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expert Cole hater

@horizon-verizon / horizon-verizon.tumblr.com

she/her -- ASoIaF Enthusiast -- (I will be changing the title of this blog frequently just because I want to)
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Taking a break from the fandom for a month or so, sorry if you left an ask and I didn't answer it for weeks. I need a breather.

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Anonymous asked:

Daenerys was more than just a "lost love" in Daemon’s story. She was a key political figure in her own right, central to the unification of Dorne and Westeros. As Princess of Dorne, she held an established political role, and her legacy endured beyond the personal grievances of those who later sought to weaponize her marriage in the Blackfyre cause. Daemon himself never publicly protested Daenerys’ marriage. His supporters later framed it as another injustice against him, but if Daenerys had been truly central to his ambitions. If he had been in love with her or considered her essential to his rule, he might have protested or rejected another bride. Instead, he married Rohanne and had several sons and daughters, so we can say that Daenerys was never as crucial to him as later narratives claimed. In fact, Daemon’s rebellion came eight years after Daenerys’ marriage. The rebellion put Daemon's family at risk. His widow, Rohanne, suffered immensely, and his children were left to fight in subsequent Blackfyre rebellions, doomed to repeat the cycle of exile and conflict. Poor Rohanne lost multiple sons in the Blackfyre conflicts and was forced to flee to Tyrosh with bitchAegor.

Well, there ya go. Kinda was trying to be polite or whatever in my first post about them way back but agreed.

#asoiaf asks to me#daenerys targaryen#Daenerys Targaryen (naerys' daughter)#daemon blackfyre#dorne#westerosi women#the blackfyre rebellion#asoiaf#awoiaf#awoiaf characterization
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Anonymous asked:

If this was a normal fandom, Daenerys using what little power she has to defy her owner and his men and explicitly go against their political economy in a way perhaps no one ever has, much less a woman (even a khaleesi), would be seen as an objectively brave and compassionate moment. But because the entire ethos of this fanbase, in every nook and cranny, every niche and subgroup, is Daenerys hatred, then something that would be seen as kind and good if done by anyone else, is twisted into something monstrous.

Any other fandom wouldn’t think Daenerys deserved to have her child ripped from her womb just for trying to help a woman and naively believing the woman would’ve wanted to help her. Hell, if it was any other character from ASOIAF in that situation, people would’ve hated Mirri. And we know this because no one says that Lysa was justified in trying to kill Sansa despite the Tullys forcing Lysa to marry a pedophile, or Theon was justified in conquering Winterfell despite Ned sacking his city, enabling mass rapes of women in it, and taking him away from his mother. Hell, Daenerys haters even claim the children of slave masters in Astapor don’t deserve to be punished for their fathers’ sins.

Yes, you make excellent points of comparison, anon. Lysa Tully and the constant refrain of slavers (the class itself) being immune to accountability and justice that they'd inflict on other, less exploitative and abusive parties (or arguably so) if they had been them.

Must go to work soon, so response will be short. In some ways, this is a normal fandom bc fandoms are usually, to my knowledge rife with misogyny and racism. But this fandom is unique (to my knowledge and experience) in that the misogyny has gone to the extent to overtake many people very ability to even read text properly as to miss the actual and apparent conveyance of character scene. Precisely bc Dany is a prominent character who provides a POV, didn't die when she was "supposed to", and is a woman who fills up the position of exiled hero that traditionally men filled in fantasy fiction. And people have lost their minds ever since she survived but Ned didn't, so to say.

#asoiaf asks to me#fandom hypocrisy#character comparison#agot#asoiaf#lysa tully#asoiaf slavery#mirri maz duur#daenerys stormborn's characterization#defending daenerys stormborn khaleesi targaryen#daenerys targaryen#daenerys stormborn#asoiaf fav posts
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Anonymous asked:

It’s absurdly misogynist to assign an enslaved child the blame for the violence perpetrated by the men around them, the very same violence that Daenerys herself was subjugated to multiple times to the point of considering suicide.

