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#spn 12x09 – @flyingfish1 on Tumblr
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something bordering on weird

@flyingfish1 / flyingfish1.tumblr.com

Fangirl. Fan of fandom. Recovering lurker. Introvert. She/her. Multifandom blog. SPN, Black Sails, OFMD, Good Omens, etc. Also contains sporadic meta, stuff about writing, recipes, and cats.
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the true antagonist of the Dabb era

Agent Camp: I don’t believe in torture. Doesn’t work…. You know what does work, though? Every time? Nothing. See, when I leave, that door closes. And it stays closed. And you stay in the dark. Now, maybe that doesn’t sound so bad. But after a month? A year? You spend enough time staring at these walls, just you with all that nothing, you’ll get so crazy to talk – to see someone real – you’ll tell me exactly what I need. -12x09 (Andrew Dabb)

Dean: We were already dead. Being locked in that cell – with nothing – I’ve been to Hell. This was worse. -12x09 (Andrew Dabb)

Cas [about being in the Empty]: It’s like – nothing. -13x06

The Empty [to Jack]: You ready to go? Cas: You stay away from him. The Empty: Castiel, you know how this goes – the good souls here, the bad souls there. The angels are mine…. I'm taking him. [To Jack] And where I'm taking you is worse than Hell, because at least Hell is something. -14x08

Ruby: Why do they call this place the Empty? This place is full. It's full of sorrow and despair playing over and over again, of angels and demons dreaming about their regrets. Forever.   -15x13

Chuck: Picture it. The two of you, your little lapdog Jack, rotting on a lifeless planet. Knowing it’s this way because you wouldn’t take a knee. Eternal shame, suffering, and loneliness. -15x19

Nothingness. Isolation. An eternity of loneliness, lifelessness, regret, despair. Nothing and no one around you that’s real. “Just you with all that nothing.”

The Empty.

It’s the thing that’s been lurking in the background of the story for the entire Dabb era. Sometimes appearing as itself, and sometimes appearing metaphorically as a human-made prison or a God-made desolate world. (But even as itself, it’s a metaphor, isn’t it?)

It’s the one antagonist they haven’t dealt with yet.

It’s the thing that has Cas.

And it’s the thing that represents the lack of everything they want and need most in their lives: Connection. Community. Love. Reality. Happiness. Hope.

And they are going to defeat it, and they are finally going to seize their happy endings.

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reblogged

*head desk*

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tinkdw

Oh joy! Whilst Mary is counselling Cas that they’ll get the boys back from where they’ve been whisked away to a seemingly impenetrable place that “officially doesn’t exist” …

*The circular narrative of season 12*

We knew we would look back on the season after 12x23 and see so much with hindsight but I think this is gonna keep us going all summer!

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12x09 tag (fix-it)

“What do you mean, there aren’t any more rogue reapers?”

Crowley shrugged, reaching for his drink. “Seems that Death has been cracking down on that.”

“Death?” Sam and Dean exchanged glances. “Death’s been gone for over a year.”

“Death has,” Crowley said smugly. “But now there’s Death.”

“Hey.”

Sam and Dean spun around. “Billie?”

Billie smirked at them. “S'up.”

“But you–Cas–” Dean started to mime a gesture, realized there was nowhere good it could go and stopped.

“Yeah, he did,” Billie said. “Took long enough.”

“How—?”

“So, here’s the thing,” Billie said. She looked the same—almost the same, except for the fathomless depth in her eyes. “Losing Death made things…difficult. But filling a position like that’s not easy; someone’s got to be right for the job. So there’s a requirement. Whoever of us immortal beings proves they are the master of death can take on the role.”

“A master of death…” Sam frowned. “You mean, whatever Reaper can die?”

“Seriously?” Dean said. “You guys made a bet that the first one to kick it gets the crown?”

“Pretty much.” Billie shrugged one shoulder. “And of course we couldn’t just kill ourselves—can’t make it too easy.”

“So instead you’ve been following us around for the last year and a half…”

“Making crazy deals with us…”

Billie’s smirk widened. “Given your track records, I figured it was a sure thing.”

“So now you’re…”

“Death,” Billie said. “But you can still call me Billie. Just don’t bother asking for my scythe or my ring.”

“Hold on,” Dean said. “If you were playing us—all those threats you made before, about things staying dead, and throwing us into the Empty…”

“Were to rile you up,” Billie said. Paused. Kept smiling. “And because I believe in them. That’s why I dropped by—wanted to let you know that there’s some new rules, now that there’s someone to make rules again. It doesn’t matter if it’s me who comes for you or anyone else. You’re getting a one-way ticket when you die.”

Sam swallowed. “A-awesome,” Dean said, and pretended he hadn’t stuttered it.

“And Sam, Dean?” Billie said, over her shoulder as she started for the door. “Thanks for the promotion.”

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fucktoydean

This is a friendly reminder

“Last night on earth, what are your plans?”

season5!Dean: Going to a brothel, seeking comfort in booze and hookers.

season12!Dean: Desperately trying to contact Cas, choosing to sit quietly by Cas’ side and share with him what he believed to be his last moments, seeking comfort in his sunshine.

