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Just my (mostly) Apollo thoughts!

@hogoflight

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Hey! This is just where I post stuff daily (on a queue) about the Greek pantheon (mostly Apollo)!

dni terfs & radfems (transphobes in general), aphobes & arophobes, proshippers (yes. this includes shipping teenagers with adults.), bigots etc.

Although I personally am very interested in Ancient Greek religion, which does includes Greek mythology but particularly the historical context and cultural practices surrounding it, these thoughts are not about Apollo as the Deity or as Ancient Gods part of a religion, I’m just having fun with how he and other deities could be represented as characters in hypothetical stories including them. A lot of these align w Trials of Apollo bc I like the Trials of Apollo very much ^_^

lmk if I should tag anything!

tagged warnings (to block):

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hogoflight

Putting TOA Apollo into a dnd au whilst taking into consideration Actual Apollo is so funny bc like. Baby he can be ANY class if you try hard enough and aren’t afraid

for example:

barbarian: rouser of armies, generally killing people, temper -> Rages when fighting, TOA specific - killing Commodus 2 times in the way he did. as a multi-class thing, Apollo getting pissed mid battle, flying into a rage and suddenly fighting with his sword / bare hands. Learning to control and wield his rage to suit him and his allies in a useful destructive way!

bard: God of Music. And dance. And many more. Yeah you know this one.

cleric: bridge between divinity (Zeus & the fates, etc) and mortals, performs miracles and heals people, spreads his name & faith in the gods in the many places he goes, identity as a good, caring, involved father of his children -> patient and loving towards people he helps with added godly miracles.

druid: associated with hunting & Artemis, possibly was a hunting god in Archaic period(?), associated with a lot of animals which he also turns into (dolphins in the Homeric hymn come to mind). In order to build cities, you need to have good knowledge of living and working with your physical environment and surrounding as well as generally be good at surviving and thriving in the wild.

fighter: he fights?? Good with a sword, bow & arrow, fisticuffs - could be translated into a decent range of weapon proficiencies. Maybe he’s a fighter with a LOT of hobbies?? You could also throw him being a teacher in here - maybe he teaches fighting to kids??

monk: good at wrestling? Beat Ares at wrestling in the Olympics, Wrestled Phorbas and killed him. Similar to the barbarian anger thing, but less finding a useful outlet for anger and more controlling it and calming yourself. TOA specific - Commodus again.

paladin: upholds faith in the gods, delivers vengeance for them (when hubris’d) & (forcefully) protects devotees of the gods (I guess most examples are of his own eg. killing Neoptolemus when protecting his priests, etc.), and punishes hubris (could be more specific to the gods)

ranger: good with a bow & arrow. Associated with wolves & ravens. Hunter. Associated with Artemis.

rogue: the Odyssey mentions him (and Artemis) being the reason for sudden death because of their arrows - they’re silent, deadly, and unpredictable. Also something something intense light creates shadows. Could lead to an Apollo & Artemis tag team!

sorcerer: Divine prince of Olympus & favourite son of Zeus has GOT to have inherited power from his parentage. Very much the ‘extremely powerful son with the gift of prophecy whom the land itself tried to prevent from being born but was anyway’. Also a lot of exploration on his own heritage & inheritance - you could explore Trojan Apollo practicing his magic as a way of maintaining Trojan culture and his own heritage that is now almost gone. You could also mess with the many different theoretical origins irl Apollo has and make WHAT he inherited his power from a mystery.

warlock: ok this one is hard. perhaps myths where Apollo inherits / takes domains in a dodgy way. Particularly i think in terms of his associations with beings that aren’t quite gods / divine / worshipped per se, but are gods / divine / worshipped in a culture that an Apollo-worshipping culture then invaded / build relations with, then becoming their warlock out of repentance / power shifts depending on what the religion of said area would actually look like (maybe he’s introduced as a warlock of that divinity who then becomes more powerful and more worshipped by the people, then overthrows said divinity / breaks their pact) out of technicalities would be sick. For instance, Apollo being cursed to be a warlock of Python / Gaia to slowly inherit Python’s power, guided by his/her undying corpse is a pretty cool concept. Alternatively, being a warlock of Daphne out of remorse for what he did and her making sure he now protects people wherever he can & is a force for good, wearing laurels as a symbol of his pact!

wizard: god of knowledge etc etc. I see no reason why his desire for knowledge stops at learning how to manually shape the world around him! He can have whatever stone the Hyacinth one is as part of his staff.