Also, it always makes me laugh when people say Daenerys’s obsessed with prophecy but then claim that Mirri was right to murder her baby and tear her womb apart based on a prophecy that ultimately isn’t even about Rhaego.

Most Daenerys ’s antis won’t say it outright, but they’re not mad that Daenerys killed Mirri, they’re mad that Daenerys didn’t die in childbirth with Rhaego or kill herself after his death. She just had to keep living, selfishly, and keep going, and build a real life for herself. They want so badly for her to hate herself and victim blame herself for being married to Drogo and she refuses to be the kind of good self-hating victim they want her to be, and they won’t be satisfied until they see Daenerys die. They believe her death is long overdue.

This Kevin Pendragon dude argued what anon is describing as misogynistic. Unfortunately, that's the attitude of a lot of men and male-oriented women, and another who might think and call himself a "alpha male" has just recently put out a YouTube video basically reusing the trailer ed and true tactic of derationalizing women and demascilinizing men nonconceeding/argumentative men: "Mentally Ill Women Gravitate to Dany" or something like that.

What's truly long overdue is the collective realization of these men and others being troglodytes. I honestly think that part of the clap back against them should be throwing them off with the most witty but short and unhinged insults of intelligence. (But all I've come up with that I can remember right now is that what they are says ng sounds a lot like believing-in-Brothel-Queen work).

#asoiaf asks to me#fandom misogyny#asoiaf fandom#daenerys targaryen#daenerys stormborn#defending daenerys stormborn khaleesi targaryen#asoiaf#agot#daenerys stormborn's characterization#agot characterization
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Anonymous asked:

Even though Daemon was the son of Daena, he had no claim to the throne under Westerosi law at birth. Aegon IV's legitimization of his bastards did not alter the established order of succession. It merely gave them legal noble status. Aegon IV’s favoritism does not override the fact that Daeron was the trueborn heir and was publicly acknowledged as such. Also, Daemon’s claim was based on the argument that he was the "better" Targaryen, not that he was legally next in line. Blackfyre’s rebellion was a direct challenge to the existing monarchy. This was a political and military rebellion, not a succession dispute with legal merit. It was a power struggle, not a rightful succession. Daena was never considered heir because Westeros did not recognize female succession. After the Dance, male-preference succession became even more entrenched. The Green faction’s victory reinforced this precedent, and the conflict was later cited as evidence that a female ruler would lead to instability. By the time Daena was born, the precedent had already been solidified, and Westeros was highly unlikely to ever accept a ruling queen. So no...Daemon did not have an equal or superior claim to Daeron. His claim was entirely dependent on his father’s posthumous legitimization, which did not override the existing Targaryen succession.

Correct, no notes (at work).

#asoiaf asks to me#ASoIaF fav posts#the blackfyre rebellion#daena targaryen#daemon blackfyre#daeron ii#westeros succession#westerosi history#asoiaf#awoiaf
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Anonymous asked:

The fandom ignore Young Griff’s cyvasse match with Tyrion which shows us that Varys failed in his manufactured the circumstances journey to make him into the traditional “humble hero who’s destined to save the people” trope that Daenerys embodies.

If Varys truly-duly wanted to craft FAegon into a "humble" leader for the benefit of the masses and overall peace, he failed spectacularly. There's a chance that he's merely trying to use the name and face and plans to work with others to rule through FAegon, though. Idk.

#varys#faegon#young griff#asoiaf asks to me#asoiaf#agot
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Anonymous asked:

The Martells unknowingly allying with the Blackfyres (Young Griff) is the funniest shit ever, the other being their words cause how are you unbroken and all that stuff when you keep losing over and over again.

“Dorne kept the dragons out for centuries” and yet kept raiding other kingdoms and starting wars, just for them to become part of the Seven Kingdoms in the end, lmao. Only fitting that they have to ally with their mortal enemies now, while Rhaenys’ direct descendant brought back dragons and has a dragon that’s the reincarnation of Meraxes.