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I’ve had some anons who have been concerned that this episode is heralding a return of the codependency dynamic, but I think that’s leaving out a huge part of what 12.09 was hammering home, and completely ignoring what that experience was for Dean.

We encountered this exact same difficulty with 11.17, Red Meat. For my money, that episode was a HUGE turning point for Dean, and I was shocked that so many people seemed to react to it negatively, believing that it was only reinforcing the codependency, because I saw it as the exact opposite, and I have talked about that fact AT LENGTH. I mean, see pretty much my entire 11.17 tag for reference purposes. If you don’t have time to wade through all 

http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/150593470245/if-you-think-that-there-was-any-growth-for-dean (which is pretty much summed up with the quote “Maybe try watching it again without the presumption that the show is trying to show you the absolute worst version of everything.”)

I mean, there’s more, but I’ve got other stuff to do today besides rehash 11.17… :D

But saying that Dean called Billie in with the sole intent of sacrificing himself to save Sammy? THAT’S ERASING PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING WE KNOW ABOUT DEAN’S CHARACTER GOING ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE PILOT EPISODE FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF FORCING YOURSELF TO FEEL ANGRY AT THE SHOW.

So, maybe own that, internalize it, and then look at the ENTIRE text in context without cherry-picking the details that support the negative argument you’re trying to make.

(sorry if I sound a bit angry/wanky there, but some of my anons are clearly coming from a place of deep anger about this issue, and it’s just not what I saw in that episode, or with Dean, AT ALL, so… yelling at me isn’t gonna change reality)

Let me explain.

From the pilot episode, Dean Winchester has been the Official Poster Boy for Abandonment Issues. He’d been fine hunting on his own for a while. He was hurt when Sam left the family to go to college, but Dean carried on hunting with John. At some point, knowing that John was hunting and Sam was safe at Stanford, Dean was content to hunt on his own, BECAUSE his family was still accounted for, even if they weren’t physically present in his life. The thing that drove him to finally beg for Sam’s help? The fear that John might’ve been injured and/or killed on a hunt. THAT was what Dean couldn’t face alone:

Dean: I can’t do this alone. Sam: Yes, you can. Dean: Yeah, well… I don’t want to.

Dean 100% thought he was going to go looking for John and find his body. He couldn’t face that alone, despite having been hunting on his own for a while by that point. It was the loss he couldn’t face alone.

Over the years, the ONE THING that has frightened Dean the most has been ABANDONMENT. BEING ALONE IS DEAN WINCHESTER’S #1 FEAR AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN. PERIOD. THE END.

I’d pull references for this fact, but it was essentially the driving force of the entire series, so, may I direct you to like every episode of Supernatural ever…

Dude stoically stared down Lucifer and shot him in the face. He walked alone into a pizza parlor and shared a slice with Death. He went into a diner having prepared himself to let the Mother of all Monsters BITE HIM in order to kill her. He, a human being, was the most terrifying thing in Purgatory, to the point the monsters whispered scary stories about HIM.

He’s not afraid of anything. Except being alone with himself.

To Dean, there has been no greater threat, no more terrifying fate, than what Amara proposed (and what Billie proposed) in s11. The Darkness, The Empty. They both essentially amounted to the same thing. Both were coded as metaphors for depression, suicide, annihilation of self.

Literally they were threatening him with the complete annihilation of his soul. These things were held up like a mirror to Dean in 11.17 and again via his extreme isolation in that prison cell in 12.09.

The prison cell was as close to the Empty as we could possibly put Dean without actually rending his soul into nothingness. This was absolutely lampshaded by Agent Camp’s little speech from the promo clip, when he was explaining exactly how he intended to torture Sam and Dean. (lucky me, I’m about 2/3 done with the transcript of the episode. This is unedited, but largely complete.)

I don’t believe in torture. Doesn’t work. Oh, I’ve seen folks waterboarded, cut on. And they talk. Ooh, they do. But they never tell you what you need. You know what does work, though? Every time? Nothing. [Sam looks up at Camp at that] CAMP: See, when I leave, that door closes, and it stays closed, [scene shifts back to Dean] and you stay in the dark. Now, maybe that doesn’t sound so bad. [Camp moves so he’s leaning down in front of Sam] CAMP:  But after a month? [scene shifts to Camp leaning identically in front of Dean] A year? You spend enough time staring at these walls, just you and all that nothing, [shift back to Sam] you’ll get so crazy to talk, to see someone real, you’ll tell me exactly what I need. You’ll tell me with a smile. [Shifts back to Dean] CAMP: It’ll just take some time. [Camp leans back against the wall opposite Dean again with his arms crossed, with multiple shifts back and forth to Sam and Dean] Of course, the thing is, after what you did, no one’s in a hurry to get you that phone call. So you and me, we got all the time in the world. [Sam’s cell door slams shut and we see him flinch, Dean’s cell door slams shut hiding him from view]

We saw Sam flinch twice– first at Camp’s use of the word “Nothing” to describe the method of torture he preferred, after describing waterboarding and cutting. THIS was what got Sam’s attention. Sam’s experience of being locked away, potentially for an eternity, was closer to what Camp described before, with the constant physical torture. Because THAT was Sam’s idea of torture. Yes, we’ve seen him endure it with a hearty SCREW YOU, but this isolation is something Sam is at least a little more psychologically prepared to accept than his brother is.

