@helpmeimblorboing / helpmeimblorboing.tumblr.com
Had a dream that Epic had an unfinished song called Love Remains in which the ghost of Achilles tells Odysseus that over the years he has been dead, all the desire for honour and glory he once held close had faded away, and the only thing that remained was the love of Patroclus, and I kind of wish I was a better songwriter because damn
You know what ? The idea that Odysseus discovered his mother's death by finding her ghost in the Underworld gains a new, even more sad dimension if you assume that Epic follows the canon prescribed by some interpretations of the Odyssey, because according to some version of the story, she didn't just die of grief - she died by walking into the sea after seeing Aeolus' storms blow Odyseus' ships away from shore
Not only did Odysseus' crew get him lost at sea yet again, but they also killed his mom
You wanna know what’s worse ? If it’s true that she killed herself on seeing the winds blow her son’s ship away from shore, then he (or, at least, his ship) really was “the last thing she saw”
Patrochilles really just fits with every ship imaginable huh
Apollo just wasn’t even trying, huh ? Like, he didn’t bring up Troy ONCE throughout his verse. Like, do you WANT Odysseus free or something ?
The fun thing about accepting the idea that Homer was Odysseus’ grandson is that that essentially means that he spent an entire novel thirsting after his grandfather.
Like, Homer, buddy, why are you describing your grandpa’s luscious thighs in such detail ?
I find the debate about the relationship between Achilles and Patroclus to be hilarious, because bro their goddamn mentor outright calls them husband and wife at one point
For context : while trying to convince Achilles to stay and fight the Trojans, Phoinix, his old mentor, tells him a story about a man who refused to fight until his dear wife begged him to, at which point, he fought, but gained no honor
The man’s name was Meleager. And the woman ? Well, her parents named her Halcyon, but the story calls her Cleopatra
You know what that name comprises of ? “Cleo-Patra”. “Kleos” and “Pater” - “glory” and “father”.
You know what other name comprises of those constituent words ? Patroclus - “Patra” and “klos”. “Pater” and “Kleos” - “father” and “glory”
Like come on, man
I find it hilarious that both people “favored by Athena” get screwed over so much more than their fellow men
Like Odysseus got fucked over repeatedly throughout the Odyssey, had to abandon his newborn son and wife, wasn’t even there when his mother died, and had to watch his dog die (for the big things)
Diomedes, despite being considered relatively blameless by the gods (given the fact that he had a relatively safe journey home to Argos), came home to find that his wife was cheating on him with the son of his loyal general Sthenelus, and got kicked out of his own kingdom and forced to flee to Italy
Like, Athena, what the fuck
Hey, fun fact. Odysseus’ name, Odysseus ? Yeah, that connects to the Greek verbs ὀδύσσομαι (odusommai) or “to hate”, ὀδύρομαι (oduromai), or “to lament” and even ὄλλυμι (ollumi) or “to be lost”
That’s sets up an interesting idea, because all Greek mythology revolves around this idea that fate is an unchangable thing. That your life’s story been set in stone long before you were born, that the Fates spun your yarn and marked its cutting-point centuries before your oldest ancestor came into this world
And nowhere is that better represented than here - Odysseus comes into the world with a name already marking him with the tragedy of the Odyssey. There was no avoiding this for him
However !! A point to be noted. His wet-nurse, Euryclea, actually suggested that he be named Polyaretos “for he has been much prayed for”. It was, in fact, his grandfather Autolycus who named him Odysseus, his reasons basically being “a lotta people pissed me off in life, so I’m gonna name you Piss-off”
So, I like to imagine that Autolycus actually unknowingly fucked his grandson over with that pun, and that if he had listened to Euryclea, the tragedies of the Odyssey could be avoided. In this essay I will
It is interesting indeed how that phrase of Euryclea's is being interpreted as a possible name for him. The way the text is formed it means "Please name him for he was much prayed for"
(Translation by me)
So basically the word "πολυάρητος" polyaretos was mostly a clarification to Odysseus's upcoming birth and not necessary a suggestion for a name for Euryclea tells Autolycus to choose which does imply the name was not decided yet. However because of the way the word was formed people often perceive it as a possibility that it would be a name. That doesn't seem to be 100% the case but it is interesting food for thought.