I don't think this is particularly fair to the Dornish or the Martells, as yes they have resisted being conquered by ANY AND ALL militant forces over the centuries until they chose to join the rest of them all by essentially a trade off, diplomatically, bloodlessly. Actual colonization Daeron I's part (all Westerosi are just as capable and have enacted colonizing, imperial missions as we see with what happened to the Children of the Forest as long as they see "foreigners" as "too different" as the marcher lords, Baratheons, etc does the Dornish for centuries).

And ending one particular, very bloody contention between the crown and the Dornish (one down many more to go, but it's still an accomplishment that did save that much more lives).

I love the Targs and the 3 Conquerors. But not all the wars between them and other Westerosi has started from their aggression; AWoIaF explicitly states that both sides have begun skirmishes and raided each other for all sorts of reasons. Mind you, it's mostly the "Stony" Dornish people who have been in these raids and skirmished, the ones who have the least Rhoynish influence in their customs/more Andal and trend lighter skinned/haired. The Martells are not "Stony", but "salty" (still not exactly PoC, though, they are still like Mediterranean white before those white people were considered "white" by U.S. race definition and politics).

I think that people just misread or mishandle the political relations of Westeros. The Martells-- like any other house who have made deals with one time enemies bc technically no two houses are a true "friend" under a feudalist system--simply adapt with their circumstances/work behind the scenes/diplomatically settle stuff, esp seen in Doran, until they can no longer do so. Because, yes, there are so few of them relatively sparsely dispersed on their territory. It's not a weakness to acknowledge your own disadvantages and advantages to survive. The Martells/Dornish are fighters, but they ( mostly the Martells who make the decisions for wider Dorne) also know when to seek out alternatives. That includes how they will still get their revenge through once-enemies against their current enemies (the Lannisters). A thing any lord in Westeros would do if it served them (except maybe the Blackwoods and Brackens, but even they at one point joined forces in a pre-Targ era under Benedict the Good). Allyship doesn't mean friendship or close, loving bond.

So, in a word, they are not and have never truly been "broken" or lost. They live up to their motto.

#asoiaf asks to me#dorne#westerosi history#westerosi society#ASoIaF#agot#the blackfyres#doran martell#the martell
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Anonymous asked:

do you think if cersei's plan worked out, if ned was simply sent away in disgrace and used to make robb bend negotiate a truce and sansa became joffrey's queen but with more power and protection than she ended up with during the war, that sansa would have gone along with it almost in the way she did on the kingsroad, and convinced herself that joffrey was good "deep down" and she could bring that out in him over time, and that it was for the best and the result of a tragic misunderstanding? because the original outline for sansa is interesting

I really need to catch up on things, bc I have never seen the original outline for Sansa or have looked for any mention of such. I can't adequately answer this question. But I suppose--ignorant as I am right now and with what I have seen beginning-Sansa try to rationalize--that yes, I think she'd have.

#asoiaf asks to me#sansa stark#sansa stark's characterization#agot characterization#agot#asoiaf
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Anonymous asked:

Honestly I feel like GRRM and by extension HBO have no respect for Rhaenyra as a character. Her entire plot is just torture porn. We’re already going to have to watch her get gruesomely murdered by her rapist brother in a sexually degrading way in front of her son and now we have to watch her get choked by her husband ? Why ? GRRM managed to depict Daemon as a morally grey character in the book without this excess. There is nothing feminist about displays of sexual and gendered violence without subversion or catharsis because we know Rhaenyra loses everything. The “gotcha” Team Black uses against Team Green about Rhaenyra’s bloodline surviving is meaningless because her sons never acknowledged her as queen, the Dance is cited as precedent for denying women their claims going forward, the lot of Targaryen women goes from bad to worse, and ultimately, her descendants were overthrown. It’s just grim and sadistic writing. There is no light at the end of the tunnel for Rhaenyra, and exacerbating that serves no feminist utility.

And Team Green absolutely use the fact that Rhaenyra is being abused by Daemon as an argument as to why she is obligated to forfeit her inheritance rights and her claim to the throne, claiming that since Rhaenyra can’t “control” Daemon in her own home she can’t hold position of power that requires to exert her will over him to keep him in line. Pukeworthy that her being abused is being cited to strip her of her political power.

