Ask Raziel

Yes!

I've made this comparison myself several times.

This is why I think hating Marinette for her decision is so stupid. A 19 year old man made the same decision. Where's the hate campaign against him?

Am I saying Marinette was right to lie to Adrien? No.

Am I saying I understand why she did it? Yes.

I think we should hate the person who put the poor kid in this situation. So say it with me...

Fuck you Gabriel Agreste!!!

Yeah, the spoilt, narcissistic, racist bully who sees Adrien as nothing but her rich boyfriend would support his transition. And the lunatic control freak who thought any version of his sone other than the "perfect specimen" would support such a massive change in Adrien. 🙄🙄

And the compassionate and empathetic girl who stood up to her previously favourite musician on behalf of her friend wouldn't accept a person living their best life. That makes perfect sense.

I am being sarcastic for anyone who can't tell..🙄🙄

ML fandom logic.

Marinette: I have to lie to the man I love to stop his entire world falling apart and I feel incredibly guilty about it. I just hope I made the right choice.

Fandom: Worst person ever! She brought all the suffering on herself and she's an abusive bitch!

Chloe: I bullied everyone around me and nearly killed a girl. Oh, also I got a pregnant woman fired. Lol I'm such a bitch and proud of it! I know what I do is wrong and I love it!

Fandom: Oh poor baby! Her mum is mean, that's why she's like this. Why won't her victims help her?!

Kagami: I trusted the wrong person and don't understand people due to my mother's psychopath nature.

Fandom: Lol, she's so pathetic and mean! Kill her, she's not even a person anyway.

Felix: I abused my cousin and sold several creatures into slavery and committed genocide while laughing and singing.

Fandom: Best boy! *simping noises*

Me.

People shit on Marinette then praise another character for the same thing all the time.

No.

I think the Marinette salt comes from people who have an overly sanitised view of what teenagers are like and expect them to be mature adults.

Teenagers are oblivious. Teenagers are cringe. Teenagers are horny idiots that don't think things through.

Most people did stupid stuff for a crush at that age. The show just exaggerates this for the sake of comedy.

Hell, Marinette is actually rather tame compared to what 14 year old girls do in real life.

Agreed.

I'm just sick of Chloe stans victim blaming Marinette, Adrien, and especially Zoe for being mad at her for being a bully, a bad friend, and an abusive sister respectively.

The victim blaming and constant excuses for malicious behaviour is the worst part about this fandom.

Wether you were offended or not is irrelevant because its a stupid comparison.

There's a huge difference between trying to do something nice, but being a dramatic dork, and trying to humiliate and hurt someone for no reason other than spite. If you can't see the difference then I can't help you.

Inevitably you say? That's a bold claim considering the season isn't over. Didn't you tell me not to judge until somethings over? No don't send me leaked scripts they're always out of context or fake.

So repeatedly sexually assaulting someone is OK if a teenage girl acts cringe and over the top? Great logic dude.

Nothing Marinette does counts as stalking. You want to see stalking? Look at Lila.

Obsessively getting pictures so she can cut Marinette’s face out?

Trying to manipulate and ruin all her friendships?

Joining a super villian out of spite?

That's what a stalker looks like.

And ultimately the opinion of the victim is the most important, Adrien doesn't get offended by Marinette’s actions, why are you?

I think it's very interesting that despite being characterised by salters as someone who would put her crush on a pedestal and let it distract her from important stuff. Marinette is the only person on the show who doesn’t do that

Alya broke her promise and revealed her secret identity to Nino.

Nino nearly killed Chat Noir because he didn't trust his girlfriend.

Chloe is well... Chloe.

Luka got Akumatized because the woman he had been with for less than a month had her own secrets.

Kagami over idealised Adrien and when he didn't live up to those standards she got controlling and almost cruel.

Adrien has let his feelings override his judgment albeit briefly.

Gabriel has gone completely insane and attacks Paris on a daily basis due to Emilies death.

Marinette on the other hand despite being hopelessly in love with Adrien and being a romantic to the core, has sworn off romance completely until Monarch is defeated. It hurts like hell but her duty comes first.

She deserves respect.

Yeah girls, especially teenagers get way too much hate I think.

And honestly if we're talking about "Stalking" or "Harming Adrien." Look at Lila, or Chloe.

I'm sorry but look at that face. Tell me Adrien isn't creeped out and internally screaming "Woman don't touch me!!"