Because to Dean? Isolation is literally worse than his experiences in hell. Worse than 30 years of being tortured by the most accomplished torturer the universe has ever seen. And then 10 years of torturing others in turn… which to Dean ended up being even WORSE than actually BEING tortured.

Also, what was Dean’s first experience upon arriving in Hell? What was his Welcome to Hell reception area experience?

UTTER ISOLATION! BOUND BY CHAINS! COMPLETE LOSS OF FREE WILL!

Let’s not forget the shot where we reached this point by zooming into Dean’s eye until it blurred with the chains and nothingness inside his own mind… I’m sure that wasn’t a metaphor for Dean’s psyche or anything…

THIS. IS. DEAN’S. PERSONAL. HELL.

Throughout s11, Dean was confronted with these themes in the form of his guilt over the previous season and a half while dealing with the Mark of Cain. This emptiness, the absolute TERROR of the Loss of Self… I mean… going back to 10.09, this was literally his nightmare. Loss of self to the darkness of the Mark. It was his horrifying train of thought while talking to Len in 11.05 about what it was like to have lost his soul.

And Dean’s literal nightmares over the course of the entire series have revolved around loss, loss of self, and abandonment.

Can you begin to see why Dean broke first in the muggle version of The Empty? Locked away, alone, with nothing for company but his looooong history of guilt, depression, and abandonment issues? With nothing to break up the monotony but the thrice daily shout of CHOW TIME! and a screw to etch eternal hash marks into his concrete box?

THIS WAS EFFECTIVELY THE WORST THING THAT DEAN COULD EVER POSSIBLY IMAGINE HAPPENING TO HIM, SHORT OF UTTER OBLIVION.

I mean, in comparison, the Empty sounds pleasant. At least he wouldn’t have to EXPERIENCE all that nothingness, because he would’ve ceased to be.

THAT BOX WAS WORSE THAN HELL TO DEAN WINCHESTER.

I already replied to another anon shortly after the episode aired, and touched on this there:

One line I used in that reply was this: “Frankly, if Billie had said no, I think Dean would’ve probably just told her that he was done, and to just go ahead and take him. Period. End of deal. He would’ve given up.”

He would’ve preferred the literal Empty to staying in that concrete cell for one more CHOW TIME!.

Dean. Broke.

It had fuck-all to do with Sam. Well, it probably had a little bit to do with Sam, because heck, if Dean was going to throw in the towel, why not get something for Sam out of the deal in the process?

Go back and watch every Dean scene after they escape from the prison, with the knowledge of all the details of the deal Dean made with Billie. Because DEAN made that deal. Sam was just along for the ride. Dean was 100% in charge of that deal, and he fully intended to be the one to pay the price for it.

That entire run through the jungle was his last hurrah. It was Purgatory Dean on his Where’s the Angel quest all over again. Like, literally.

It was a culmination of every time Dean’s gone full “I’m on the clock so I’m gonna throw myself into the world as hard as I can until the world manages to take me out.” From s3′s cheeseburgers-for-breakfast and baiting-vampires-for-kicks, through s6′s raid on the vampire next, to s7′s kamikaze run on Dick Roman, to his 9.11 demon fight in Cain’s kitchen, to his end of s10 revenge against the Stynes, to handing himself over to Death in 10.23, to swallowing a soul bomb and flinging himself at Amara in 11.23. (luckily he chose to use his words instead of detonating himself, right?)

CASTIEL WAS THE ONLY PERSON DEAN WANTED TO SEE AGAIN BEFORE HE DIED ONCE AND FOR ALL.

He NEEDED Cas to show up and find him. He didn’t tell Cas about his deal, and Sam kept pressuring Dean to talk about the deal, but Dean just kept saying “later.” As if there was really gonna be a “later” for Dean.

He’s a man of his word, and I’m certain his intention was live up to the bargain HE CHOSE TO MAKE with Billie.

Notice he couldn’t even look Cas in the eye when they found him in the woods. Dean. Couldn’t look CAS in the eye.

(how many fanfics have centered around the fact that Dean stares back at Cas just as much as Cas stares at him? and here he can’t even meet Cas’s eyes? AT ALL?! AFTER SIX WEEKS OF FEAR AND ISOLATION AND WORRY AND SADNESS AND ANGST?!)

Because Dean knows this is it. This is the end. The looks on his face there are of a broken man.

And then Dean sees Mary. One person he neither expected to see, nor had any idea how to deal with in that situation. I think HER presence there is what made him hesitant when Billie showed up to collect her Winchester.

In the car, when the clock struck midnight, Sam called “It’s time.”

Dean was sitting IN THE FREAKING BACK SEAT. WITH CAS.

At Sam’s statement, Dean sneaks a heartbreaking glance at Cas, who slowly understands that Dean has Done Something Terrible in order to have escaped that prison. The look Cas gives him is even more heartbreaking. Dean can’t even bear it, and so looks away… (borrowed from @k-vichan‘s post here)

Okay…

The one variable Dean wasn’t counting on was MARY being there. Because she stepped in front of the bullet that he’d intended to take himself. Her mere PRESENCE there added about 10 layers of PROBLEMATIC for Dean, because he could live up to the deal he’d made and say his goodbyes to Sam and Cas… they’ve lived that scene before… but Mary’s presence was a wild card. Her presence was a spanner in the works, a deviation from what Dean thought was The Perfect Plan.