Rheanyra’s story was the absolute worst choice to adapt after Daenerys’s horrifically misogynistic ending. Because it’s just ending the story with Rhaenyra’s descendant, another female ruler, suffering and dying at the hands of a male relative/male lover, but at the end, we are told she deserved it cause she was a mentally unstable monster all along. 

I wrote about how Rhaenyra is written already HERE. I really hope you read it.

Basically: let's be careful about how to read this text that was apparently written many, many years after the Dance, by more or less socially isolated men who very much are collectively interested in justifying male-rule over female rule for the sake of "stability" AND GRRM definitely writes flawed structures and elements contradicting himself mainly for the sake of emphasis through drama but if one doesn't take to reading between lines, they will misunderstand a lot about Rhaenyra and close themselves to a few interpretaions based on superficial sources.

It's actually HotD that's telling us she "deserved" that end (or is so obviously going on that direction, especially with how they handled that Dragon seed arc), not F&B.

The reason why Rhaenyra doesn't really get the "happy ending" is because she is supposed to contextualize Daenerys' arc and provide the setting for how the Targs decline from their own assimilative, misogynist and explosive praxis and policies in the paradigm of Andal patriarchal feudalism. Rhaenyra and Dany may be very different people with different arcs, but they are inextricably connected and juxtapose-mirror each other in several ways just as Dany does other Targs: for example, Dragonstone was Rhaenyra's home away from the abuses of others and her death place, the place where patriarchal violence dealy it's horrific last blow and tainted or left a mark on Targs for generations but Dany was born her, never lived there but when she does arrive finally on her ancestral seat (that several other heirs have claimed as home), it will be what Navya of Twitter calls "vindication/exoneration/spiritual cleansing of the morally violation crime that occurred when Rhaenyra returned to her home and safe harbor, only to be trapped and murdered in front of her son."

Rhaenyra's story is about what ozymalek of Twitter and YouTube called "mobilized patriarchal violence". How a society easily and quickly as possible wrests up the resources to attack a woman and destroy her for daring to "enjoy" and fight for something reserved for males. Empress Matilda hadn't been killed and her son hadn't gone through the tortures Aegon III did not did Matilda have to suffer an evil stepmother who indirectly kicks her out of her own home. Part of it, I think, stems from GRRM trying to make it that much obvious and more engaging by giving more intimate suggestive detail without spelling it out for us so yes, he still drops the ball there but I think it was salient of him to show how Rhaenyra's own classism or racism/misogynoir kinda does her in towards the end, triggers her end faster. Desperation from sons killed, yes, but that was not all--there was also "commentary" about her "buying into" the paradigm of Targ-Andal feudalist hierarchies for the sake of concessions for the sake of maintaining support for her claim.

It's really the Daemon-Corlys comparison that shows the worst of GRRM's flawed and sexist writing. Again, read my post, please.

#asoiaf asks to me#rhaenyra targaryen#rhaenyra's characterization#fire and blood characters#fire and blood#fire and blood writing#asoiaf
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Anonymous asked:

I know no ones cares about the author’s words anymore but GRRM himself confirmed Daenerys and Daemon were in love in an interview on 2012.

https://t.co/LD9VvCpyCv

Could you tell us something of what happened in the relationship between the first Daenerys, Daemon Blackfyre, and the prince of Dorne?

Despite Daemon and Daenerys being in love, her brother the king, Daeron the Good, was more concerned with matters of state than matters of love. There had been many years of fighting with Dorne, and failure to bring them into the Seven Kingdoms while not being able to keep them from harassing the Seven Kingdoms. So he realized that where violence failed, perhaps marriage could bring an end to hostilites and so he uses his sister to make an alliance with the prince of Dorne. It's a political marriage, pure and simple, a convenient marriage to guarantee a union between Dorne and the Seven Kingdoms. And also, he prefers to give his sister to the prince of Dorne over a bastard bother with whom he'd already had a few clashes and whom too many people were looking one as a legitimate claimant to the throne or rightful king. That was the straw that broke the camel's back, and helps lead to Daemon becoming the first Blackfyre Pretender.

