontational person.

Yes, there is the possibility that he wasn't in the room when Helaena answered the searchers.

However, again, what we know of Aegon, his raping, his philandering, the fact he wasn't present and in the room with Helaena and had to be looked for maybe a few hours before being found and then found with a 12-year-old (he was in his early 20s), speaks volumes about their relationship alone. We do not hear anything that shows Aegon was even involved in his kids' development or nurturing or hung out with them, just because.

Meanwhile we absolutely, at least, know that Viserys kept Rhaenyra close to him at the feast while Aemma was alive, & even more so after he named her heir. (Viserys has got his own parenting issues even with Rhaenyra, but he was definitely loving towards Aemma & Rhaenyra and was present. Rhaenyra would have remembered him as putting in that parental effort).

We absolutely know that Baela and Rhaena, Aegon III and Viserys II & all the Velaryon boys were close with, trusted, or worshipped Daemon by:

And there is absolutely no indication that Aegon II's relationship with Helaena mirrored anything like Jaehaerys x Alysanne/Daemon x Rhaenyra/Alyssa x Baelon/Aemon x Jocelyn/Rhaenys x Corlys. The Targ/Valyrian couples have the most romantic stories of the ASoIaF universe (as told by narrative).

Even in the more contentious couples' (of my list) earliest, most romantic years. Not a one. No reports of longing glances, hushed conversations ignoring the rest of the room as if they were in a bubble, screams of pleasure, tender arm holding, flying their dragons together, no famous words of affection or appreciation of the other's attributes. Nothing.

And Helaena being a "pleasant" person does not negate the ability to establish boundaries, fight back when alarmed/annoyed/feeling intruded on, or had some Targaryen pride herself. Or have some self-possession.

So really, we absolutely can & should take as fact, that Helaena said what I quoted about Aegon not being in her bed.

QUOTE of Helaena before Jaehaerys' Death

Aegon & Helaena, despite some people's insistence, were never close & were never in love & were never a true couple. And Aegon was never a good father, nor a good husband or person all on his own merit.

Anyway, back to the prime point: we as readers have managed to understand characters, their motivations, relationships, etc even though the entire account of the Dance and before the Dance/war IS made up of many sources w/agendas 7 biases before we look at "So Spake Martin"/"The Citadel 'ASoIaF' Archive"--or anything like those--websites.

But of course, some people already know & acknowledge some FACTS about these characters from these sources, but will thump their way into ad-hominems and divergent tangents just to avoid it & affirm themselves.

Link to Post about Who Arranges and/or is Responsible for Aegon & Helaena Marrying

Link to Post Talking about TV Helaena and Aegon, esp Supported by Episode 8 of Season 1

You're not missing anything about their book relationship. Helaena herself indicates that their marriage was a fluke:

There's really no reason to think that F&B is unreliably telling/twisting this moment, as this part is told through Munkun/Orwyle, Orwyle who was there to witness Alicent putting out this search party for Aegon to get him quickly crowned. Yes, Orwyle was writing to paint himself as non complicit/innocuous as possible to avoid execution during his imprisonment. Yes Helaena is reported to be a "pleasant", seemingly nonconfrontational person.

Yes there is the possibility that he wasn't in the room when Helaena answered the searchers. However, again, what we know of Aegon, his raping, his philandering, the fact he wasn't present and in the room with Helaena and had to be looked for for maybe a few hours before being found and then found with a 12 year old (he was in his early 20s), speaks volumes about their relationship alone. We do not hear anything that shows Aegon was even involved in his kids' development or nurturing, or hung out with them just because.

Meanwhile we absolutely, at least know, that Viserys kept Rhaenyra close to him at feast while Aemma was alive, and even more so after he named her heir. We absolutely know that Baela and Rhaena, Aegon III and Viserys II and all the Velaryon boys were close with, trusted, or worshipped Daemon by:

And there is absolutely no indication that Aegon II's relationship with Helaena mirrored anything like Jaehaerys x Alysanne/Daemon x Rhaenyra/Alyssa x Baelon/Aemon x Jocelyn/Rhaenys x Corlys. Even in the more contentious couples' earliest, most romantic years. Not a one. No reports of longing glances, hushed conversations ignoring the rest of the room as if they were in a bubble, screams of pleasure, tender arm holding, flying their dragons together, no famous words of affection or appreciation of the others' attributes. Nothing.

And Helaena being a "pleasant" person does not not negate the ability to establish boundaries, fight back when alarmed/annoyed/feeling intruded on, or had some Targ pride herself. Or have some self possession:

So really, we absolutely can and should take as fact that Helaena said what I quoted about Aegon not being in her bed.

About Who Arranged Aegon and Helaena to Marry in Fire and Blood...

This is the quote:

Some claim that Viserys is the only one responsible for marrying Helaena and Aegon when Helaena was only 13, and not Alicent. But:

Alicent's main goal was always power through her son, Aegon, by putting him on the throne. She uses the idea of Rhaenyra killing her or her kids to convince the green council into installing Aegon as heir, but this is not a stupid woman and she would have known that Rhaenyra had no murderous will against her siblings, no matter how many times she calls her brothers her "half brothers". Here is a quote proving that ("The Blacks and the Greens").