Dean had NO IDEA what Cas had been suffering through in his absence. He had NO IDEA that Cas would call Mary in for backup, because CAS couldn’t handle rescuing Dean alone. He’d been fucking up simple vampire hunts, because he’s been so depressed, isolated, and alone (just like Dean…). He couldn’t risk fucking up Dean and Sam’s rescue (because in Cas’s opinion, that’s all he was able to do.. mess things up and get in the way).

Dean also had NO IDEA that Cas and Mary would involve the BMoL (hello consequences of shady deals!).

Gah. I mean, there was just SO MUCH here. I should probably shut up.

So saying Dean did all of this just for Sammeh, because brodependency? Is essentially erasing the entire character of Dean Winchester, and the earth-shattering significance of everything that happened in this episode.

Because no. Just, no.

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k-vichan

I feel like I should chime in here since I kinda unintentionally made codependency my ‘thing’ to talk about, and I’ve had this post saved for a few days now. I wanted to think about it before really dissecting it. The codependency is something that severely stresses me out, and I came out of this ep with mixed feelings about Dean’s actions… but with most of them being generally positive.

My take on it is that it’s both – it’s a sign that the codependency is improving and yet very much still in play. Which is realistic, really – except in extreme situations, no one would really go from here to there in a matter of weeks.

Don’t forget that Sam has also played a major part in the codependency, and on Sam’s end there was some big improvement. Dean was making a decision, and Sam was respecting it. After 1.5 seasons of doing the opposite, followed by 1 season of saying it’s wrong but not really letting his actions speak louder than his words – this was huge.

As for Dean, it’s made pretty evident that Dean made the call to Billie because he couldn’t take it anymore. Where it gets a little fuzzy (and where there is some mixed evidence of the codependency still being in play) is the fact that as miserable as Dean was, he knew Sam was likely being subjected to the same treatment. However, he made the call to Billie on behalf of both of them – not just Sam. That’s also pretty huge. Codependency, at its worst, means completely ignoring your own needs. As Dean was at least partially attending to his own needs, that’s actually a pretty good sign.

(This is really only looking at the surface level stuff here – as others have dissected pretty thoroughly already, Dean has major, major abandonment issues. What he was being subjected to was ‘worse that hell,’ according to him. It’s unfortunate that it took a ‘worst case scenario’ for Dean to actually show some selfishness – that is, actually serving himself, personally, and not serving himself via Sam as a proxy, like the Gadreel situation.)

What’s worrying to me is that there clearly is still a lesson that Dean has not learned – and honestly, he might not ever learn – is that his life is not currency. His soul is not a bargaining chip. And the reason he has not learned this lesson because supernatural beings keep bargaining with him. Billie gave me some hope last season when she refused to bargain with him in ‘Red Meat,’ but she eventually fell for the same ‘my life for this deal’ line that Dean has been using for at least a decade now.

So, yeah. This all left me kinda hopeful for the codependency, but still pretty severely worried for Dean’s mental state. It wasn’t a coincidence that the ‘then’ sequence ended with Dean’s line about his life “only ends one way.”

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@mittensmorgul has talked about Dean and Cas being in similar situations of “aloneness” during the episode - Dean in literal isolation in prison and trapped in his head with nothing else to do, Cas in a metaphorical prison made of his loneliness and guilt and feelings of inadequacy.

I want to point out how agent Camp’s prediction did come true - not for Dean or Sam, but for Cas, who ended up talking. The isolation did drive him to spill out the truth of his feelings. And it’s interesting to see how agent Camp’s speech stresses the idea of isolation bringing up what one needs to hear - because the Winchesters do need to hear those words from Cas, that they mean a lot to someone, that they have worth for what they are, that they are not pieces that than be sacrificed interchangeably or at all.

While we’re at this, notice how Cas’ speech starts with the world needs you and then shifts to you mean a lot to me. Just like Dean said we need you first and then said I need you. This couple of dumbasses (because let’s be real Dean was right in his definition…) needs to be driven to desperation before spilling out the truth about their feelings, but still it’s not enough. As @awed-frog has well argued, Dean stays convinced that Cas doesn’t share the particular kind of feelings Dean feels for him (yes, he gave up an army for one guy, but that doesn’t mean Cas loves him in that very human way Dean loves him, does it? yes he said that they mean so much to him, but it’s about all of them, the Winchesters plural, right?) and Cas stays convinced that Dean sees him as a brother, which opens problems because Cas sees that Dean obviously doesn’t consider and treat him the same as his brother, which means that it’s a lie, right? (I don’t remember who has pointed out that Cas senses lies, so his distraught expression in 11x23 when Dean told him that he’s a brother might have been due to the fact that he sensed that it wasn’t really true… ouch.)

So they have both told the other something the other needed to hear, but not everything that the other needs to hear - and it’ll take more metaphorical isolation, more “staring at walls”, I suspect, to make the entire truth about their feelings surface.

