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Two Sides of a Bridge

@greatqueenanna / greatqueenanna.tumblr.com

Frozen Fan Analyst. Member of Arendelle Archives. See Menu for News and Updates, Analyses Guide, and Bio.
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Anonymous asked:

I occasionally come across posts that claim that Frozen 2 is racist. One example being is Iduna herself, how she was retconned to be indigenous despite her white presenting self. Another is a video I saw on TikTok saying how they had her marry Aganrr aka her colonizer (even though I sincerely doubt Agnarr would follow what Runeard tried to do her people). And another time I saw a Youtube comment saying how the Northuldra are not Saami but Native Americans cosplaying as Saami.

My viewpoint on this topic is this -

If you are not Sámi, then I don't think it is appropriate to speak on how well the representation was done. We should let the Sámi voice their own opinions, and not try to interject our own biases or talk over them. This goes for both negative and positive comments.

I understand where people are coming from here. All they want is to make sure that a group of people are being represented well and respected. They want to be sure that Disney is not just trying to cash in on a half-assed job at representation at the expense of a group that was often marginalized, discriminated against, and colonized.

However, I do think that when we try to defend on behalf of others, we often create problems that were not considered one in the first place, due to our own biases. What do I mean?

I often bring @hb-pickle's post (linked below), where she emailed Professor Veli-Pekka Lehtola, one of the people on the Sámi Advisory group that helped work on F2. He gave incredible insight on the development of F2, and was very happy with the work they did and the treatment they received.

He mentions within his response three main concerns they had during development.

  1. That Yelena was a villain at first.
  2. That the Northuldran attire was at first even more vague than it is now, and looked more like a non-specific arctic attire.
  3. That the Reindeers were running in a circle at the end, as this was not realistic.

You can read the original response to see more details on these and how the team navigated them.

Out of these three issues - not one of them is about Iduna saving and marrying her 'colonizer', or about Iduna presenting white. These issues are things that are brought up mostly by western audiences. Thus, western audiences are creating a problem , and thus speaking over the group they are trying to protect.

In fact, even the film team did this to some extent. With the second issue that I mentioned above, the film team explained to the advisors that the reason they did not want to specifically represent Sami clothing and colors with the Northuldra, is because they did not want to 'culturally appropriate' them.

Thus, the team was making a decision on what the Sami should consider offensive, much like how western audiences are doing the same with Iduna's character.

I would advise seeking out Sami opinions. I have linked some articles below that you can check out.

The last link is from a tumblr blog that is now closed. However, you can get a little bit of info from this user before the read more, unless someone has their full article somewhere.

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I’m bored and I really enjoy your opinions on Disney, so I thought you might have something interesting to say to get my brain ticking. I came across a post on Frozen and I was like, “Ah, a perfect starting place for dropping you an ask.” I’ve never really been that bothered by Frozen and I don’t know what it is that I’m just not fond about. Maybe it’s that I dislike the characters? Maybe it’s that they didn’t really have any established rules for the way magic worked in that universe and thus had anything they wanted happening? Maybe it’s the twist villain? I don’t know, it’s probably just the characters that they tried to make so cool and girlboss!

Elsa is made out to be this awesome protagonist that is never in the wrong and that grates me. She has flaws, but the film doesn’t act like they’re flaws. She runs away out of fear and shame for not being able to control her powers, but then two seconds later she’s singing “Let It Go” and making giant ice castles and bringing snowmen to life?! And “Let It Go” is super annoying for the fact that Elsa starts off worried and upset (fair enough, she’s just ran away from her home, her kingdom, her sister whom she hasn’t seen in years, she lost control of her powers) but then immediately turns round and is like, “Actually, it’s not my fault and I’m fine as I am and I don’t need any of those responsibilities!” Which would be fine, but she also finishes the film with the same attitude!

Anna, too! Naive and optimistic and perhaps a little too trusting, she never realises that even if Han hadn’t turned out evil, Elsa had every right to be worried over their marriage. She never realises that it’s partly her fault for revealing Elsa’s powers (and she definitely doesn’t apologise). There’s a lot she doesn’t realise, and the only lesson she takes away from it all is that Christoff loves her instead of Han.

Oh my days, I’ve just realised how ridiculously long this has gotten, super sorry! Have a lovely day!

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Let’s do this! For fun!

1. They don't need to establish exhaustive rules for how magic works in their world.

Red Riding Hood doesn't explain how the Big Bad Wolf can talk-it just explains that he can. Cinderella doesn't explain how Fairy Godmothers work, or why the spell should only last until midnight—it just explains that she casts one, and it does only last until midnight. Beauty & the Beast does not explain how, after The Beast has died, the "breaking of the curse" could bring him back to life. After Belle confesses her love, he should just go from dead beast to dead human, for all the explanation they give.

Beauty & the Beast also famously refuses to explain (explicitly) why all of the household were cursed, along with the castle and the Prince. But what it does explain is, "there's a curse, it was put in place because of a defect in the Prince's character, and there's a time limit on it's ability to be removed, which can only happen if the defect in his character is overcome."

The whole point of having magic in the story is just as a tool...to create a plot. You don't have to explain everything; you just have to explain what will affect the characters. So, Frozen says, very plainly in the beginning: "you can either be born with magical powers or cursed with them in this world, and trolls are the experts on how magical powers work. The way Elsa's specific magical powers work is, they're beautiful, but powerful, and they're tied to her emotions. Therefore, if her negative emotions control her, her negative emotions control those powers. Also, if you're struck with magical powers in the head, the effects can be removed with memory alteration. If you're struck with magical powers in the heart, the effects can only be removed by an act of True Love.

Also, here's an explanation of what counts as 'True Love." They actually do way more explaining than the average fairy tale. And they set you up really nicely to receive that explanation by having the opening scene be a song that describes Ice Magic as “beautiful/powerful/dangerous/cold/ice has a magic can't be controlled.” Etc.

If you were wondering what limits there are on Elsa's powers, and whether or not she can just make anything out of ice, and how it's possible for her to bring inanimate snow to life

—well, you're focusing on the wrong things for this kind of story.

It's not that important for a fairy tale like this one. In a superhero story, limitations on powers would be important. Because the point of a superhero story is, "how am I going to take selfless responsibility for what I'm able to do?" And if you don't know the boundaries on "what I'm able to do," then you can't communicate that point clearly. That's why we need to know that Superman can see through just about everything, but not lead. That's why you need to know that Elastigirl can't stretch in the cold. You can't know how to take responsibility for your abilities if you don't know what they are and are not.

But Elsa? The point of Elsa having powers is not as a metaphor for her unique skills. That's what it would be in a superhero movie.

Like, in superhero movies, Spidey's ability to stick to walls is supposed to be a reference to like, your ability to...l don't know, draw really well. How is Spidey going to use his ability to stick to walls for the good of others = how are you going to use your ability to draw for the good of others, because it's something special and unique to you, you have something to offer, are you going to use it selflessly, etc.

But for Elsa, that's not what it's about. Her powers are just a metaphor for how what's going on inside of her effects everyone around her, relationally. And it's still relatable. But not in a "skills" way. Just like all of us non-superpowered people: "if you let fear control you, you'll hurt everyone around you. But if you let love cast out fear, you'll love and be loved."

That's what's so good about this movie. When you look at it like that, you realize the powers aren’t the point.

Elsa isolates because she thinks that'll keep her from hurting everyone (fear controls her) but actually, by isolating, she's still hurting everyone-nobody in the kingdom gets to see their beloved ruler, and her sister is hurt, relationally, and feels unloved and shut-out, enough to trust the first scoundrel she meets-etc. See how the powers just make the story interesting, but they're not the point of the story? If Elsa's powers were replaced by "frantic outbursts of human temper" the story could be told in a lot of the same ways. But that's a post for another time.

So I don't think you disliked it because of the powers not being "established." "Whatever they wanted to have happen" did not happen, in the story. They laid out the rules that were relevant—“if fear controls you, it'll lead to great danger/but an act of true love can thaw a frozen heart."—and then they followed those rules in an interesting and consistent way.