HotD; Season 1, Episode 8; “The Lord of the Tides”    

goodqueenaly explains HERE why Alicent would have pressed or approved of the marriage b/t Helaena and Aegon even though Helaena was 13. And since they aged down Alicent, Show!Helaena should be younger than in canon (if my math is good in the linked post).

In canon, Helaena marries Aegon in 122 A.C. (again when she is 13). 

But in the show, it is 125 A.C. that Aemond claims Vhagar and the two are still unmarried, going by how Aemond and Aegon talk. In my post talking about the show vs the canon ages, I say that by 125 A.C., in the show, Helaena is supposed to be 11-12. And we do not have a specific date for whe tney marry, but even if she did marry him when she turned 13 like in canon, Helaena, by the green’s estimation, would still be a child bride. And pressed into it by her mother.

Yes, so interesting that the green stans didn’t think about this.. Especially when the show made it a point to say that Aegon maritally rapes her with Helaena speaking about how he ignores her except when he is drunk and looks for her in episode 8:

...hmm.

IDK man. Sounds sus.

I offer you this gif to hold in case you wish to use it against them:

Helaena is a victim of her circumstance and while it doesn't make her an inspirational figure, her situation and death shows how the Greens were more ambitiously motivated than morally motivated, definitely. Alicent really couldn’t wait to marry her daughter off, and goodqueenaly breaks down what I think is why someone like Alicent would do that to her daughter.

For sure, Alicent is not seeing any heaven for any of this. Makes me almost upset for being nonreligious.

*EDITED POST* (3/19/24)

Disclaimer: I really don't know anything about neurodivergence or autism.

Here is one earlier post that I wrote about an issue with Helaena’s new characterization.

I used to think that it was nice to see some neurodivergent representation and that she got to be a little more than just the “plump” “fine mother” Gyldayn describes her. But it’s just that: “little”.

Now:

A) Dragon dreams are...dreams. Not visions you have while fully awake. So...

B) I think that it Helaena’s characterization suffers from the reliance on her neurodivergence. Neurodivergence does not equal personality. We don’t know her other than one small scene of her unintentionally(?) calling Aegon out, that she liked to play with bugs in her youth, and that she doesn’t like her own mother. These aren’t personality traits they are conviences for the greens’ image.

And the prophecies she speaks does nothing but tell us what we--the book readers--already know will happen, except for Rhaenys, but that was a scene that also never should have happened. We’re supposed to be wowed by how she is like Cassandra--the prophet who no one believes after cursed by Apollo for not sleeping with him or otherwise disobeying him. At least Cassandra is trying and much more active in her story, using her visions to try to stop catastrophe even though she knows or we may make the argument she already knew and thus this is where the Greek tale's futility comes from. HotD is not using this kind of futility but it is expressing a futility while keeping Helaena a passive victim.

But using the futility of Cassandra’s story element to express how “futile” and “tragic” the Dance was diminishes human choice more than i needs to--how Alicent decides to go after Rhaenyra and tries to get Aegon on the throne for power. Diminishes the activeness of human decision specifically for the people already having lost their ambition in the adaptation from the original story to the show:

Then there is what another writers says about how we know what will happen to her. The show gives us the only neuro-divergent character and we know she’ll lose her son to Blood and Cheese, of which she obviously blamed herself for, driving her into a mad grief. That she will die a horrid, “suspicious” death. Her suffering will be used to generate more sympathy for the greens, while diminishing and ignoring that Daemon only uses B&C for what Aemond did to Lucerys. (Again, eye-for-an-eye is not moral or justifiable. I’ have said over and over that it is rather Aemond and Alicent’s fault for targeting Rhaenyra.) The show till then inadvertently act like the biased Maester Gyldayn, who also just refers to Helaena's death; the writer ponders over how her death inspired rebellion against Rhaenyra and seems to lean towards Rhaenyra actually doing it, even though it brings up the missing Larys and the possibility that he spread the rumors to incite the peasants against Rhaenyra more than they would have otherwise.

This cheapens her, especially because we don’t really get to see her apart from her Alicent, her brothers, and her kids. Nor do we see her interact with Aemond or Aegon like the two eldest boys do in episodes 6-9.

Rhaenyra’s story was about how women in Westeros would be pushed further back into practically subservient positions, and Daenerys was meant to be a penetration into that element. Rhaenyra is the story of how a precedent against women in power came to be; Dany is when a women pushes back and begins to regain that power.

So Helaena doing nothing more than tell visions that don’t matter while she stays in her room with her children and tries to get her own mother to stop touching her and knowing that she’ll die a horrendous death after long grieving and torturing herself for her son’s death just so she becomes some sort of Martyr for green-stans makes for a more disheartening picture than I’d like.

Oh, and it doesn't really make sense for her to know what's going to happen to not just her siblings and parents but her CHILDREN and not go to Viserys, the most prophecy-focused person in her family as well as the most able to actually do something to turn things around.

Dragon dreams in ASoIaF are fixed but they do not say that a specific person WILL do this so much as someone must do this for that to happen...unless they're Dany, Daenys, Rhaegar, & Aegon I.

Fire and Blood, by George R.R. Martin, pg 385