Names have power in Greek mythology although it is rather blurry as to whether the name brings in the fate or the fate brings in the name. Sometimes it is clear (for example Heracles originally was named Alcides but after he was turned mad by Hera to kill his children and got the omen from Delphi he was named Heracles "the glory of Hera") at others seems to be the opposite for example "Antigone" which means "against her parents" who eventually betrays Kreon and buries her brother
Even Anticlea herself. Her name means "against glory" so her end seems to be reflecting her name given how badly her life ended and not at all honorably. Euryclea means "wide glory" and in a way even if she is a slave she received glory by helping Odysseus and remaining loyal to him etc
It is unclear if one can say Odysseus having a different name would change his fate. Also an interesting addition is that "αρά" in ancient greek (where the word polyaretos came from) means "prayer" but also means "pray against" aka "curse"
So even if Odysseus was named "Polyaretos" it could either mean "much prayed for" or "much cursed"
Either way Odysseus seems fucked 😆 as you said hahahahaha 🤣
Food for thought
That’s interesting !! Thanks for informing me of that - that actually sets up another facet of this theory, actually.
Had he been named Polyaretos instead of Odysseus, the two interpretations of him name would have been “much prayed for” or “much cursed”
The “much cursed” part is obvious - poor guy got screwed every chance the Fates got, basically. But also the “much prayed for”, because no doubt the many people he had left behind - Anticlea, Laertes, Ctimene, Penelope, even his son Telemachus - were all praying for his return during his ten years wandering
So, in a way, his fate really was sealed. Either way, the events of the Odysseus would have happened
My headcanon is that Nico is the first person to give Chiron a hug since Achilles all those years ago
I wonder if Achilles and Patroclus are down in the Underworld somewhere, just massively relieved that people have finally stopped trying to censor their relationship
Like I can just imagine what their reaction to TSOA would’ve been - not exactly accurate, but a step in the right direction !! Better than that slop movie that came out a little while ago anyways !!
Hey, fun fact. Odysseus’ name, Odysseus ? Yeah, that connects to the Greek verbs ὀδύσσομαι (odusommai) or “to hate”, ὀδύρομαι (oduromai), or “to lament” and even ὄλλυμι (ollumi) or “to be lost”
That’s sets up an interesting idea, because all Greek mythology revolves around this idea that fate is an unchangable thing. That your life’s story been set in stone long before you were born, that the Fates spun your yarn and marked its cutting-point centuries before your oldest ancestor came into this world
And nowhere is that better represented than here - Odysseus comes into the world with a name already marking him with the tragedy of the Odyssey. There was no avoiding this for him
However !! A point to be noted. His wet-nurse, Euryclea, actually suggested that he be named Polyaretos “for he has been much prayed for”. It was, in fact, his grandfather Autolycus who named him Odysseus, his reasons basically being “a lotta people pissed me off in life, so I’m gonna name you Piss-off”
So, I like to imagine that Autolycus actually unknowingly fucked his grandson over with that pun, and that if he had listened to Euryclea, the tragedies of the Odyssey could be avoided. In this essay I will
I love Odysseus because the interpretations of his character vary so greatly.
Like, with Diomedes, Achilles, Patroclus, and what have you, you have general baselines of what kind of person they are, and most adaptations tend to stick to them
Odysseus ? People just go buck-wild with his characterisations, like to a hilarious degree
Sometimes he’s a genial, story-telling merchant king with a penchant for killing and trickery.