2. The "twist" villain worked perfectly for the story.

A good villain is supposed to be the opposite of whatever your story's message is. Frozen's is, "Self-Sacrificial Love Casts Out Fear." Elsa is afraid she'll hurt everyone around her, and afraid that makes her unloveable-so she's a control freak over her circumstances. Anna is also afraid she's unloveable-simply because she's shut out and unknown-so she's always trying to control who she keeps in her life. Hans is both "unknown" and "controlling." He's "unknown" in two ways—1, nobody sees him in the shadows of his brothers in his own kingdom, and 2, nobody in Arendelle "knows" his true nature, especially not Anna. But the difference is, where our heroes don't like being unknown, Hans does, and uses it to his advantage, because he's also "controlling." But unlike our heroes, who learn that "control" is not the way to love, Hans is willing to do anything to stay in control. Which is, always, rooted in fear, too. Hans is just afraid he'll never get a throne. So. You see that he foils the two main characters perfectly.

But the main point of Hans is that he's not self-sacrificial, he's self-serving, which is the opposite of what the story claims "True Love" is.

Why's the "twist" part important? Because he uses the main characters' fears as a weapon to serve himself, and he couldn't have done that, for these two particular characters, by being anything but a liar. Anna is afraid she won't ever be loved, so he pretends to love her to get something for himself. Elsa is afraid she'll hurt everyone, so Hans pretends to be protecting everyone from her. And honestly, that's another core of the movie-love that is self-sacrificial, true love, can't be separated from truth. Anna can't really "truly love" Elsa in a way that HELPS Elsa feel loved if she doesn't know Elsa's flaws. Elsa can't "truly love" Anna if she's refusing to know Anna by always shutting her out. And Hans comes along and doesn't let himself be "truly known." Perfect.

So, the movie says "Self-Sacrificial Love Casts Out Fear" and Hans, the villain, says, "Self-Service Uses Fear As a Weapon."

So I don't think you disliked the "twist" villain. Because it wasn't just an empty "shock-jock, look how edgy we are, to make the Prince the bad guy" move. It was the right move, for this story and these characters.

3. I think your definition of "so cool" and "girlboss" might be different from what l understand those terms to mean, because none of the characters fit those descriptions.

Anna (as we understand her throughout the story) is introduced like this:

And she's constantly dropping stuff and getting into awkward social situations-and she basically makes zero correct decisions, for the entire adventure. Tries to fight wolves like a girlboss-and instead accidentally knocks her guide out of the sleigh and has to be thrown to safety while she ruins his livelihood. Tries to climb a cliff with zero experience-looks ridiculous and falls. Tries to talk her sister into lifting a curse and insists that she knows best because her sister would never hurt her-gets crippled, because her sister absolutely does hurt her, and totally fails. Tries to marry a handsome prince-really bad judgement of character, totally duped, basically would've died without help from the weakest and most mentally-confused character in the movie, Olaf. The only "girlboss" moment you could argue she had was punching Hans in the face at the end of the movie, and I would argue that that one moment, in the face of all her failures and humiliation throughout the movie, and in the face of him as a vile villain? That moment is okay.

Also, the whole way they pace that moment is still in-character for Anna. It's still like she's not doing the "dignified" thing. She delivers her little one liner, "the only frozen heart around here is you," and then turns around to walk away with her nose in the air, like she's

"above it all." Which frames the moment where she turns around and punches him like a joke. It frames that moment like it's a satisfying, but still "not decorous, not dignified," thing to do. It would've been "cool" and poorly received if Anna, the character who's always jumping into doing the emotional, awkward thing, had suddenly become the bigger person and risen above her hurt in that moment.

So instead, she punches him. And whatever. He deserved it, blah blah blah. The point is, even that moment isn’t supposed to be strictly “cool” or “girlboss.” It’s just supposed to be “in-character funny.”

See, usually a "girlboss" character knows exactly what the best thing to do is in a situation, and does it well. Or, she gets knocked down, but consistently gets back up and hits harder. Anna does not do any of those things. She keeps trying when she fails, yeah-but it's not because of an inner strength, it's because of an inner weakness. She keeps pushing because she's desperate, and insecure, not because she's awesome and never-say-die. Eventually, after Elsa strikes her and Hans betrays her, Anna does give up. She tells the snowman "we won't (come back.)" after Elsa strikes her. She tells Olaf she doesn't know what love is. It's not until she learns that lesson that anything she tries to do works—and she gives herself up to do it. And that's finally a moment of strength from her, not weakness. As for "cool"-gimme a break.

There's nothing "cool" about Anna. Anna's not good at anything except, at the very end, self-sacrificially standing in front of a sword and getting one punch in on a villain who's already disarmed, defeated and probably slightly concussed anyway. She's not supposed to be "cool" or "girlboss." She's supposed to be "Desperate to Love and Be Loved." And that's what she is, perfectly. "Desperate" is not a characteristic that fits the definition "girlboss" or "cool."

But maybe you just meant "Elsa is so cool and a girlboss." Okay, well, again, depends on what you mean by that. If you mean "having superpowers are cool" okay, well, are they? Is that what the movie is telling you? Because powers basically ruin all of Elsa's childhood and life until the last 3 minutes of the movie. You could be like "come on, she can make snow and ice monsters, glitter gowns, and an entire palace just by dancing. They totally tried to make her 'cool." That's like saying Simba's ability to eat bugs and belch and fight with Nala is "cool." She does all those things at her "Character in the WRONG" moment, in the story, just like Simba living in the Hakuna Matata jungle. Therefore the movie is not trying to tell you that Elsa is cool, it's trying to tell you that Elsa is wrong, but you can understand why she's wrong. You can understand why she feels triumphant for a moment-and then the movie shows you that triumph is misplaced.

I mean, she's taken out by her own falling chandelier. Every time she's confronted with a problem, she runs away. When she gets into "battles of wits," she says the wrong thing, or the shy, shut-down thing, not a girlboss one-liner that shuts the other person up. Elsa's not cool either. She doesn't have the answers, she doesn't save the day-she gets saved.

Both of these characters are desperate, open wounds-—they're needy and they're in the wrong, each in their own way, for the majority of the movie. They're weak, and they have to learn to find strength in love, for most of their story. There's nothing "girlboss" or "cool" about them.

I think maybe what some people make the mistake of is noticing the Frozen mania, and the fact that the two main characters are girls and one of them has superpowers and they other doesn't get with a Prince, and then they get the impression, from that, that the characters are "cool girlbosses." But like...that's like saying Dory from the first Finding Hemo movie is a girlboss. She's so totally not. She's a wreck. A funny, appealing, sometimes-relatable-human wreck. And a good character, but the hype doesn't change who she is, as a character. And who she is, like Anna and Elsa, is just a good character.

4. Elsa does not finish Let it Go with an "I'm Fine As I Am" attitude, and she doesn't finish the movie that way, either.

She finishes "Let it Go" with an "I'm fine up here, isolated from everyone," attitude. And then the movie very quickly proves her wrong by having Anna show up and reveal to her that no, actually, she is not fine up there, because the person she cares about most can still find her and be hurt by her, and the whole kingdom is still reeling from the problems she ran away from.

At the end of the movie the only thing I can guess you got the impression that she's "fine as she is" from was the fact that she's using her powers again.

But like. Elsa's whole problem was never her powers. She wasn't supposed to learn to stop using them. She was supposed to learn to stop living in fear. Instead, she was supposed to lean on love-love that sacrifices for her, flaws and dangerousness and all-and stop trying to control her image and what everyone knows about her.

Because in trying to control what everyone knows about her, she was controlling whether or not they loved her or treated her like a monster. And even running away and singing Let It Go was still an effort to control everything-by not being around people who could treat her like a monster or be hurt by her. Instead, accepting that she might hurt people because she can't always control everything, and trusting that they'll still love and forgive her, was her character arc.

She lives by faith in sacrificial love by the end, not by fear. That's the arc. She does that perfectly.