Bonus!

artificer: he made the kithara and also something something cures eye injuries - he made tools to do so?? Again lots of pushing and pulling with this one, maybe crafting medicines could arguably count. Um he built Artemis’ first temple out of bones and goat heads (I think? Goat something) in that one account of a myth. I could see him having a phase of getting into making things himself.

blood hunter: blood sacrifice. The purification rites of Orestes & himself (after slaying Python), the Lycanthropy, the Odysseus dedicating his slaughter of the suitors to him, etc. He deals with a lot of moderation WHICH WOULD TRANSLATE TO SACRIFICING ENOUGH BLOOD TO REAP THE BENEFITS OF PERFORMING MAGIC WHILST NOT SERIOUSLY INJURING YOURSELF, NOT IMPLYING THAT HAVING ‘A LOT OF’ BLOOD (WHATEVER THAT COULD EVER POSSIBLY MEAN) IS BEING EXCESS FGFHNDHDNFN

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Putting TOA Apollo into a dnd au whilst taking into consideration Actual Apollo is so funny bc like. Baby he can be ANY class if you try hard enough and aren’t afraid

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hogoflight

still working on my Hyacinthus design btw if you’re wondering what’s up it mitosis’d into 5 different Hyacinthus designs .

actually speaking of if anyone has any cool sources / links on theories about pre-Apollo Hyacinthus I would be very excited !

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Anonymous asked:

hi I love your tags so so much! they were so sweet and so interesting and creative and the whole Aphrodite type of beauty thing sounds really interesting do you have any articles and recommendations to read further into it??

-hogoflight

Hello my fine feathered (I am assuming possession of feathers if you are, indeed, capable of flight) @hogoflight! I'm always always happy to hear that people appreciate my frenzied rambling in the tags :D! I have a lot of articles and recommendations :D!! Ancient Greek notions of beauty and representations of it in their art and sculptures is a pretty well studied topic! There isn't any way for us now to know definitively what the beauty standard was (it varied widely from region to region and culture to culture after all) but here are a couple of my favourite reads about Aphrodite and what her representations tell us about idealised beauty!

"When the beauty traits are described in the texts, they are never extreme or anything that could not be found in normal people just that they are more beautiful in every aspect. Furthermore, the sculptures’ physical forms look healthy, they are tall and have distinct curves. Great examples of this are the Knida sculpture and de Milo (the Melian) sculpture."

Of course, these images are still idealised, and there was still a concept such as 'too fat' or 'too skinny' found in written records (and this thesis even includes analysis of pornographic writings and descriptions of the fashion and stylings of pubic hair of women from different regions!!) but from an interpretational standpoint? There is absolutely no reason why these can't refer to a fuller figure. Height was also a very important factor after all and over the course of many eras, it seems like being well proportioned in addition to the length and appearance of one's hair were the most important factors (and, like Apollo, greater beauty was given to those with curlier hair)