Compare that to this.

Don't tell me this is about concern for Adrien. Marinette is the best thing that's ever happened to him he says it himself.

Watch this and tell me these two aren't soulmates, I dare you.

Can we just let the crazy 14 year old dork be a crazy 14 year old dork? You were cringy and weird at that age, don't judge her for being like that.

Probably.

The thing is though that would never happen. Chat Loves Ladybug with all his heart and the idea that he hurt her in anyway would destroy him.

I've never seen so much hate directed at a protagonist before. Like come on guys leave Marinette alone!

The fact that people want her to suffer more is rather disgusting, Like I'm being 100% Genuine. Salters need therapy

I think it says a lot about the ml fandom that Marinette gets more hate for letting Chat down gently than Chloe gets for making a spectacle of rejecting Kim the way she did.

Chloe had full right to say no to Kim sure, but if you really cared about boys feelings how about some sympathy for this?

Just admit you hate Marinette and move on.

Ml fandom logic.

Marinette: Loves Adrien for his personalty and trys her best to be there for him, despite her anxiety and low self esteem. Makes Adrien gifts for the future because she's a quirky dork, and Adrien flat out says she's special and the only one who truly understands him.

Fandom: Stalker! Tramp! She only cares about his looks! She's so creepy and selfish!

Felix: Gaslights Adrien’s friends and nearly ruins his reputation for no reason. Mocks him for being a victim of abuse, and knows Gabriel is Hawkmoth as well as Emilie being a frozen corpse in the cellar. But never tells Adrien this despite the massive danger it puts him in.

Fandom: Best character ever! He cares so much for his cousin. He should be the protagonist instead.

Me:

Chloe Stans: Why does Astruc hate an abused Teenager so much!?

Me: Why do you? 

Chloe Stans: What?

Me: You constantly salt on Marinette, Adrien, and Zoe. they all count as abused teenagers as well. And un like them Chloe abuses other people, constantly making her classmates lives difficult, as well as trying to get her own sister deported. 

"(part 2 of 2) In previous decades like the 80s/90s/etc., fandoms believed “victims weren’t being treated fairly”, so us and them both stood up for the people who were having violence inflicted on them. But starting in the 2000s, fandoms decided that tormentors were being given “worse outcomes than they deserved”, so standing up for “victims” and “the unfairly treated” split off, and we now have opposite ideas of justice. In ML, this distinction is the difference between Marinette and Chloe fans."

This is all very intresting.

But how on earth can anyone claim Chloe is being given “worse outcomes than they deserved”,

For all the talk that Marinette never faces consequences for her actions. (She does, but that's another discussion.)

What Chloe has done should have gotten her locked up in a juvenile detention centre.

@iwasbored777 wasn't saying the show is Sexist.

She was saying the way the fandom constantly downplays Marinette’s trauma and the stress she's under is Sexist because they wouldn't be this harsh or have such high expectations for a male character.

People love to talk about how Marinette doesn't suffer enough for her mistakes or that her actions have no consequences. Like.. how can you say that!?

Master fu losing his memory? Not her fault.

Chloe betraying the team? Not her fault.

Ladynoir conflict? Miscommunication.

Felix stealing the Miraculous? NOT HER FAULT!!!

I don't know what Salters want at this point, and it's not worth trying.

And as for the race issues. I only brought it up because I find it annoying that Chloe’s stans act like she can do no wrong, and act like Marinette not forgiving her for at least 4 years of abuse makes her a bad person.

As a white man I'm not allowed to discuss race in any meaningful way. Sorry about that.

Probably the weirdest thing salters claim is That Adrien would hate Marinette if he found out her "stalker habits."

He knows guys.

He doesn't mind the pictures, or anything else she does.

Adrien has shown when he's uncomfortable with his fans, or when Chloe tries to drape herself over him constantly, or when Kagami wanted to kiss him and he didn't.

Don't get offended on behalf of others, especially when they don't mind their friends actions.

Me and my female friends sometimes joke around by fake flirting, or saying " wouldn't it be funny if we got together?" You wouldn't say to them. " You don't know him sweetheart, he actually only sees you as a fu*k toy. I'm protecting you." That would be silly.

So don't hate on Marinette for having pictures of her crush and friend on her wall. It's not like you didn't do that at 14. Well I didn’t but thats because I had no friends.

Ha ha I'm lonely!