It was never, "I'm fine as I am." Because the point was never "there's* something wrong with me." It was, "I don't need to fear a lack of control, because true love covers what I can't control." That's all.

4. Anna does communicate to the audience that she's sorry and willing to understand the reasons behind Elsa's secrets.

The lesson Anna takes away from all of this is not "which guy loves me." It's "what is love?" And you know she's learned that because she demonstrates it. If Anna had died-frozen forever-or been cut down by Hans' sword, you realize that Elsa would never have been able to repay that gesture, right? But Anna still made that choice.

Even though it meant Elsa would never repay her. And the point is — excuse me, I know this is long enough, but I feel like you're missing out on something wonderful here—

Anna could have left Elsa to be killed and ridden off into the sunset with Kristoff.

They make it very clear that that is her goal when she stumbles onto the ice, free from the room Hans trapped her in. Elsa is no longer her motivation. She isn't looking for Elsa. She's not trying to get that love she's looked for, from Elsa, in that moment. She's trying to get it from Kristoff, not just for her emotional need-but for the "breaking of the curse" that's killing her in the moment. That whole scene where she realizes he loves her-truly loves her, because he fits the description Olaf gives-is in there to communicate to the audience that he could save her. He could give her what she needs.

And the reason that's important is that it proves that this is character development: when she chooses not to go to Kristoff, and to go to Elsa instead.

Because it's her, choosing to turn away from the person who could give her something (even if it is "love") and to turn toward the person who can't give her something (Elsa.) Who has repeatedly failed to give her something, for their entire lives.

Anna at the beginning of the movie would've run to Kristoff. That was the whole point of Hans, when it comes to Anna-he represents someone who can fulfill a need in Anna. But when Anna turns away from Kristoff and runs to save Elsa instead, Anna is demonstrating what she's learned —that love isn't about her own needs. It's putting someone else's needs before yours. She stands between Hans and Elsa, with the full expectation that she's not going to get anything out of it, not even a guarantee of E/sa's love in return. And her own needs will NOT get met if she puts Elsa's first.

And that's what she does. Whereas, at the beginning of the film, Anna would not have done that. Because that's not what she thinks love is. She hasn’t realized that yet.

She thinks love means closeness. And that does come with love. But that's not love. Love is, like Olaf says, putting someone else's needs before yours. But the whole movie, Anna is not working to put Elsa's needs before her own. She's working to change Elsa's mind, now that she knows the truth, so that she and Elsa can be "close again." She's climbing that mountain and arguing with Elsa, because she thinks that all that stood in their way before was this secret that's been uncovered. And sure, Anna has always been willing to “be there for” Elsa, but you have to see that Anna wanted that to come with Elsa being there for her, in return.

Which would be nice. But it's not true love. True love is being there for someone even when they refuse to be there for you. Because that's putting their needs before yours.

Thanks for the super long ask! That was fun! I hope you enjoyed reading as much as l enjoyed writing-I think sometimes we judge Frozen by the mania that followed, not the good quality that actually caused the mania, and deserved the mania, though. Anyway 😂

Guards! Take them away! Back to the theater with you! Watch the movie again!

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vuelie

Fairytale Character (Anna) vs. Mythic Character (Elsa)

Both girls were 21 when they lost each other to death. And I keep bringing this up - but it all has to do with their arcs as mythic (Elsa) vs. fairy tale (Anna) characters. I’ll elaborate.

21-year-old children queens derailed by grief with no existing family member left. 

And I say queen(s) because Anna became Arendelle’s queen the very moment Elsa died. 

So Anna’s 21 now, and Elsa’s reign started just a little bit earlier than her. Elsa became “Your Majesty” when she was 18. She was a kid, afraid of her powers, crippled by anxiety and loneliness from wanting to be with Anna yet choosing to stay away because she wanted to protect her.

Leading up to Frozen’s finale where Hans’ tries to kill Elsa, it makes sense - to me at least - that Elsa succumbed to defeat. There was nothing and no one to really live for. What was the point? Her kingdom thinks she’s a monster, she was hunted down and locked up in chains like a beast by those who once revered her as queen - and if she does choose to live, she’d have to do it in hiding and in fear all over again. She’d live a life with her name tainted as the monster who killed her own sister, and there’ll be a bounty on her head: kill the beast and end this winter! (whoa, that gave me Beauty & The Beast vibes). But Elsa doesn’t even know how to do that even if she desperately wanted to. And that’s the saddest part about it all. 

Even in isolation and in death, Elsa was destined to tragedy. A mythic character’s fate.

She also had the (false) security that Anna married Hans and that the kingdom will at least have a ruler that they could trust - a ruler who tried to do what’s right by killing the monster who killed the princess and sunk Arendelle into an eternal winter. Even in death, Elsa was fulfilling her duties as a queen by letting her reign end so that Arendelle could have a shot to a sunny (literally) future…. and justice for Anna’s death based on Hans’ (a heartbroken ‘lover’) narrative.

How Anna deals with her grief is different from Elsa’s because Anna was already rooted in a secure place before all of that happened. In Frozen 1,  Elsa had absolutely nothing and she was grieving Anna’s death with immense guilt. As the fairy tale character leading up to her loss, Anna had her taste of a happy ending - her kingdom is (was) safe, her family is (was) united, and she has (had) her prince. Elsa’s arc before Frozen 2 was filled with anxiety, pain, separation, and false happiness. 

The reason why Queen Anna didn’t succumb to grief and loss like Elsa did was because she had a lot to lose even after Elsa’s death. Her kingdom and everything she knew was going be be wiped away, and she still needed to do what was morally right. Elsa was going to die under Hans’ sword thinking she was doing what was right. And in Frozen 2, she died in Ahtohallan trying to stop what had already happened in the past.

And Anna was the only heir left. Kristoff can’t take her place because they didn’t marry yet, so Anna had no choice but to live for the sake of Arendelle. And Anna thought Kristoff had abandoned her - so she really was alone in all this. This is why she had an entire song about choosing to take another step even when the gravity of loss weighs her down. And as a fairy tale character, Anna is a fixer (listen to the FtFtiF reprise where she sings about literally fixing the storm with Elsa). This has been consistent throughout her arc in Frozen 1 as opposed to Elsa who’s bound to run away from her problems due to extreme self-fear and anxiety.  Unlike Elsa, Anna comes out as the hero after all of this - the fairy tale character arc. A hero that has everything and nothing all at once. It’s empty accolades. Anna didn’t cause any eternal winter, does not have magic, and certainly was not responsible for Runeard’s betrayal - she’s righteous as default to be a hero. The tragic, mythic character does not and will not have the same ending as Anna would if her arc and her story was isolated from the fairy tale character’s. This is so important and this is why they’re one bridge. Their stories would both be void without each other. 

This is why Anna had an entire song about her grief about losing Elsa. 

Elsa did not have her own song about her own grief… because Frozen 1 was her entire The Next Right Thing.  And that song started to play for her when she was 8 years old. Every step she took right after the accident was a careful, deliberate one to keep Anna safe. 

Take a step, step again - it is all that I can to do the next right thing. 

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Norse mythology in the Frozen universe: How it's all connected | Part 1 | Analysis | Theory

What if I told you Norse mythology is not a stranger to the Frozen universe but rather a very familiar companion? What if I told you that it's all connected and this is not something out of the blue? It's true!

Last night I came across @humongoustreemoon's post (thank you for this!) and it hit me - it got me investigating and going back to theories from Frozen I! There are old Norse runes and Norse mythology all over the place in the two movies and they could be the clues to finding out what we're in for in Frozen 3 and 4. Please stick with me.

This is going to be a long post but I'll break it down to a part one and two.

[long post alert]

Norse mythology in Frozen I

The book

Okay so the very first piece of ancient language that we get is from book cover of the very book that Agnarr goes to find that leads them to the troll valley at the beginning of the movie.