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awed-frog

That’s an excellent point. We often discuss how Dean and isolation don’t mix, but in a way Cas would deal even worse with being left alone, wouldn’t he? because he’s a kind of a - hive animal, or something, and he’s used to hearing his brothers’ voices and presence as clearly as he’s aware of his own, and now - now it’s not clear what’s going on with that, but I think it’s safe to say Cas is sort of disconnected from Angel radio? And he’s crap at dealing with people, and yet he hates being alone, so I’m guessing that his doomed vampire hunt stemmed also from that - he’s probably noticed Sam and Dean get more than wounds and victories from their hunts - that they flirt with waitresses and bartenders, sometimes spend the night with people, other times get invited for tea and crumpets or end up bitching about life with some policeman or whatever, and I’m thinking Cas wanted some of that too when he headed down to Missouri. And instead, we know what he got - more rejection, more isolation, and more proof that he’s nothing like a human and that after all this time, he doesn’t even begin to understand how humans work.

If him stabbing Billie was a parallel for Dean calling Billie, though, then I’m even more worried about the consequences than I already was.

(Can’t we just get one happy episode? Christ, wouldn’t they celebrate Dean’s birthday in some way now they’re together in the Bunker and everyone’s alive? Uuuuugh.)

Yeah, this.

(also, did anyone else get shades of the crypt scene from this too? No, just me?)

(as far as the weight of the confessions go, at the very least)

Well I mentioned the “the world/me // we/I” thing - yes they were both moments in which they were driven to desperation enough to say things out loud but not the entire thing they needed to say, I guess. I don’t remember if I wrote this somewhere else or just in my head because everything is dizzy these days, but I think that between the crypt scene and this scene they have pretty much laid down similar cards on the table. They both believe they have made their feelings clear but the other doesn’t get it - Dean said he needs him and that they’re family, but he still hasn’t said family in which sense (Cas knows he’s not a brother for Dean, but he thinks the difference between him and Sam is quantitative thing, not qualitative); Cas has made all the big gestures - giving up everything for Dean, etc etc, but Dean thinks Cas’ love for him is not the same sentiment Dean feels for him - a mixture of angelic cosmic sentiment, growing attachment to a broken thing as Cas becomes broken too, and so on.

Dean needs to clarify what that “I need you” means, and Cas needs to clarify what that “you means so much to me” means. Need you how exactly? Mean what exactly? And of course trace the line between family feelings and individual feelings.

Urgh you guys are killing me with all this. This is just another example of how Dean and Cas are on relatively the same path, mirroring each others story lines but with Cas a few steps behind.

I think it was @mittensmorgul who drew on the parallels between the three shots of Dean and Sam in isolation and Cas being sat in a darkened bunker with shadows like prison bars behind him. Cas was as much in isolation as the Winchester’s were, and the only one who didn’t break was Sam.

Yes Sam and Dean need each other, but this at least proves one other vital point. Sam can cope on his own. Dean and Cas need each other.

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reblogged

12.09 First Blood

THE VERDICT

Oooohhhh boy. That was damn good. So much understated stuff in pretty much every single performance, too. Loved seeing the difference in Sam and Dean’s reactions to being confined to solitary. Isolation as Dean’s true hell has long been something I’ve had in the back of my head, so seeing that played so well in this was excellent. I’m disappointed to see Billie go, but as far as character deaths go it made sense and wasn’t gratuitous, so at least it’s not the rage-inducing kind of disappointed. And I’m relieved that they didn’t shove Mary back in the fridge.

A play-by-play recap with meta-adjacent notes is under the cut!

Ok, rebloging this again, because I remember you were wondering about the diner Mary was in in the first scene. According to the SuperWiki it is the same diner she and John had her first date in (as Dean told her in 12x01). I feel like the tumblr dot com meta community should have noticed this, but the episode all left us in a puddle of Cas emotions we didn’t.

Oooh yeah, it is, and she was drinking coffee just like Dean said they did on that date (I mean that’s not a wild stretch but :P)…

Anyway I was mostly just dropping by to suggest Mary blatantly pining for her lost husband goes alongside Cas and his moping, never mind the time they hang out in diners but…

(I feel it’s worth pointing out that though they don’t know it that Cas scene is during the brief time the Winchesters were legit dead)

I mean there’s bigger parallels as well about their mental state in general because they’re both messed up, but I like that Cas left his phone in that spot, just like at the end of 12x03 we get back to the Bunker and Mary had left John’s journal there - since once we see the phone alone without Cas moping over it waiting for a call, it actually is Dean ringing it.

Dean on the phone: “Stop telling people I’m dead”

OH MY GOSH THANK YOU. I’d been driving myself BONKERS trying to remember why I associated Mulroney’s diner with John and Mary’s history. I guess it’s a factor of not having completely internalized s12 yet the way I have past seasons, but the only reference I could come up with was John taking Mary out to dinner in 4.03 to propose to her… and that was at the Jaybird Diner… and I kept thinking I was losing it. :P

FIRST DATE. NOT MARRIAGE PROPOSAL. Thank you for clearing that up. :D

and then ugh oh mary with john’s JOURNAL, the paper record of his life, because that’s all that’s really left of him to communicate with Mary now, and Cas with Dean calling up on the phone… It’s the whole past/present thing yet again, too.