  • Mireille M. Lee's 'Other Ways of Seeing' essay which talks about the forgotten female viewers of Knidian Aphrodite which is also extremely illuminating on how Aphroditic sexuality and sensuality was perceived totally differently from the well documented male voyeuristic gaze (which was overly preoccupied with the statue's nakedness and therefore over-sensationalised the statue's physical appearance) vs women's perspective on the statue which is more centered on the beauty of simplicity in Aphrodite's garment and decoration and in her power and ability to captivate both in her finery and without it. I think it's especially useful in exploring the importance of finery, jewellry and adornment in representations of Aphroditic beauty.
"Some of the small-scale copies are heavily jeweled, especially those from the eastern Mediterranean, for example the Hellenistic gilded terracotta statuette in the Çanakkale Museum (Fig. 5) in which the goddess wears, in addition to the armband on her (right) arm, the following: a necklace with multiple pendants; cross-bands extending over both shoulders and hips, with a cascading pendant in the center; a coiled snake armband on the left arm and another snake on her left thigh, and a twisted anklet on her right leg. (The left leg has been restored, and might also have featured an anklet.)"
"Jewelry is especially associated with Aphrodite in Greek literature. As seen above, in the Homeric Hymn to Aphrodite, the goddess adorns herself with gold jewelry, dress-pins, and earrings in the shape of flowers (162–3)..."
  • Finally, and to me, the most important one in the argument for an interpretation of Hyacinthus as fat, beautiful and fundamentally Aphroditic comes from Brilmayer's brilliant brilliant thesis done on Aphrodite's work and influence in Archaic Greek Poetry which does away with all of that masculine preoccupation with physical proportion, measurement and bodily ideals for a focus on a Sapphic Aphroditic ideal centered in clothing, ornamentation and, most importantly cunning as symbols of Aphrodite and ultimately a feminine idealised form of beauty. This paper also discusses Pandora and Helen in these terms and it is just kind of a wonderful read tbh.
"Combining Homeric and Hesiodic elements with her own ideas, she [Sappho] alters the way female beauty is viewed. For example, the Homeric war chariot – a symbol of male, military prowess - comes to symbolise the totality of Aphrodite’s power uniting in itself male and female qualities. Having addressed the concept of beauty directly, Sappho then concludes that beauty lies in the eye of the beholder. With the help of Helen of Troy and her beloved Anaktoria, Sappho sets out to reinvent the concept of female beauty as a godlike, subjective quality that may be expressed in many ways, yet remains inspired by Aphrodite."

The conclusion to all of this of course is that Aphroditic ideal beauty is much more fluid compared to its stricter Apolline masculine standard. The nuances and understandings of both are of course, constantly being studied, analysed and scrutinised but really, if Dionysus who was both bearded and clean shorn, effeminate, birthed and rebirthed (and twice gestated!) and strongly associated with vegetation can be popularly portrayed as fat and handsome, why can't Hyacinthus?!

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HOUGH I NEED a fic with TOA Apollo (god of truth, prophecy, medicine, hunting) having a stint as a Private Investigator in a very overdramatic, eccentrically “him” way with Meg McCaffery as his partner (and muscle. And person with connections to the Triumvirate’s whole crime deal) being assigned stuff by the police being rude and nasty who clearly just want him to incriminate someone specific / close the case / cover up their shady stuff, so he goofs around, casually breaks reality and mocks old detective shows and Film Noir stuff to mess with them and generally waste their time and money BUT comes to the actual conclusion with incredible detail and accuracy so that they can’t COMPLAIN or argue against him AND THEN is very purposefully empathetic, gentle and efficient with cases for other people who are looking for and need help (in a very Columbo way. ACTUALLY OML INSTEAD OF REFERENCING HIS WIFE APOLLO CONSTANTLY REFERS TO HIS HUSBAND HYACINTHUS AND IT’S VERY UNCLEAR WHETHER HE’S ALIVE OR NOT (TOA paradox of Hyacinthus tuxedo)!)

it works really well! He would:

  • have good knowledge of analysing a crime scene bc medicine,
  • find people and put himself in suspects’ shoes bc hunting,
  • interrogate very very easily bc truth (again mostly he just messes with the actual culprit),
  • have hunches about where they might be bc prophecy,
  • be dramatic enough to loudly announce twists,
  • knows plenty of interesting people to “know a guy” (other gods, his children old and young, exes),
  • be beautiful enough and slutty enough (with love) to sustain a romantic subplot / inevitable tension (divorced) with “guys he knows” that he must dramatically call in despite their “complicated past” because he has “no other choice”. I could go on.

and Meg constantly resisting his dramatics and as the plot convenient way to resolve any emotional drama with Apollo (“but Meg, what if he hates me!” “Shut up. Do it.” “Okay! 😊”) and stop him going off on tangents if he drifts TOO far. It’s great!