Runes of Knowledgeable [magic] book cover

These runes are of Nordic runes from Norse mythology which is German is mythology. The book reads "ᚱᚢᚾᚬᛦ ᚠᛁᚢᛚᚴᚢᚾᛁᚴᛦ" or “runąR fiulkunikRa”, “Rúnar Fjǫlkunnigra” in proper Old Norse which translates as “Runes of Knowledgeable [in magic]". I tried to translate it myself but it was hard to find the right alphabet and get the right translation. Chrome browser may not render runic font properly or Google apparently. So most of the translations in this post are based on Panya's blog on deciphering the runes.

Then we look at a specific page inside the book.

A page of Runes of Knowledgeable [magic]

Apparently some of the lines in this book are repeated. The lines in old Norse are:

1. ᛋᛏᛅᛁᚾ ᚠᚢᛏᚢ ᚢᛅᛚᛏᛅᛦ ᛏᚢᚴᛚᛅᚼᛁᛘᛁᚾᛋᛁᛋ ᚦᛅᚢ

2. ᛏᚱᚢᛚᛁᚾ ᛅᚠ ᛋᚢᛅᚱᛏᛅᚠᛁᛅᛚᛅᚱᛁᚴᛁ ᛅᛁᚴᚢ

3. ᛚᛅᚴᚾᛁᛋᚼᚬᛏᛦ ᛋᚢ ᚬᛏ ᛁᛋ ᛅᚠ ᚴᛅᛚᛏᚱᛁ ᛋᛅᚱ

4. ᛘᚾ ᚴᚱᚢᚦᛅ ᛁᚠ ᚠᚢᚱᚦ ᛅᛚᛒᚱᛅᚦᛚᛁᚴᛅ ᛏᛁᛚ

5. ᚢᛅᛚᛅᛦᛁᛋ ᚦᛅᛁᛦᛅ ᛏᚱᚢᛚ ᛅᛁᚴᚢ ᚦᛅ ᚾᚬᛏᚢᚱᚢ

6. ᛅᛏ ᚦᛅᚢ ᚠᛅ ᛅᛚᚬᚾ ᚴᛅᛚᛏᚱ ᛅᚠᚦᛁᚱᚦᚬᚾ[ᛚ]

7. ᚢᛦ ᚴᚢᚴᚢᛚᛁᚴᛁ ᚾᛁᛘᚬ ᛅᛁᚾ ᚦᚢᛁ ᛏᛅᚦ ᚴᛅᚱ

8. ᛁ ᚢᛚᚢᚴᛁᚾᛁ ᛅᛋᛏ ᛁᛋ ᛋᚢ ᛅᛁᚾᚬ ᛁᛋ ᚠᛅᛦ

9. ᛅᚠᚦᛁᚱᚦᚬᚾ[ᛚ] ᚼᛁᛅᚱᛏᛅ ᚴᚱᚢᛏ ᛅᛚᛒᚱᛅᚦᛚᛁᚴᛅ

In the blog, they try to translate it as:

1. Stone brought fourth by powers of moon and sky, they,

2. the Trolls from the dark mountain realm, have

3. healing hands. A soul which from cold wounded

4. will heal if brought very quickly to

5. the field of them. Trolls have those nature

6. that they get all sorcery thaw

7. out of approached body to save one. Such action done

8. in true love is only which can

9. thaw heart stoned very quickly quickly.

Making sense, the text says: The Stone (heart) brought fourth by the powers of moon and sky, they, the Trolls from the dark mountain realm, have healing hands. A soul which is cold wounded (struck by the cold powers) will heal if brought very quickly to the field of theirs (the Troll valley). Trolls have the nature that they get thaw for all sorcery out of approached body to save one. Such action can be done by true love only which can thaw heart stoned (heart) very quickly.

It's like what happened with Anna. Anna had been struck by Elsa's "moon and sky" (ice) powers which led Agnarr to quickly go to the Troll valley so the trolls could heal Anna, the cold wounded. Trolls seem to be known to somewhat heal and know the thaw for sorcery magic like such. Pabbie was able to heal Anna's head but had warned the family of being struck in the heart with the powers. For Anna's situation years later, Pabbie told them the cure was true love.

Next to the text page is this image:

It shows a troll healing a royal man/ soldier by taking out a blue misty magic (the same moon and sky/ ice magic Elsa has) from his head and right above it is the northern lights. This could be what happened with Anna, the trolls were seen taking out ice magic from his head and changing up her memories. The Northern lights were used as a visual projection for Grand Pabbie's prediction abilities.

The northern lights will play a huge role in Frozen 3 and 4 I think, just like in Frozen. When Anna sees them in the sky she believes the sky is awake, and Olaf too says the same.

The concept art for Frozen 3 shows that mysterious white castle and the northern lights around it. My theory is that the northern lights are magical and are part of the trolls magic. So troll magic = Northern lights magic. I know this might not make sense right now but let's look at it differently. When it came to the trolls, King Agnarr was very familiar with them and knew all about them. They seem to be a part of Arendelle history. It could be that Norse mythology is part of Arendelle's history which is Agnarr's side of the family, just like Sami culture was part of the Enchanted forest's history from Iduna's side of the family. Frozen 2 explored Iduna's background while Frozen 3 could be exploring Agnarr's background.

The map

Then we have a map that falls out of the book which leads to the Troll valley. In Nordic runes it says “ᛏᚱᚢᛚ” or “trul” which is menas “Troll”.

There's a map compass-like sign at the top left hand corner of the map which resembles the Viking protection symbol the Helm of the Awe in Norse mythology.

So it seems like Agnarr's ancestry is Norse mythology/ Viking heritage as Iduna's was Sami culture.

The memorial stones

A little while later in the movie, when Anna goes to her parents burial, there are runes on their graves.

The left stone reads:

ᛁᚦᚢᚾ ᛏᚱᚢᛏᚾᛁᚴ

ᛏᚢ I

ᚼᛅᚠᛁ

This translates to:

Queen Iduna

She died in the/ at sea

The left stone reads similar:

ᛅᚴᚦᚬᚱ ᚴᚢᚾᚢᚴᛦ

ᚼᚬᚾ ᛏᚢ I ᚼᛅᚠᛁ

Translates to:

King Agnarr

He died in the/ at sea

In Panya's blog, she says that these aren't grave stones but memorial stones as they didn't find their bodies. I don't know why we never thought of this. They never found their bodies - how could that have? Iduna and Agnarr died in the dark sea and their ship was washed to shore in the enchanted forest all the while the forest was still trapped in the mist. No one could've gotten in or out. And the Northuldra and Arendellian soldiers seem clueless to their deaths which means they never discovered the ship or if they did they didn't find any bodies with the ship. (Brb I'm gonna cryy!)

So I'm gonna go with their conclusion of this theory that Agnarr's ancestry is Norse mythology.

The wedding book

Anyways, next and the last we see the runes in the movie is on a book held by a small troll when they try to wed Anna and Kristoff.

The book reads “ᛏᚱᚢᛚ”, and “Troll” in English.

Powers of the moon and sky

But before I move onto Frozen 2's Nordic rune sightings, I wanna refer back to this, we're a troll is scene healing an Arendellian.

Some believe this is an ancestor of Agnarr who was hit by ice magic. This could be true. It would make sense why Agnarr was so familiar with magic and the trolls. But this ancestor was hit by the magic of the sky and moon meaning that Elsa wasn't the first with the ice and snow magic, which then could mean that there was indeed a previous fifth spirit who also had powers like Elsa at the time of this recorded incident. It's unknown if there were two parts of the fifth spirit, one with powers like Elsa and one without like Anna. I would say there wasn't but after seeing the chaos that King Runeard caused, Ahotohallan believed the fifth spirit should be divided into two with one being powerless so that peace with humans could be made between the magical. Runeard probably hated magic partly for this very reason, that it is dangerous and he fears the unknown. With frozen we learn that if anyone fears the unknown, the magical, they try to destroy it and hunt it down. Runeard feared the magic in the enchanted forest and Arendellians or at least the council feared Elsa's magic so they tried to destroy it until it was Anna who ultimately saved the days and restored peace between humans and the magical. Elsa couldn't have done her part in saving Arendelle and the forest if it wasn't for Anna. That's why both are the fifth spirit.