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reblogged
Anonymous asked:

tbh i'm gutted with billy's death, all in all i am still rather content with the show despite its flaws, the only thing that makes me bitter is the mostly unnecessary death of so many fantastic characters (charlie, abbadon, now billy, etc) while we are stuck with crowley who imo has become pretty pointless and annoying, i'd rather have one of those amazing women as regular than crowley, but alas, probably an unpopular opinion in this fandom tho

Hi there, and yeah, I wrote a bit about my initial reaction to Billie’s death last night here, and I have another very similar anon that I’m gonna paste below:

wait so … they killed off billie?? i’m having trouble processing that, surely they wouldn’t do that? she was such an interesting character, do you think she’ll come back somehow?

No, I don’t think Billie will be coming back. Stepping back from the story and looking at the whole narrative, she’s served her purpose, and the Winchesters (including Cas… I should probably make that an official blanket statement for the rest of forever, that Cas is ALWAYS included when I talk about “the Winchesters”) have fully thrown off their “destiny” that they’d been struggling against since the pilot episode. Or really, since forever (in universe).

God really has left the building, and the story is now fully in their hands, just as Chuck said back in s11.

Aside from the ickiness of killing off a female PoC character, her death makes sense within the narrative.

Her character had been established around the singular principle that what’s dead should stay dead. That was her raison d'être. As long as she existed in universe, the Winchesters couldn’t go about their business of reinventing the Natural Order to suit their needs.

Her death, at Castiel’s hands no less, has now shifted that burden of the balance of the Natural Order onto the ONE character who’s been straddling a strange line between worlds for years now.

Some of Billie’s last words were about the nature of the bargain Sam and Dean had made for her, and the fact that breaking it would have cosmic repercussions. Well, Cas is the one who broke the deal.

And Cas is also the one who’s been defying the Natural Order all on his own. For years. By not knowing where he belongs. Is he an angel or a man? This has been his journey.

What else is straddling this line in defiance of the Natural Order? The nephilim… Which is linked to Cas as well. Potentially also in 12.10 as a situation from Castiel’s more distant past, but ALSO through the events of 8.23, killing the nephilim as part of Metatron’s spell. I think all of this is tied together, and we’re going to see it become HIGHLY relevant to Castiel’s own personal struggle with making a formal decision about where he belongs (in a Big Picture kind of way). He’s been fighting to overcome his burden of guilt for so long, to truly be free to CHOOSE for himself exactly who and what he wants to be, that framing him as an abomination along the same lines as the nephilim, sitting on the fence between angel and human, now with this burden of debt to the universe for Billie’s death… it makes sense narratively.

Comparing Billie’s narratively logical demise (leaving aside the real-world ickiness I mentioned before) to the absolutely gross means (and reasons) for Charlie’s death is not really fair. I know that out here in the real world, we’re extremely sensitive to these problematic choices, and I never want to diminish the reality of real-world issues like this, but if all of these were blank characters with our personal feelings for all of them were wiped away, and the plot points that are unfolding were laid over these faceless stand-ins, her death holds up in-story.

Not that I’m justifying her death as a character from a detached perspective outside the story, but within the story her character (whether it had always been played by a fantastic WoC or if they had initially cast Billie as a pasty white dude, which we’d also have found reason to complain about back in early s11…), that character’s demise was a narrative necessity.

I hope this makes sense.

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I still can’t get over the fact that Dean Winchester, Mr. I Must Always Drive Unless Gravely Wounded Or Some Shit, rode in the freaking baCK SEAT of a car.

He wasn’t under arrest. He wasn’t a child. He wasn’t trying to play nice with his parents in 1978 (like in 5.13).

When the heck else has Dean EVER freaking rode in the damn back seat of ANYTHING.

Because you KNOW Sam would’ve deferred to Dean to Pick His Seat. Because when it comes to Winchesters and cars, that’s official Dean Territory.

Yet… there he was, sitting in the back seat with Cas, while Mary drove and Sam rode shotgun.

Like… that’s not a small statement.

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floralmotif

Does the “Dean, he who drives” logic apply to other people’s cars? I can’t remember. It’s Mary’s car, so I thought him not driving made sense but I still like this interpretation.

Regardless, it’s still impressive and telling that Dean would sit in the back seat. He pretty much never does except for very specific reasons. Even if he was respecting his mom’s want to drive her car, it means something that he chose to sit in the back with Cas instead of shot gun. It’s still not a small statement no matter what.

Yes, it was Mary’s car so it made sense for her to drive it, but still Dean could’ve sat shotgun and no one would have batted an eye. Instead, Dean chose to sit in the back.

But you know what, there’s more. Thing is, Cas could’ve sat shotgun next to Mary like he’d done in the trip to the prison. No one would have batted an eye either. Mary and Cas, the ones who drove there in the driver and shotgun’s seats, still staying in those seats, while Dean and Sam, the ones who were picked up, in the backseat. That’s how it usually work. It would have made sense for Dean and Sam to be in the backseat together, as technically they were the passengers to Mary and Cas’ ride.