Sometimes, he’s a wise old mentor with a wily bent, more akin to Phoinix and Nestor
Sometimes he’s an absolute rat bastard of a man, who’d sooner stab you in the back than shake your hand
Sometimes he’s a man, who, despite a penchant for lying and trickery, is ultimately a good person who loves his wife and family and longs to return home
Sometimes he’s a loving husband, who only sleeps with women other than his wife when put under duress and forced to
Sometimes he’s a womanizer, who, while he still loves his wife, sleeps with both Circe and Calypso willingly, without any form of coaxing or duress
It’s hilarious. Polytropos, indeed
You ever wonder if Odysseus regretted bringing Achilles and Patroclus into the war ? If he ever sat awake at night, and wondered what would have happened if he had never set foot on Skyros ?
If he ever looked at his own son, grown now, a man, and saw Achilles and Patroclus as they were, that fateful day ? Or as they now lie, cold and dead ?
Maybe after Telemachus has a son, he lays him on his bent knee - old and knobbly now, in a way Achilles and Patroclus never got to be, thanks to him - as his own grandfather did to him when he was a child, and named him Homer, a pledge, an unspoken oath. to two long-dead boys.
Your fame is hard-bought. I will ensure you get it. I will tell this boy your story - I will tell him every last detail. And he will ensure the world will never forget the greatest of the Greeks - Aristos Achaion - and his lover Achilles
I think the tragedy of Achilles and Patroclus becomes even more poignant when you remember Phoinix survives the war.
Imagine being Phoinix, aged and wise, and having to know that this boy you raised alongside your prince died because of what you told him. Having to realize that your beloved prince's broken, ruined state was because of your advice.
And then watching him die - watching him crave death as a starving man craves food - and having to watch as his son, the final, fragile remnants of your beloved ward, enters the battle that took his father, his animal brutality and cruelty
I think the fact that retellings of Greek Mythology are getting more popular is amazing, and I hope it inspires more adaptions of less well-known myths, because, frankly, I'm getting sick of the same three or four myths being used as representations of all Greek mythography
In the meantime, if you're looking for a good musical adaptation of the Iliad, allow me to direct you to the frankly underappreciated play - Aristos : The Musical
If you liked TSOA, you'll love it
Check it out on Youtube here
And on Tumblr here : https://www.tumblr.com/aristosmusical
One thing I don’t like about modern portrayals of the Greek myths is this tendency to portray Aphrodite as, essentially, either goddess Regina George, or a flat “girly-girl”, like honey no. (Again, valid interpretation- still not one I like)
This is a complex, multifaceted goddess - so multifaceted, in fact, that she had multiple forms and epithets, including at least one (1) male form named Aphroditus, usually depicted with an erect phallus
Aphrodite Ourania, the daughter of Ouranos, heavenly and spiritual and far separated from the works of man, goddess of the celestial love and homosexual desire
Aphrodite Apotrophia, the goddess of love in Thebes, who expelled from the hearts of man lust and sinful pleasure
Aphrodite Areia of Sparta, warlike and fierce, lover of Ares, the armored one. Worshipped through the Hybristica, when women took on the traditional roles of men
Aphrodite Pandemos, daughter of Zeus and Dione, goddess of common, sensual pleasure, worshipped alongside her companion Peitho, goddess of persuasion, goddess of heterosexual desire
She of the common man, whose sanctuary was erected by philosopher Solon and paid for by the escorts and prostitutes she was the patron goddess of - well, according to the records, mostly the hetairai, the high-class escorts, but I always assumed that that was because the pornai, their cheaper counterparts, simply couldn’t afford it
Melainis, the Black One. Androphanos, Killer of Men. Anosia, the Unholy One. Tymborychos, the Grave-digger, but also Eleemon, the Merciful, also Genetyllis, Mother, also Morpho, the Shapely
And so, so much more than “just a girly-girl” (not that there’s anything wrong with that interpretation)
The entire Greek camp was actually having sex with each other throughout the events of the Iliad. Homer told me so in a dream