And the book mentions that the powers are of the moon and sky. That sounds very similar to Tangled where Rapunzel's flower was from the drop of the sun. Tangled takes place in Germany so it could have tied with Norse mythology having Frozen and Tangled connected in not only the same universe but with Norse mythology too. But in Frozen 2 we learn that Ahotohallan was the source of all (elemental) magic and is a frozen river/ a glacier. It could be that it was just being metaphorical as ice relates to the moon and sky with how cold it is. In the D23 panel, we're given the question of who gave Elsa her powers? Now where did it come from because we got that answered. It's who? Ahotohallan isn't actually a being. It's a magical source. Could it be that the who is linked to Agnarr's Norse mythology ancestry? Maybe it's related to the previous Fifth spirit that gave the Arendellian the cold wound. I don't think the Fifth spirit is someone from Agnarr's ancestry but I could be wrong, especially if his ancestry relates to Norse mythology where runes are included. The spirits symbols are runic so it could be from Iduna's side too. Perhaps the two sides are connected!?

Trolls' realm

As for the trolls, I believe the Trolls are part of his culture, with the Old Norse runes. They are revealed in the runed book to come from a Dark mountain realm. For those who have no idea what realms are kingdoms/ holes to different species and gods. It's like a different world basically. Realms are included in Norse mythology but the Dark mountain realm isn't a named realm in the nine realms of Norse mythology. The nine realms are

Asgard

Midgard

Vanaheim

Jotunheim

Alfheim

Nidavellir

Niflheim and Muspelheim

Helheim

I did some research and it seems like Jotunheim or Jötunheimr is the "dark mountain" realm that contains dark forests and mountain peaks where winter never is neverending. But it's a home to giants. In Scandinavian folklore, trolls are giant, monstrous beings, sometimes possessing magic powers and in old Norse, Trolls dwell in isolated mountains, rocks, and caves and are rarely described as helpful or friendly.

In the Frozen universe the trolls aren't giants but are rocks themselves and they live near an isolated mountain, being the North mountain where it's wintery. Except they are always friendly and helpful and are known to heal those wounded by sorcery magic. The realm they're from is called the Dark mountain realm. It sounds similar to Jötunheimr.

Referring back to the concept art, we see a white castle that people are quick to believe is a place similar to Valhalla. Valhalla is basically like paradise in Norse mythology, a place viking warriors go for the afterlife. The majestic described hall is located in a celestial realm in Asgard where the Norse gods live. Perhaps that castle isn't a castle but a hall and that place really is Valhalla which would explain why it sits on clouds. Agnarr was a viking warrior according to Norse mythology so it's possible he's there. Perhaps he and Iduna could return in that sense. And seeing the northern lights surround what seems to be Valhalla, maybe the northern lights are what surrounds and guards these realms.

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FROZEN LOGO ...

Hello everyone.

After the official announcement of the real logo for the movie Frozen 3 It is now time to make a comparison between the first, second and third logos for the three movies to know the content of the events in the movie. Each movie summarizes its events in the form of the logo for the title.

  • In the Frozen 1 logo The word Frozen is snowy and smooth like a frozen lake that you can slide if you stand on it. It is an indication of the events of the story. Elsa's powers that first appear were in a beautiful appearance as Anna said: Winter is beautiful in the place where she met Olaf. The Logo of Frozen 1 was evidence of innocence, beauty and softness.
  • In the Frozen 2 logo The word Frozen was completely different from the first movie. The letters were convex and rough and the lower half of the word was dominated by gray to black as if black rocks had crept into the logo. The logo began to suggest the dark direction that the events of the movie were heading towards. When we watched the movie we learned about the presence of the four spirits of nature. The shape of the logo looked like the element of earth intertwined with ice. It seemed as if the ice was no longer pure as in the first movie.
  • In the Frozen 3 logo The word Frozen was completely different from the first and second movies. It had acquired the characteristics of the Frozen 2 logo But with a big difference The word Frozen 3 was convex like the second movie logo, but the ice looked rougher and its appearance was not at all comfortable for the eye, as if it were nails that wanted to hurt your eyes. The ice in the logo was very dense, denser than the normal rate. This indicates two possibilities: The first possibility: Elsa's power increased terribly and above the normal rate, meaning her ice power got out of control in a more dangerous way than the first movie, meaning that Elsa turned into an evil entity because of her powers.

Second possibility: Here we return to the temporary logo that was issued before the official announcement of the official logo: In the temporary logo, as in the picture above: We see 4 logos for the four spirits of nature. We see two snowflakes, one large and the other small, and their shape is completely different. The large snowflake is what distinguished Elsa in the first movie and was the logo for the first movie

The second small snowflake has a different shape, resembling a six-pointed star.

The four symbols of nature spirits with two different shaped snowflakes?

If it was random, it would be crowded and chaotic in the design.

But if it was intentional.

Here we understand that they mean something big by adding a second different snowflake.

So there is another person who has ice powers before Elsa, look at the arrangement as if it were a chronological order: Elsa's snowflake, then above it a different snowflake, then at the top the symbols of the four spirits. That means there are 6 beings. 4 nature spirits. 2 snowflakes. That means there is another snow spirit before Elsa that has been around since the appearance of the four spirits. This is something I talked about many months ago about the existence of a fifth ice spirit before Elsa that inhabited Atohlan. I will elaborate more in the upcoming analyses. The important thing is that the official and temporary logo explained many things that will come.

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D23: Frozen content breakdown | Breakdown/ Analysis

What a day it was yesterday! So much content we were flooded with and especially for us with the Frozen 3 and 4 update! I'm sure you all know the latest deets but I would like it to break it all down and guess what it could all mean. So be prepared to read a lot! ❄️

[long post alert]

Frozen III logo

A couple of hours before the Frozen panel had begun, we were given a first look of the logo for Frozen 3:

It features the four elements symbols and two snowflakes too for Elsa and Anna as the fifth spirit. The III had a purple - pink gradient to it and the background had a spring scenery south blossom/ sakura trees and mountains far behind. Some of us predicted before that Frozen 3 would be set in Spring given Frozen being in winter/ summer and Frozen 3 in Autumn.

However, some people didn't believe this logo was real. But after the panel, Josh Gad put it on his stories and as a post on Instagram, the announcements and reveals made at the panel.

This must mean that it's real. But a more accurate, rendered logo was also revealed at the Panel and that Gad had also shared in his post.

So my conclusion is that the first one is a working title, a concept of what it would be like when it's promoted. The second one is a mix of the first Frozen logo and the second movie's logo combined being more 3D but still with a frozen effect. This logo is the official used rendered one whilst the first one is just a concept based on the implied spring theme of the movie. Both are real.

Frozen questions left unanswered

When the Panel began we were given a flood of questions on the board that were the questions the fans had after Frozen 2, aka the questions that were left unanswered. Here they are:

Who gave Elsa her powers?

Why doesn't Anna have powers?

Was there a fifth spirit before?

Will Kristoff be a King?

Do they [Anna & Kristoff] want kids?

Where are Kristoff's parents?

How did Kristoff meet Sven?

How can Sven be so old and still so virile?

Why is Olaf alive?

What about Marshmallow and the snowgies?

Is it “Hoo Hoo” or “You Hoo”?

What are Elsa's powers still growing?

Why are their castle ruins throughout Ahotohallan?

Where do the nature spirits come from?

Do we still need to beware of the Frozen Heart?

Who is the Frozen Heart?

What happened to Hans?

These questions will most likely be answered in Frozen 3 and 4, as they are confirmed to be a two part film. These are actually really good and interesting questions we have that we do need to have answered. I actually want to try and analyse (and answer them for fun!) them because some people might feel some have already answered so why the need to answer them again?

Who gave Elsa her powers?

We already know that Ahotohallan is where her powers come from. That's the source along with the other four spirits. But they probably felt like they didn't make it clear enough. Some people before Frozen 2 had theorized that there was a Snow Queen who gave Iduna something that caused Elsa to have powers. Maybe there's more to Ahotohallan than we know.

Why doesn't Anna have powers?