But Cas chose to sit in the back with Dean, too.

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floralmotif

This is some pointed shit right here. That is not just a camera zoom out. That is /the/ camera zoom out. That’s the zoom when you want to show emphasis. They are emphasizing this way too hard this season for it to just be “Cas feels out of place”. I mean, feeling out of place sucks and can definitely have lasting, painful effects on people, but this is a tv show and big drastic changes are the name of the game because visual storytelling and plot weight. At this point, this plot weighs about as much as the sun.

Cas’s own journey is important but you gotta think about how you can culminate that with visual weight after this many years. At this point, if it was just “hey, you’re family.” It probably would have ended by now. Plots in tv and movies generally have to have a definitive payoff because they need to be filmable and understandable by most people(unless you are a Cohen Brothers movie). It doesn’t have to be bombastic but it has to have lasting relevance and meaning that extends further than anything else during it’s buildup. The show’s kept it pretty neutral until now but this really emphasizes the difference in how Cas feels against how he sees the Winchesters. The thing is though, they’ve retread the “You’re family” thread so many times by now. What’s Cas gonna do? Hug everyone and say “yeah, I belong here. This is my home. I see that now” and that’s it? That’s all fine and good and I would love to see Cas feel like he belongs but… that’s the kind of plot that ends by now. Maybe it’s slow and after this, the Winchesters go out of their way to accommodate him and make him feel welcome and maybe over time, he feels like he belongs. That could work but it would feel a little cheap to me. It would be realistic but… depending on how they do it, it could easily feel forced. He’s just called them out of their BS. He could do it again and likely will, which I would love, but it’s still not definitive on both ends. It only gives the audience what we already know. It’s a great thing for him to do but it’s not a true beginning we haven’t already seen attempted. I could be wrong and maybe they have something wondrous up their sleeve but usually… when an “I don’t feel I belong here” plot goes on too long.. the character leaves. Because you can only retread the same thread so many times and keep the weight behind it. Long things like this need a payoff with as much bang as they’ve built up or the gun backfires.

 You know what kind of plots get “the zoom out of isolated longing”? Love plots. Long ass, slow burn, star-crossed love plots. Come at me show, I swear.

Cas still thinks he’s not needed and so does Dean.. aagh.

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tenoko1

I find it interesting how Cas clearly want to hold on to Dean longer. Like, their presence in his life- which has basically been his only grounding point for seasons- is completely unstable right now. They keep getting taken away from him- in a literal and mortal way, to the point Cas is fully aware it is breaking him.

And here’s Cas, desperately wanting to hold on, like that lifeline isn’t enough, meanwhile Dean is distracted by the unexpected appearance of his mother being there- the family he has come to expect not to be able to rely on, and simultaneously through the following scenes, Dean’s unable to meet Cas’ eye, because Dean knows what’s coming, and is planning to be the one Billie takes.

I don’t think Dean cracked in solitary. I think he thought about Sam having to live out his life in solitary, and that is what prompted Dean to call Billie, already expecting to trade his life for Sam’s. It’s the end of S2 all over again, except Dean is making a deal with a Reaper rather than a demon.

It’s almost like Dean has given up on himself, like he’s tired and worn down and basically just can’t anymore. Meanwhile, Castiel clings to them as the only thing he has and loves, and they are the only thing keeping him from succumbing to everything that’s threatening to crush him; the guilt, the PTSD, the self doubt, the self-hatred, just all of it.

I think we’re reaching a point in the narrative of the story where something has to break. Something has to be the catalyst to cause a turnaround and change. They’ve pushed it to that point. The question remains how will it happen and in what ways will it change the characters and their outlooks and relationships.

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“This sad, doomed little world,” says Cas.

I wondered about that line of dialogue when it first appeared in the promo, since it didn’t seem to match up with what we’d been seeing on screen. I now think it’s reflecting Cas’ own mental and emotional state. Because the world isn’t doomed at the moment (for once!). The world is in better shape right now, after the recent defeat of Lucifer, than it’s been in a long time. Amara’s gone. As far as we know, there are no supernatural Big Bads wreaking havoc. Just the run of the mill monsters and ghost and demons, and they’re manageable. All things considered, the world’s doing pretty well.

Cas seemingly not being able to see that is just one more window into his depression.

Remember the way Dean got in season seven?

DEAN: That's just great. This is stupid. Our quality of life is crap. We got Purgatory's least wanted everywhere, and we're on our third "The World's Screwed" issue in, what, three years? We've steered the bus away from the cliff twice already.
SAM: Someone's got to do it.
DEAN: What if the bus wants to go over the cliff?
SAM: You think the world wants to end?
DEAN: I think that if we didn't take its belt and all its pens away each year that, yeah, the whole enchilada woulda offed itself already.
BOBBY: I want to talk about your new party line… "The world's a suicide case. We save it, it just steals more pills"?
DEAN: Bobby, I'm here, okay? I'm on the case. What's the problem?
BOBBY: I've seen a lot of hunters live and die. You're starting to talk like one of the dead ones, Dean.
DEAN: No, I'm talking the way a person talks when they've had it, when they can't figure out why they used to think all this mattered.
-7x09

Dean was projecting his own depression onto the entire world. I’m wondering if Cas is doing the same thing. It wouldn’t be the first time his storyline has echoed Dean’s.