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hogoflight

Sorry for not posting my mind has been invaded with assigning lamp shades to cover the heads of the gods. Productive? No. Cool? YEAg

I need to explain that this started bc I wanted to draw Apollo w my design of Hyacinthus (still in the works) to figure out how they work design wise as a duo and couldn’t decide on a face for him so I lampshaded the Man (divine). And well it spiralled from there. I think it’s great and everyone should do it good Exercise in drawing different body types and utilising shape language creating character and conveying emotion and intent through body language!!

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Hgrgrsrggrgrrg making a Hyacinthus design and have never felt this struggle more strongly before. I’VE DECIDED! IM GOUNG TO DO IT EVEN IF NOTHING IN ANY SOURCES WHATSOEVER OR CULTURAL CONTEXT EVEN REMOTELY SUPPORTS IT (as far as I’m aware) EXCEPT FOR HAVING DAUGHTERS IN THAT ONE TEXT HES GOING TO BE A BEAUTIFUL FAT MAN!!

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AAARGH NO I just missed this blog’s birthday 😔😔 happy late birthday 🎂

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hogoflight
thinking about a choose-your-own adventure game as one of the gods trying to disguise themself as a human (in modern Greece) and depending on the decisions you make, the more you narrow yourself down from Vague God who is Everything They Are, into one of their broad functions, into one of their broad functions w political alignments (maybe also depends on location in Greece?), into 1 or 2 local epithets as your choices become less and less broad.

with a more meme-y approach: If you go into Greek Ares, half of his options are like KILL or EAT RAW MEAT or LAUNCH THEM INTO THE STRATOSPHERE or MAKE LIKE YOU’RE HUNTING EVERYONE IN A 3 MILE RADIUS FOR SPORT.

If you go down Athens Athena’s path, all the options become ridiculously convoluted and passive aggressive and only sometimes useful to the situation at hand.

Apollo’s choices at the beginning being unfairly, disgustingly different from each other like “adopt them” “eat their liver then poison the water supply” “[vaguely appropriate verbal response but kinda sleazy]” “quote a Delphic maxim and / or vague prophecy and ascend through the roof (cost: €2,000)”.

WAIT I FIGURED OUT THE CONTEXT. they’re trying to break into the British museum to steal back their stuff! Different gods give you different routes to try and follow through the museum with different vibes and different interactions with other parts of the museum and other cultures and natural history!! I guess the cost would be in £ then.

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thinking about a choose-your-own adventure game as one of the gods trying to disguise themself as a human (in modern Greece) and depending on the decisions you make, the more you narrow yourself down from Vague God who is Everything They Are, into one of their broad functions, into one of their broad functions w political alignments (maybe also depends on location in Greece?), into 1 or 2 local epithets as your choices become less and less broad.

with a more meme-y approach: If you go into Greek Ares, half of his options are like KILL or EAT RAW MEAT or LAUNCH THEM INTO THE STRATOSPHERE or MAKE LIKE YOU’RE HUNTING EVERYONE IN A 3 MILE RADIUS FOR SPORT.

If you go down Athens Athena’s path, all the options become ridiculously convoluted and passive aggressive and only sometimes useful to the situation at hand.

Apollo’s choices at the beginning being unfairly, disgustingly different from each other like “adopt them” “eat their liver then poison the water supply” “[vaguely appropriate verbal response but kinda sleazy]” “quote a Delphic maxim and / or vague prophecy and ascend through the roof (cost: €2,000)”.

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thinking about a crossover between TOA and Ace Attorney is making me cackle. Because if you made TOA Apollo a defence attorney, Wright and Apollo Justice would have to be subjected to his bastard defence that is “um you should let my client not get punished for murdering his mother because. Because his mother killed her husband which is um. Which is worse because. Um. Uh. Well when you think about it do mothers really matters when it comes to them when they have a child. your relationship to your mother doesn’t actually matter Your Honour because you’ve been raised without your mother and you’re perfectly fine right. Btw if you disagree you’re totally not fine” WHICH IS SOMEHOW WORSE THAN ACE ATTORNEY
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