This isn't addressed in the movie other than the fact that Elsa and Anna are both the fifth spirit and the bridge which has two sides. But why doesn't Anna, I believe that's because the fifth spirit's role is to create balance between the powerful and the powerless (in a literal magical form). The fifth spirit was never just one being I don't think. It was always two to have one with powers and one without and have the two form a deep unbreakable bond so that humans and magical entities would look at them and see that though different, they can get along and have peace amongst each other, and live in harmony. If both were magical it would defeat the objective of creating peace between the two different types of beings

Was there a fifth spirit before?

I think yes because in the Myth VR on Disney plus, it was revealed that there was a fifth spirit before Elsa and Anna but after it created harmony with the other spirits and humans, it disappeared creating disharmony in the forest and caused the spirits to rage. Then the other four spirits managed to calm down until they were raged again by King Runeard's war between Arendelle and Northuldra. Even if this isn't canon I still believe there was one. I think it's important to know because it could be important with the journey Elsa and Anna next go on.

Will Kristoff be a King?

If Anna does abdicate from the throne then yes. To be exact he would be a king Consort. At the end of Frozen 2 we saw Anna greet the public as Queen and unveil the statue of her parents and kids. That wasn't the coronation which is confirmed and this confirms it too as it asks will he be king? and not is he king? I loved Elsa as Queen but she probably felt that she couldn't take care of Arendelle as she had to restore and look after Northuldra/ the enchanted forest and felt Anna deserved it after she had scared her and Arendelle twice without a doubt.

Do they [Anna & Kristoff] want kids?

That's a question that none of us thought of? Do they want kids? I think they do but will find it hard to do if there's threats and danger around. Anna definitely would be a lovely mother and Kristoff and lovable dad. But I don't think we'll see them have kids so soon, at least not in the beginning of the movie, like we won't immediately be introduced to them I don't think.

Where are Kristoff's parents?

A question we've been asking since the first movie. All we know is that he grew up as an ice harvester. He seems to have grown up independently with Sven. I can't even guess the answer because I'll probably be wrong anyway.

How did Kristoff meet Sven?

Another question regarding Kristoff's backstory we've been longing to see. It's nice to see they're including Kristoff's backstory now. The first two movies were about the sisters backstory and development arcs (and 3 and 4 continue that) but now we can finally learn about Kristoff!

How can Sven be so old and still so virile?

No clue! I never noticed that actually. I never thought of why. I don't know much about reindeer so I didn't know that Sven was so old yet so virile. Perhaps when he was young he was injured and the trolls may have healed him giving him a longer youthful life. I'm certain the trolls have a role in this if it's magic related.

Why is Olaf alive?

Why not how!! Another really interesting question that I can answer. We all know how he is alive because we saw Elsa bring him back to life but why was he brought back? He's still an important part of the sister bond and individually he has much more in him than we have seen. Plus he's Olaf and we love Olaf!

What about Marshmallow and the snowgies?

I believe they all too, along with the ice castle and all other permanent creations of Elsa, got restored either automatically after Elsa's return or by hand when Elsa got the chance. They too are as iconic as Olaf is. I hope they return in Frozen 3. They're so lovable and cute - it would be a fun addition to the movie.

Is it “Hoo Hoo” or “You Hoo”?

I always thought it was... “Yoo Hoo” because that's what people say. Hoo Hoo is an owl's line lol and one says that.

What are Elsa's powers still growing?

Just as we grow individually sometimes in height, in character, in what we feel, powers are no different. They grow as we grow inside. And Jen Lee has previously said that her powers will reach a new height in Frozen 3.

Why are their castle ruins throughout Ahotohallan?

I think they are referring to Ahotohallan as a castle and inside and out it looks ruined. During Show Yourself Elsa has to lift things up and add things to get across to the place where the memories are held. I theorize that the previous fifth spirit may have done something to Ahotohallan or to its power and caused chaos that caused Ahotohallan to have ruins in it. Ahotohallan probably was the previous fifth spirit's castle and when it went rouge Ahotohallan may have been left abandoned and ruined.

Where do the nature spirits come from?

Ahotohallan is where their powers are from. But perhaps it's more complicated than that and it needs to be addressed for lore reasons. There's more to Ahotohallan than we know.

Do we still need to beware of the Frozen Heart?

Oooooh!! My favourite question along with the next two. Do we? We must be if it's even a question at this point?

Who is the Frozen Heart?

Who? Frozen Heart is a person?! It was literally Anna in Frozen but metaphorically it was Elsa. Maybe someone else will be the Frozen Heart. Hans? Kristoff? A new character/ being?

What happened to Hans?

A question we've needed answering since Frozen and one that Hans fans have been trying to answer. His backstory based on official and unofficial media is that he has 12 brothers but they all or at least most of them treat him poorly along with his dad because he's the last child and last in line to the throne. That means, they think Hans as unworthy and unless of anything. So why did the Queen and King have another child? Probably as an accident child or just because. I'm sure the Queen is loving. He was sent back at the end of Frozen to his home, the Southern Isles so they can deal with him themselves and they did. As punishment they made him do chores like sweep up horse poop as seen towards the end of Frozen Fever before Elsa's giant snowball accidentally yet subconsciously hit him causing his major injuries. The southern Isles didn't immediately know where the snowball came from. But what happened to him after that? In a poster in the new Frozen Park in Hong Kong, it is revealed that Elsa and Anna invited the Southern Isles among other kingdoms to celebrate a year since Anna sacrificed herself to the Elsa and the Kingdom.

Hans couldn't come because he was injured. But his return is almost certain in Frozen 3 with his rise in unofficial/ canon media. Will he return as a villain or a redeemed hero is to be determined. I don't think he should return as a villain. If he did he would have taken his revenge out during Frozen 2, as he would have been recovered by then. Seeing the concept art of Frozen 3, which I'm about to go onto, it looks like we'll see mythical beings and a world bigger than Ahotohallan. Hans wouldn't fit as a villain in the expanded world of magic because he doesn't seem to be interested in magic in that greed sense. I think he'll be redeemed and help them in their new quest. Perhaps he does have tied with magic in his ancestry as we know nothing about his family.

All these questions are ones that the team feel like they need to answer in the next two movies and I think that's good. Along with showing something new, we get answers from questions we've long waited for too. And I think it's a good strategy for them to tell us the questions we've been asking so that they can answer it in the movies. They're letting us know that they can hear us and want to fulfil our wishes while telling a new story. It's good communication in my opinion.

Frozen 3 concept art and new release date

Jennifer Lee also revealed the concept art of Frozen 3. I'm sure there must've been dozens of art but this one may have been the direction they're headed in.

We have a beautiful calm colour palette that reminds me of dawn/ dusk of spring. Trees are on either side, golden light beams from behind a mystical palace in the left centre. Flowers and leaves present hinting at a Spring setting. Anna's on a horse with Olaf and Elsa on the Nokk on the river both heading to the palace-like place. The scene is set at night as the aurora borealis/ northern lights can be seen arising from the castle. Perhaps this castle has some connection to the northern lights. In the Lego Northern lights series, the trolls crystals are the ones to cause the northern lights or have a connection to them. I don't think the Lego series is canon but I do wonder if the trolls will have a role in this too.

Elsa and Anna are in their Frozen 2 attires, Anna in her travel one and Elsa in her fifth spirit one but with boots (for practical reasons). That doesn't mean that's their final look. Frozen 2's early concept art had Elsa and Anna in their Frozen looks. Olaf looks worried as he points to something off scene.

Just below the direction in which he points, in the river, lies a shadowy creature. It could be that that's the shadow of the creature Olaf points to. The creature appears to have horns and hold a staff/ spear with a sharp end.

Just below the palace-like place is a land. I was going to say Ahtohallan but the silhouettes are different.

So it seems like this place is unknown. If they went North in Frozen 2, perhaps Thai time they're going south, which is why Hans could appear. But that's just a guess.

During the panel it is also revealed that the release date is November 2027 having it moved back by a year from its original 2026 release date. 2027 seems quite far away just when we felt we were getting closer to Frozen 3 but we'll just have to be patient and hope we get some other Frozen content released meanwhile.