As if we needed another reason to be concerned about him...

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Is Mick going to be our new long-term Author self-insert/dark mirror, do we think? Chuck is gone, Metatron is gone--the position is open!

He had the typewriter. He had the fourth wall breakage. He had the phrasing: “Let me paint you a picture...”

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Anonymous asked:

How do you feel about the writers choosing to kill Billie off?

*sigh*

It’s a roller coaster ride, tbh. My first thoughts were the in-the-moment canon implications of essentially “killing Death” again…

The second I saw it I was like HOLY SHIT WTF?! And then there was Cas standing there, and everyone is like O_O

But, Cas’s little speech there, and the fact that Billie had been the one being left in the universe who held this threat over Sam and Dean, the Permanently Dead Forever threat… well, that’s sort of off the table again…

But hooboy is this gonna be bad for Cas. Hopefully not as cosmically unbalancing as unleashing the Leviathans, but it seems like the kind of thing that’s gonna reverberate…

I mean, I love his reasons, and I love that he would do anything for the Winchesters. But yipes.

Then my second thoughts were of the ohno why the fuck did you kill the awesome badass woc character that we all collectively adore?! And I’m torn.

Between the necessity borne of the incredibly close parallels they’re drawing between s6 and s12, and also between Dean’s past actions (killing Death to spare his brother and the memory of his mother) and Castiel’s current actions (killing Death to spare Dean and his brother and mother)…

(and other parallels I’ll think through more coherently later, because there was a LOT of weight behind Cas’s choice there…)

But still… badass fantastic WoC character that’s pretty much beloved by everyone… even when she was threatening our boys, we still loved her…

But still… the parallels they just cemented… They are really doing this, the whole s6 redux thing… and it needed to happen… and I can see that because it lines up perfectly in the tangle of red string I’ve got pinned all over the wall…

but… Billie…

yeah *gnashes teeth*

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flyingfish1

ohno why the fuck did you kill the awesome badass woc character that we all collectively adore?!”

Yeah, I agree :/ 

Given a choice between Mary and Billie, I admit I’m glad that we still have Mary, but... there didn’t have to be a choice at all.

Also, to me, it felt... it felt like Bucklemming managing to screw up a death they didn’t even write. Heh. Sam and Dean being caught at the end of the previous episode was so contrived. Therefore, their needing to escape felt contrived. Billie dying for it felt contrived. I’d prefer it if she weren’t dead at all, but at least give her a death in service of a better storyline, show! 

ymmv.

I’ll be interested to see what the consequences are, anyway.

Mmm, yes, parallels. Food for thought.

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greywrenn

This is Not a Date

Prompts 8. “Wanna bet?”, 17. “Looks like we’ll be trapped for a while…", and 45. “Tell me a secret.”

Sam/Eileen

They’re somewhere between the 14th and 15th floors when the lights start to flicker. Normally, Sam would guess something ghostly or demonic, but this isn’t a ghost hunting trip. No, he and Eileen are just supposed to be doing recon and research at the victim’s office.

“Storm?” Eileen says ruefully, eyeing the lights.

Sam nods. He and Eileen had taken this job because her truck could handle the snow better than the Impala (which Dean had been surprisingly not defensive about); they’d dropped Dean off at the police station before carrying on.

The lights flicker once more and then the elevator shudders to a halt. The lights short out for good, leaving only dull orange emergency lights along the top of the walls.

“Shit,” Sam mutters, immediately pulling his phone out of his pocket. No cell service. Perfect. He turns to Eileen, hoping she can make out his lip movements in the poor lighting. He waves his phone a little, then points at her phone, half-miming the question. “Any service on yours?”

Eileen frowns down at her own phone, then shakes her head apologetically. “You’ll have to try the emergency button.”

Right, because she wouldn’t be able to tell if anyone answered. He’s suddenly thankful he has his FBI badge with him in case whoever busts them out has any questions about why they’re at this building in the middle of the night. Stepping forward, Sam jabs the red button a few times. After a minute, a staticky female voice chirrups through.

“Hello? This is Emergency Services.”

“Uh, yeah, hi. We’re stuck in an elevator at 281 Water Street.”

“Is anyone injured or in danger?”

“No.”

“How many people are there?”

“Just two of us.”

“Right, well, we’ve got a lot of problems around the city right now. A few power lines are down. Hopefully once we fix the power, you’ll be all set. Do you have lights?”

“Some. Just the emergency ones.”

“Ok. Well, if the regular lights come back on, but the elevator doesn’t move, call us again and we’ll send someone to help you. But I’m afraid you’re stuck for awhile.”

“Right. Great. Uh, thanks,” Sam finishes, trying not to sound frustrated. It’s not this poor woman’s fault they’re stuck, and he’s sure she’s probably dealing with a lot of nasty calls tonight.

“I’m sorry, sir, I have to take another call. But, again, if there’s a further issue and you need assistance, please call.”

“We will.”

The call drops out and Sam turns back to Eileen, who looks at him with a mix of hope and resignation.

“Looks like we’ll be trapped for a while,” he shrugs with as much apology as he can muster.

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