The question was if Daenerys STILL loved him by the time of the Rebellion and vice versa after all that time, and did Daemons love for her give him justified motivation to rebel against Daeron....or was it primarily/just Daemon choosing to use such a narrative to paint himself (or allowing others to) as the aggressive party of a less deserving king? Not that did they ever. Even if Daemon still loved Daenerys after all that time, he used her silent absence for his political gains and image of the hypermasculine, warrior-king who would not "lose" to foreign Dornish entities.

#asoiaf asks to me#daemon blackfyre#daenerys targaryen (naerys' daughter)#daenerys targaryen#daeron ii#asoiaf#awoiaf#awoiaf characterization#grrm quotes
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Anonymous asked:

Oh fuck off, since when GRRM write happy arranged marriages, besides Ned and Catelyn ? And even then, their relationship is far from ideal.

Martell stans can scream and cry all they want, no cute gardens commissioned by the order of Maron the predator and pedophile is going to make up for the fact that Daenerys was sold and shipped to Dorne like a mail order bride. Your ship is literally paralled with Khal Drogo and the third Daenerys 🤢

I hope highly doubt Maron was a pedophile; we have no text to suggest part of all of his reasoning to marry Daenerys was bc he wanted a child to sleep with and abuse.

#asoiaf asks to me#asoiaf marriage#daeron ii#daemon blackfyre#daenerys targaryen#daenerys targaryen (naerys' daughter)#asoiaf#awoiaf#maron martell
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Anonymous asked:

With the whole failed queens in an AU of f&b do you think Aemma as a co-queen or something like that could work (ofc she still fails to give viserys a son and the narrative would be against her / underestimating her, shes only queen for like 2 years and has a man at her side to 'control' her so it's not as bad as rhaenyra being a sole queen for the westeorsi misoginists) I just always found it never made sense Viserys did what he did after the council of 101.

If Aemma in this au is born Targaryen and shes Rhaenys TQWNW younger sister rather than daella/rodrick's child + her / viserys claim is one at the council. Maybe shes the rider of Balerion or her dragon is massive and any other time she'd back Rhaenys.

Anon trails after this post.

I think people shouldn't get too hung up on the fact that a royal who had no other higher authority over them took the opportunity to just do what they wanted despite the fact that the principle of males-first/male-line-only got him where he was. Viserys made Rhaenyra his heir bc he was emotionally dosed against his brother enough to not see Daemon wasn't that much of a true threat.

If Aemma is Rhaenys' younger sister and she instead of Rhaenys' becomes any sort of queen that's a step higher than a regular queen consort, I think Rhaenys' would not take that lightly and the Velaryons are further detached from the main Targs. Because Rhaenys' is older and had been Aemon's oldest child. It'd be a new thing like the deal between Rhaena and Alysanne's relationship or just the circumstances, where the elder sister is jilted of power the younger sister has despite primogeniture (R and A are their own thing and there's far more that defined their particular tie, but I'm taking one defining layer of it to say there's be division). Viserys could arrange to marry Laenor to his daughter Rhaenyra, then, but we'd still have the same issues as we do in canon. Probs worse, bc again it is a WOMAN instead of a man who's "taken" Rhaenys' spot or something like it; if she were to ever lose, it makes more "sense" for a man rather than a younger sister to "take" it bc the society is predisposed to that. Sure Rhaenys' had much pride, but this? Idk, it's be bc she has a lot of pride that there's be worse issues. As for Rhaenyra, Rhaenyra was Viserys' daughter AND she is not Rhaenys' younger sister. But idk.

And if the lords were so adamant about there being no regnant queen, I doubt they'd like a co ruling queen who truly was circling instead of Viserys "controlling' her. I suppose for the themes, it'd work, for all the reasons above. Have to think a bit more.