Frozen: Winter Festival short form series?

That's everything that was revealed regarding Frozen 3, but no word on the series that was revealed by dolls and their descriptions. I believe since the movie got delayed by a year, probably to spend more time developing the two part movies (which is a good thing so we avoid the mistakes caused by rush in production for Frozen 2), the short form series will be delayed by a year. That would mean the announcement could be closer to time in next year's D23. That or they wanted to announce the series later. The dolls are to be released in September and the series is said to be released this fall. That is of course unless they have delayed it by a year but we'll have to wait and see if anything gets said before September otherwise consider it delayed by a year (😭).

And that's all the information given to us for now. Frozen 3 looks so good and promising - the vibe of spring with a deeper fantasy element is making me extremely excited! New places, new seasons, new characters, expanded lore, possible character returns, new looks and more!! Can't wait!! And yeah though my patience is sad that Frozen 3 had been delayed by a year, I'm glad because it means they can spend more time on the movie, to develop it properly and not repeat the same mistake they made with Frozen 2 with no good planning and a rushed development to the run up of the movie.

And the Frozen: Winter Festival I'm also excited for. I think Frozen needs a canon series in its franchise.

The future looks big and bright for the franchise! ❄️

Any new info or details I have not mentioned please let me know! Any questions for me please feel free to drop them in the "Ask" box

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puryartist

I wonder why they mentioned the Frozen Heart again cause I thought this concept has already ended since the first movie. And the way those two questions "Do we still need to beware the Frozen Heart?" and "Who is the Frozen Heart?" leading to "What happened to Hans?" is interesting. According to the first movie and A Frozen Heart, we all know Hans is the Real a frozen heart all along. Does it mean he will come back as a villian again? or maybe something leading to his redemption arc? Idk but I can sense this time he will come back as something more than a cameo.

#and it could mean nothing too

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I will be updating the Frozen 3 news post soon, but wanted to throw in some thoughts regarding the new info.

So, firstly, I’m happy that the film is being delayed to 2027. That may sound shocking, but this is a big relief to me. The first two films both suffered from trying to meet a deadline, and the creators (this is probably more on the company though) refusing to delay and give themselves more time. Thus, both films have rushed elements.

It gives me hope that not only is the story being written into two films, but now they are giving themselves even more time to polish it. Especially concerning the sheer amount of story content that they want to explore— and it’s a lot.

I’ve condensed all of the questions brought on during the announcement into 5 major sections, all concerning a specific idea.

*Quick Edit* I moved the question about the Frozen Heart down from More Ahtohallan Lore to the Prince Hans section because that was always more associated with Hans, so I thought it would be more appropriate to have under that section instead.

First Major Plot Point — More Ahtohallan Lore

  • Why Ahtohallan has castle ruins inside of it.
  • The previous Fifth Spirit.
  • Where did the Spirits come from?

Second Major Plot Point — Elsa’s Powers

  • Why are her powers still growing?
  • Who gave her the powers?
  • How are her creations, like Olaf, alive?
  • Why doesn’t Anna have powers?

Third Major Plot Point — Arendelle Royalty

  • How is Anna doing as Queen?
  • Is Kristoff going to become King?
  • Are Anna and Kristoff interested in having kids?

Fourth Major Plot Point — Kristoff’s Past

  • Where are Kristoff’s parents?
  • How did Kristoff meet Sven?
  • Why is Sven still full of energy if he’s so old?

Fifth Major Plot Point — Prince Hans

  • What happened to Hans?
  • Who exactly is the Frozen Heart?

With all this in mind, on the concept art, not only do we see people in the castle above the sisters, we also see an ominous, viking-like shadow behind Anna and Elsa — meaning that if these are new characters, then that means that we have a giant cast at the moment.

  • Elsa
  • Anna
  • Kristoff
  • Sven
  • Olaf
  • Mattias
  • Yelena
  • Honeymaren
  • Ryder
  • Hans
  • Viking Shadow Guy
  • Castle People

Like….they’re doing the “Too much stuff, not enough space” thing again and I’m genuinely concerned haha. Thus, the delay and split into two films is a smart move. But why not just make a show? Like this screams series. Idk haha.

Also, there are a few things here that I actually thought were answered already — like, who gave Elsa her powers? Ahtohallan because of Iduna’s sacrifice. Why doesn’t Anna have powers? She’s the human side of the Fifth Spirit. But I suppose that F2 wasn’t exactly clear on these things, so maybe they want to better explore these ideas and clear up some misconceptions. Makes sense I suppose.

Also, the fact that they’re asking if Kristoff will be King or not is giving me some validation lol. I always said that Kristoff would be called a King and not Prince Consort and so far it looks like they’re considering the King title and not anything else. But we’ll see haha.

Now I’m curious what you guys think. Poll time.

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Anonymous asked:

What do you think would've happened if the creators decided to do seasonal spirits with frozen 2 instead of elemental spirits? Like Elsa would of course be the winter spirit and they meet these other three individuals who are Spring, Summer and Autumn?

One thing to keep in mind is that the creators have stated that Elsa is the only one of her kind. So I highly doubt they would've had a group of magical people represent the seasons. Also...I can't really think of what powers the other seasonal people would have. Fire for Summer? Wind for Autumn? Plants for Spring? IDK.

If they did go this route, then they would probably pick out Scandinavian mythological creatures to represent them, just like the elemental spirits. Like making Bruni the spirit of Summer, and Gale the spirit of Autumn, and maybe the Giants or some other creatures for Summer.

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Anonymous asked:

Why do some people claim that Elsa is a bad character?

Because she's popular.

On a serious note, while her popularity does play a huge part as to why she is typically criticized (it's become a sport at this point, along with criticizing Frozen itself), it probably also has to do with people just not understanding her character.

The biggest criticism I see is that Elsa is, quote, "selfish".

Elsa reacts to things in a way that may seem selfish when you look at her at face-value. Pushing people away or constantly self-hating tends to cause people to think that you're always just stuck in your own head and don't' really consider the feelings of others.

However, most people understand that Elsa grew up feeling like that she's a burden on everyone, and she's the sole cause of the misfortune and pain that surrounds her loved ones. Because of this, Elsa kind of takes up this martyr role, feeling like she needs to sacrifice her needs for others to make up for this.

What seems self-serving is when she doesn't really listen to her loved ones when they say 'you need to stop doing this to yourself' and just falls into old habits of pushing people away. However, it's because Elsa has been through quite a lot, and just wants her and her loved ones to be happy - even if it means making decisions on their behalf or self-isolating.

Obviously, she grows out of this at the end of F2, but until people see her growth in full-force in the third film, they will continue to push this narrative. But she's not intentionally doing this because it makes her feel better - she's doing it because it's how she's learned to take care of her loved ones, keeping secrets and isolating.

Elsa is a complex, imperfect character - and that tends to cause people to have extreme opinions when a character is this nuanced.

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Anonymous asked:

What is the general consensus when it comes to Frozen 2? I want to believe it’s well liked but often I’ve seen thins like ‘This fanfic is a better sequel than Frozen 2’, ‘OUAT was the better sequel story’, ‘Anna & Elsa are OOC/flanderized/Not the same people in Frozen 2’, ‘Frozen 2 is a bad sequel’ etc… What do you think?

Frozen 2 has a 77% Critic Score and 92% Audience score on Rotten Tomatoes. It has a 6.8 on IMDB, 64% on Metacritic, and on Google 94% of users enjoyed the film. Frozen 2 has won 19 awards and has 92 nominations. It's also one of the highest grossing animated films of all time.

So, while the film is obviously not groundbreaking like the first film, and definitely no masterpiece, it was received with a luke-warm reception from critics, and audiences actually loved the film.

Also, keep in mind that Frozen 2 is the sequel to a film that was criticized to an extreme degree due to it's popularity. Meaning that, for the most part, people were ready to hate this film because they hated the first film. Frozen's own scores actually lowered over the years due to this 'I hate it because it's popular' phenomenon. Don't believe me? Look at the IMDB score.

