We Need to Talk about this
There is an aspect of the Deception Arc in the Clone Wars that is overlooked far too often, especially in posts which excuse ObI Wan's actions (most of them, let's be honest).
What Kenobi did was more that just LIE to Anakin.
He inflicted on him (and Ahsoka) the exact same pain and grief and trauma that the death of Qui Gon Ginn in Episode One bought to him. For all the fans talk about how much Obi Wan suffered, and make endless GIFs about his "infininite suffering" because his lost his Master and "father figure" - he inflicted exactly that on Anakin and Ahsoka Tano.
Like if you look closely, you can see tears welling up in Ahsoka's eyes as she cradles Obi Wan's "corpse". You can hear the despair and anguish in Anakin's voice as he calls his name and desperately tries to revive him. Actually, it may have been worse for them, because they were both younger than he was when Qui Gon died. Ahsoka was barely 16 and Anakin maybe- 22? Whereas he was 25.
The fact that WE as the audience instictively know Obi Wan isn't dead doesn't exonerate him of this. The characters don't know. Ahsoka and Anakin both think they have lost their best friend/Master, and the mentor figure who they looked up to. Anakin believes he has lost his BROTHER, the man who practically raised him.
This is exactly the same pain, the same suffering, the same level of torment and trauma that Obi Wan suffered when he lost Qui Gon. He meant as much to both of them as Qui Gon did to him.
So every single time you say that Anakin "had no right" to feel the way he did about Obi Wan's actions in the Deception Arc, it is exactly the same as saying that Obi Wan "had no right" to feel the way he did over the death of Qui Gonn.
Every time you condemn him for being "selfish" because he was upset and hurt, I reserve the right to deny and minimize Obi Wan's suffering.
The simple fact that Obi Wan was willing to inflict this on Anakin and Ahsoka, "for the mission" was beyond callous. He KNEW how it felt to lose a beloved Master/Mentor figure in to violence. He knew how it felt to hold him helplessly as he died, to weep over him.
He KNEW how much pain it would cause, but not only did he not show a modicom of sympathy , he judged Anakin for the way they felt. He USED him and Ashoka in the worst way possible.
Your constant attempts to exonerate Obi Wan of all wrongdoing during these Episodes by denying the pain that he inflicted on those who he supposedly loved, and gaslighting them represents everything that is wrong with this fandom.
My friend @selkiesstories mentioned this:
So what Obi Wan did to Anakin (and Ahsoka) in the first two Episodes of the Deception Arc could technically be considered a form of pyschological and mental torture.
Okay, since I got tagged on this...
Obi Wan has the unfortunate “honor” of setting an amazingly shitty precedent as far as the Jedi playbook. Namely, being a manipulative, lies by omission type in the name of “greater good.” He tells Luke all kinds of wonderful, fantastic stories about his Jedi Knight dad...and forgets to mention things like “that saber was used to slaughter every child in our temple,” “We left your grandma to rot in slavery,” and “That Sith I told you killed your dad...well, that part was metaphorical. He really is your dad, but we want you to go and kill him for us!”
(I know it was a retcon. And yes, it was understandable. It still made him look like a jerk. Good thing Luke inherited Padme’s temperament.)
So, this...yeah. It’s a very Obi Wan thing to do because some higher objective is on the line and a “good Jedi” by that era’s standards doesn’t place a high value on individual people (like your ex-Padawan and his Padawan), seeing them more as pieces on the proverbial dejarik board because the end goal of the hundreds of theoretical lives that can be saved is worth more. Likewise, manipulating Luke into a glorified wetworks op against his own dad is sketchy on an individual level, but getting rid of Vader and/or Palpy would be totally a greater good for the galaxy because...well, Palpy was just a bad dude all around.
It’s perfect detachment, a purely rational numbers game. Who cares if it brings up some old trauma for Obi Wan or hurts Anakin and Ahsoka? If they are “true” Jedi, then they will understand...right? Obi Wan was the “good Jedi” who carried out what his superiors told him and did not show any reaction to having to do it because “greater good” while Anakin was the “bad Jedi” who was hurt and upset by this action.
Thank you @allronix
This is perfect. It absolutely highlights the problem I have with the whole concept of "the greater good", especially in the context of Star Wars, and WHY.
Too many people think "the greater good" means the absolute moral good. It does not, and has NEVER meant that. It has always been a highly ambigious concept which people use to justify actions which they know are morally wrong. Which they know are deeply unethical and ****** up. Its also the basis which 2/3 of fandom uses for justifying, excusing and condoning every single questionable thing the Jedi Order ever did, and shaming those who questioned them for it. Easy to depict those on the recieving end as wicked and selfish.