#asoiaf asks to me#westerosi queens#aemma arryn#asoiaf
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Anonymous asked:

Before HOTD, I never knew people could dehumanize children born out of wedlock to such extend, with their absolutely excessive, obsessional and vitriolic hatred. They rarely even let anyone compliment Jace, Luke, or Joffrey without telling people they’re bastards, as if that nullifies their good traits. It’s almost like they don’t see them as normal human beings who deserve to live and have the same opportunities others do. It’s genuinely frightening to see them espousing such views and sentiments; and they don’t spring out of nowhere, either. 

Therefore, I think it goes beyond merely looking at the story through a medieval lens. I even remarked upon it myself, that it sure seemed to me like there was a very high probability that such fanatical disgust could bleed over into their real world views of, say.... children born out of wedlock, children of adoption, women who have children with different men, and so on. Yes, it’s a fictional world but when people are that much passionate about conservative values, it just feels disturbing.

I am sure, too, some try to use the "it's a fictional world" thing to justify it. Problem is, if you have that much of an issue with fictional bastards having any sort of "undeserving" privilege or just safety so much that you can't even acknowledge GRRM is not trying to subject illegitimate people to the same fates or conditions of degradation you're trying to justify, then you're probably just projecting your own "values" about who deserves what. The text doesn't support your ideas upon not-so-past deep inspection and when you recognize it writes these things as tragic instead of "neutrally" and cynically deserved.

When I say that Jaehaerys and Alysanne loved each other, I am saying so bc the TEXT clearly and unambiguously shows me that. Despite me knowing they are siblings. That's not me saying royals or anyone SHOULD be with their siblings in real life nor me ever encountering siblings/incestuous couplings (TikTok is a wild place) in real life and thinking that is cute. Those people want to reinforce what is already present in them, justify how they think safely under the guise of "it's fiction, bro", bc incest itself as a phenomenon is not a principle. But believing that illegitimate people shouldn't be treated as human and have rights definitely is a political and (a)moral idea specifically meant to uphold conservative, patriarchal structures.

#asoiaf asks to me#bastardry#bastards#westerosi bastards#asoiaf fandom#fandom critical#fandom discrimination#asoiaf
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Anonymous asked:

I also think it was intentional on GRRM's part that Mirri's village was already under attack when Drogo arrived. She would have been enslaved and her people would have been killed regardless of Dany's or even Drogo's actions. But the problem is when you point this out, Dany's antis will then jump to "oh well Mirri didn't force her to miscarry, Dany knew the price and was lying to herself." Even though they were just arguing that Mirri was justified. It just seems like they'll argue anything at this point.

Their opponent is Dany and favoritism for her, of course they'll just argue anything. These women are their perceived best weapon against dany, they'll never get rid of it anytime soon if they are so devoted to their anti-Danyism (and being true to text).

Before some try to use that bit about mirri's people going to be killed and raped regardless if drogo was there or not to try to say he isn't culpable for mirri and the people's suffering or accusing me/anon of saying that he is....no, he is totally accountable/responsible for mirri's pain and losses. He still chose to continue the misery for "profits" and "glory" and to keep his own men loyal to him when he could have done what Dany would and did do and put a stop or try to stop it altogether.

The point was thatDany is not to blame for the Lhazarene suffered this, why? Because Dany was DROGO'S sex slave!

#asoiaf asks to me#mirri maz duur#daenerys targaryen#daenerys stomborn#the lhazarenes#asoiaf
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Anonymous asked:

Daemon Blackfyre had as much rights to the throne as Daeron not because Aegon IV was nasty and wanted to get under Daeron’s nerves but because Daemon was first and foremost Daena the Defiant’s son and Daena should’ve been queen as Aegon III’s eldest living child after Baelor’s death yet she was usurped despite a daughter coming before an uncle,

That's fine and all, but I also think that it was beyond too late for Daena & Daemon wasn't out here trying to honor his mother like Aegon III probs was.

#asoiaf asks to me#daemon blackfyre's characterization#daemon blackfyre#daena targaryen#awoiaf characterization#awoiaf#asoiaf#westeros succession#westerosi history
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