This was exactly one month after release. Frozen had a whopping 8.1 score from when it was first released and actually remained that way until January. Then, as the months and years went by, you see how the score dropped gradually after it's jump in popularity, until it reached it's current score - 7.4. You can see the drop yourself using The Way Back Machine.

Thus, F2's luke-warm reception could have also been affected by Frozen's own popularity. As said, many were ready to hate this film.

Now, when it comes to hardcore fans....that's a different story.

The thing about the Frozen fandom is that we are much more passionate about certain topics, relationships, and characters - leading us to be more critical because of those passions. Not to mention that this sequel was anticipated for six years, while many fans had already created high/unrealistic expectations, head canons, cult-like favoritism for certain characters, and went through quite a few shipping wars.

Thus, take the criticisms brought on by critics and multiply them by 50% because fans were disappointed with a narrative choice that didn't follow their personal head canon or show favoritism to their personal ideals.

Now, with all this being said, I'm not trying to say that F2's criticisms are not valid or warranted. There are many valid and good critiques from critics, audiences, and fans alike. What I am saying is that a lot of what you're seeing comes from a lot of things, not just F2's own quality as a film and sequel - making this topic very nuanced and not so cut-and-dry. Bias plays a big role here as well.

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Anonymous asked:

What do you think of those videos on YouTube that bad mouths Frozen/Frozen 2 (ex: Frozen is a Pathetic Mess. Frozen 2 is a Pathetic Sequel. Frozen 2 is a Mess etc?) and how do I a fan of both Frozen & the Sequel deal with it?

Everyone is allowed to have their opinions of art, and if someone doesn't like Frozen, F2 or both, that is fine. They can absolutely say and create whatever they want.

I do think however that if someone has a video with the word 'pathetic' or 'mess' in the title, they're obviously doing it for click bait; not because they actually want to have a genuine discussion about the films. It automatically makes me not want to see the video. That's just me though.

The best way to deal with criticism for something you like that means a lot to you, is to not take it personally.

I completely understand and know the pain of seeing a video or reading a take that makes you frustrated, and it sits with you for the rest of the day and ruins it. In this case, you basically just need to accept that people have different tastes, and just because they might've said something that is wrong or just frustrating, doesn't really take away what the franchise has done for you.

The films are still there for you to enjoy whenever you want, and there are plenty of fans to discuss the films in a way that makes you happy - and maybe even openly and comfortably discuss any flaws you might've had issues with the franchise without feeling like the thing you love is being attacked.

This leads into to the second thing you need to do - knowing your limits.

If you do not feel like you can emotionally handle something you love being criticized, and do not want to engage with that type of discussion, then take steps to avoid this as much as possible. Block users and tags, tell YouTube to stop recommending certain types of videos or creators. Make your space a place where you can enjoy what you love in a way that makes you happy, not frustrated.

Yes, as mentioned, people can discuss art in any way they like. However, you also have the freedom to disregard them.

Now, if you do get the itch and want to respond to the criticism, and feel like you can handle it in a way that is respectful, then I recommend not doing it right away.

Take a deep breath, walk away from the post/video, and gather your thoughts and emotions first. That way you don't say or do something you later regret, or engage yourself in a discussion you really didn't want to have in the first place, but now you're in a full on debate and you don't know how to get out of it.

I've made the mistake of creating rant posts while I was angry and saying/doing things that were not handled the best way. I'm human after all. Thus, always take a step back before you respond to criticism. In the end, when your anger has died down, you may not even be bothered by the critique anymore and don't' feel the need to say anything.

So that's my recommendation on how to deal with type of thing. I hope it helps a bit!

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Heyy, bestie!! Still being awesome, I see. One of the things I've always thought was not properly addressed or expanded upon was the actual affects and trauma of being completely socially isolated since she was a small child for Anna, and also how painful and confusing it must be for her in the aftermath of the Great Thaw. That being, in the movie, she automatically reconnects with Elsa and it almost seemed like all the friction that has been built up over the past thirteen years has been forgotten. Like, the person she's been trying to reconnect with for years, who is neglectful, harsh, and constantly turns her away is finally beginning to show a real interest in her. All of this to say, could you write a lil one shot that delves into Anna's psyche after the Great Thaw that explains it? Obviously please feel free to discuss these ideas as well, I'd love to hear what you think. Personally, I hc a darker interpretation that would probably be counter to Elsa's character in canon but which I think makes sense--Elsa is angry that Anna relentlessly keeps coming back to her, and lashes out cruelly to make Anna hate her--to break her little sister so that she never comes back and stays away for good. I wrote out that scene as Anna bringing Elsa flowers during a council meeting a few years before her coronation and Elsa throwing them in the fire and responding harshly, humiliating Anna in front of all the gathered staff (her only friends) which leads Anna to finally stop trying and makes the coronation ballroom meeting scene that much more contextually awkward. But yeah, that's all from me. Love to discuss this more since it's a take I don't really see in the fandom, but I really think Anna's issues from the isolation would have been severely more pronounced then how they are depicted in the movie. Cheers, bestie, love your stuff!!!

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Hey! Thank you for your kinds words!

All of this to say, could you write a lil one shot that delves into Anna's psyche after the Great Thaw that explains it?

A one shot of Anna's psyche after the Great Thaw? Now that warrants an entire analysis! Stay tuned for that, now you've inspired me haha.

Now, for your question below -

That being, in the movie, she automatically reconnects with Elsa and it almost seemed like all the friction that has been built up over the past thirteen years has been forgotten. Like, the person she's been trying to reconnect with for years, who is neglectful, harsh, and constantly turns her away is finally beginning to show a real interest in her.

Regardless of how Elsa treated her while they were growing up, Anna never gave up hope to reconnect with her – even seeking her out when their parents died. Even when Elsa created the Eternal Winter, hit her with her powers, and threw her out of the Ice Palace, she still had the will to trust Elsa – sacrificing herself for her. After the Great Thaw, Anna says herself that she always knew that Elsa could do it. While she did have doubts, she always held onto the hope that she would reconnect with Elsa.

Going further, not only was Anna already open to the idea since the beginning of the film, but she had also found out the reason why Elsa treated her so coldly in the first place; it was because of the Ice magic. Anna says “For the first time in forever I finally understand!” She was also made aware of Elsa’s true feelings. At the coronation, Anna says “I wish it could be like this all the time!” with Elsa responding “Me too.” Then, Elsa shows her that she does care about her happiness at the Ice Palace – “Anna, please go back home, your life awaits. Go enjoy the sun, and open up the gates.” Elsa knows what Anna wants, and wants her to go and finally have it.

Anna finally understood that the reason Elsa was distant was because of her fear over her powers, and not because of her own choices. This was further cemented when Anna was told by the Trolls, “People make bad choices when they’re mad, or scared, or stressed.” Anna understood that Elsa was scared. It was never a personal vendetta against Anna, nor did Anna do anything to warrant the treatment. And Anna found out how Elsa actually felt about her.

Knowing all this, Anna quickly reconnecting with Elsa makes sense because both sisters were already open to the idea. What was stopping them was misunderstanding and fear. Once that was out of the way, everything else fell into place.

But I will definitely go into a more detailed analysis of Anna's psyche, it's depiction in the films in a future analysis.

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Anonymous asked:

Another thing about the Elsa and Anna having a little brother ask (I believe you named him Sondre) What kind of personality do you see him having? What do you think he would look like? What would his relationships with each of the other characters be like? And what role do you see him playing in both of the Frozen movies?

Not sure to be honest. If he hanged out more with Anna (since in theory, Elsa wouldn't go near him while they grew up), he would probably be goofy like her. However, maybe he would look up to Agnarr and be more stoic and serious like him - maybe a mix of both?

I think he would probably play into the sibling narrative of Frozen somehow. Maybe he would give Anna more reason to try and unite the family again, or for her to use as leverage as to why Elsa needs to be more careful. I'm imagining a relationship similar to Nani and Lilo, since he would be younger, Elsa and Anna would probably take a more parental role.

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