Well that and the good old "g" word.
the worst part of the deception arc for me is that anakins pain wasn’t a side effect, it was the point. obi wan says TO HIS FACE that his grief was what sold it. also yeah, so much of the “detachment” and dedication to the order is about not showing any disagreement and emotion ever, not about not feeling them, because that would be impossible in some of the situations they’re put in. you can see clearly the difference between the obi wan who cries at qui gons death, who’s willing to shout at anakin on geonosis to make him see reason (although dooku was waiting for them and they should have gone back for padme i will die on this sand dune) and the obi wan who’s so agreeable he barely voices his concerns when the council makes anakin spy on palpatine, and doesn’t actively fight them on it at all.
also the funny thing about ‘the greater good’ being used as a defense of any and all morally questionable thing the jedi do, is that well, it didn’t fucking work. like unless you classify the jedi’s genocide and the rise of the empire, all the death and slavery that resulted from it and anakins fall as the greater good, or argue that the jedi, one of the most powerful factions in the galaxy, had absolutely no effect on events caused by a politician they visited every week and their own chosen one, (which actually a lot of people do try to tediously argue for in my notes), you have to concede that whether or not their intentions were good, the end result was terrible.
however, @allronix if we agree that the jedi’s treatement affected anakin negatively and (at least in part) caused him to act immorally, despite, or maybe because he came into the order late, as a person with a formed personality of his own, characterizing obi-wan, who was raised on their teachings and had no alternative to turn to, nothing to even compare their take on morality to, as “being manipulative and lying by omission” is a touch dishonest. he wasn’t manipulative for the fun of it, he was manipulated by the jedi into acting that way, into thinking it was fine. the cycle does not start with him. he lies to luke because the council lied to him all his life. he distanced himself from anakin because qui gon distanced himself from him to the point of leaving him in mortal danger.
Being a Legends canon fan (Disney, that kind of retcon shit didn't even work with Tron. It isn't gonna fly here...), there is so much that can be explained by it.
Just as a lot about Yoda can be explained by the fact he was raised and trained by a bunch of brutalized, militant PTSD cases who survived Ruusan's bloodbath, a lot about Obi Wan can be explained by his being given a one way ticket to Agricorps (and "rescued" by Qui Gon) from a dead end farming job seen more as a punishment or failure than "valued lay brother."
You can see where Obi Wan gets his loose relationship with the truth by watching Qui Gon pull some outrageous lines of bullshit, up to and including pretending to abandon Obi Wan to enemies during the Jedi Apprentice books. Obi Wan...not a stretch to see him as internalizing a *lot* of inferiority, which...Anakin did not help; raw talent (Obi Wan had to work his ass off to be half as good), Qui Gon's "Chosen One" gushing (with Obi Wan feeling like he was being tossed aside but too ashamed to voice protest), and Anakin's tendency for arrogance and rage (of which, Obi Wan got the brunt of it).
So he is thinking of himself as on eternal probation andbone screw up away from another one way ticket to Telos. Of course, he toes the line and does as he's told and dismisses any personal feelings. Yoda puts the burden on him and he learned a little too well from Qui Gon.
This was why it was a good thing that Luke Skywalker reformed the system after Yoda and Obi Wan died/got killed. He had enough of sanity and stability from living a healthy and normal childhood beforehand to realize that the Jedi had a pretty fucked up rule about the “no attachments” thing, and showed them that it was wrong. However, he also didn’t turn on them because he saw that they had good intentions, so he defied their rules, while also still proving that he could be a good person and a good Jedi. At least it was until they ruined it in the sequels to make Rey Sue look better as a Jedi.
@gch1995 I think you make some good points although I am not personally convinced Rey is a Mary Sue. I think Obi Wan is more of a Sue than Rey.
Rey actually has some flaws... but I digress.
As much as fandom wants it, this "no attachments" thing ain't in the Original Trilogy, and for all they wanna blame Anakin not being raised as a Jedi for his fall, they forget the canonical Greatest Jedi Luke Skywalker was not raised as one either. t
Maybe that's why they're trying to replace Luke and say he's not the "perfect Jedi" anymore? Or just diminish his significance with that nonsense in some of the Vader comics.
Thankyou. That is the reason why I have always had a problem with the concept of "the greater good", long before entering SW fandom. "The Greater Good" TM is a convenient justification for questionable, immoral and even outright evil actions, and it always has been.
Governments use it to justify the persecution of minorities, the extermination of entire people groups. The other thing, and its deeply problematic, is the way people in fandom will use the whole "YOU SUPPORT THE ENEMY!" argument if you question their justification if immoral deeds on that basis.
I actually posted on this the other day, when someone was outright justifying Jedi war crimes, and another user reminded them that there is no such thing as righteous people in war.
They actually remind me of the ones who screamed that anyone who didn't support the indefinite detention of terror suspects and rumoured use of torture by Western governments was a terrorist supporter at the time of the second Gulf War.
When will people actually learn that not everything the Jedi do is legitimate and righteous just because they do them? Like just because the "good" guy does something, it automatically make it right.
My own two cents is that Obi Wan Kenobi never intended to tell Luke Skywalker Vader was his father, because he didn't want him to be swayed by inconvenient familial feelings. This whole "he was just waiting until he was ready" nonsense is based on a short story in one of the new From a Certain Point of View collections. What people don't understand is that its purely Obi Wan rationalizing his own actions to himself.
Maybe that, or Obi-Wan (who spent twenty years alone in a desert) was too shaken by trauma to actually accept the truth. This isn’t a justification, just a possible explanation. He could have made up that lie long ago and believed it himself to a certain point. He was already dead when he had that talk with Luke on Dagoba, and even then he no longer believed that Anakin was more than a soulless machine. Despite all of his morally wrong actions he suffered much more than he deserved to, in my opinion, and so did every other surviving Jedi because…well, seeing literally everything you’ve ever known and loved turn to ash…nobody deserves order 66. And his suffering, along with the loneliness, left trauma and could even have altered his original perception of it.
