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something bordering on weird

@flyingfish1 / flyingfish1.tumblr.com

Fangirl. Fan of fandom. Recovering lurker. Introvert. She/her. Multifandom blog. SPN, Black Sails, OFMD, Good Omens, etc. Also contains sporadic meta, stuff about writing, recipes, and cats.
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Bob Singer and “Those Actors”, a story in two parts

Jensen: So I remember going up to Bob, and I’m like, “Bob, hey, is that what you’re looking for, is that too much, is that too little? Like, give me a little guidance here.” And Bob, in a very Bob Singer way, just looks at me and goes, “You’re not gonna be one of those actors, are ya?” [Supernatural Then and Now S1EP4]

Misha: And I said, “Bob, is there anything that you can tell me going into the second season here about the character, directions that you’d like to see me go in?” And he looked at me with utter disgust in his eyes, and he said, “You’re not gonna be one of those actors, are you?” [Comic-Con 2017 Confessional: SUPERNATURAL 00:54]

Three parts

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.@RobBenedict : the first time I actually spoke as God, I asked Bob Singer, was that ok? He said you’re not gonna be one of those actors are you? Which he said to @JensenAckles in S1 too. #SPNDEN [SPN Denver 9/17/22, tweet by FangasmSPN]

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Jules: It’s quite really an incredible relationship then between the director and editor, you are chipping away the last pieces of marble on the sculpture. I mean you’re revealing their vision. Obviously there’s then times when you’re enhancing what they’ve done, things that they wouldn’t have thought of because they are under that time pressure or they just didn’t think of it. So you’re both building on each other’s vision of that final story.

Jimmy: That gets back to my earlier point about – not necessarily wanting to know what the director wants. If the director tells you exactly what they wanted, then you’re going to be cutting what the director wants and you’re not going to be using your own creativity. There’ve been plenty of times where I’ve been sitting with a director and they’ve been like “You know what, that’s not the way I envisioned it, but I really like what you did there.” In today’s non-linear editing world, I can always give them what they want if they don’t like what I’ve done. It’s very easy. I mean, we can make a million cuts and never destroy the footage. So, yeah, it’s incredible doing this all. It’s so much fun.

Jules: So who comes in after the director?

Jimmy: Phil Sgriccia is the one who comes in and takes the first pass. Phil was an editor and he has such great knowledge of the show, so it’s great having him in the room. Phil and I sound like a bickering husband and wife when we’re in the bay. We are yelling and we are fighting over everything! It’s all in good fun, but whenever I get a new assistant, the look on their face after they see the first time with Phil is amazing.

Then Bob Singer will come in and do his pass. I swear Bob and Phil share a brain, because it’s very rare that we change more then a few things after Phil messes with it. The thing I love about Bob is his experience. All of us could be thinking and pondering and stressing over how to make a cut work and Bob will look at it once and have the simplest, cleanest solution. He’s just that good and nothing rattles him. Phil and Bob’s notes are from the aspect of a producer; so a lot of that might be cutting lines, cutting dialogue to make time, etc. When Andrew Dabb comes in, his notes are going to be a combination of the writers of that episode and his own notes.

Finally Bob and Andrew come back into the room and then we argue about everyone’s notes and then we make the show. It’s good. It gives you a little bit of taste of everybody, you know. You get the writer’s ideas on things. You get the producer’s side of it.

We’re all allowed to talk during the whole process and that’s why I think people love working on the show. It keeps you fresh. You get to come into work and try things. I’m never afraid to try anything. I never feel like Phil, Bob or Andrew are going to get mad at me for trying something that’s way outside the box.

One of the times I went completely just off the script and just went nuts was when Sam cures himself with the Holy Oil. (Editor’s note: 11.02 Form and Void)

When I cut that I was like okay, I want to have Sam saying things but we don’t even see him say it. He’s not talking. I messed with all the sound and started messing with all the picture and I went crazy. Phil, who was the director of that show (and one of our best directors I might add), saw it and he’s like, “Love it.” We ended up cutting it down because it was too long but Phil never said, “Dude. What did you do with this? This wasn’t like I envisioned.” He just went with it and said, “Yeah, let’s go with it.” So that’s amazing when you have that.

Acknowledgements Interview by Jules Wilkinson, Supernatural Wiki Admin Many thanks to Jimmy Pickel for his generosity in doing this interview. If you enjoyed this interview, you can tweet Jimmy at @JamesRPickel

This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License. Please link back to this article if quoting from it: Supernatural From Script to Screen: Editor James Pickel.

For inquiries about the Supernatural Wiki, you can contact Jules at [email protected]

Interview conducted 6th October 2016; Posted 12 December 2016

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Based on Twitter, I take it that TPTB at @cw_spn are trotting out the “story goes where it goes” excuse again. 

As a writer this bullshit infuriates me, because a good writer, like improv comedians or jazz musicians, always maintains structural control over their material. Dropping control means you’re not doing your job.

And yes, sometimes a new and interesting turn appears. Things change, characters evolve, contracts aren’t renewed, etc etc.  But you then make the minute and constant adjustments so that the new direction maintains internal consistency (ex: a smart character isn’t suddenly suicidally stupid without cause), and the end result is the destination you planned.  

And then you own it, you don’t blame it on some vague “story wanted” as though it has more power over your words than you do.

Because no, that’s not how it works.  Not if you’re a professional.

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butterflydm

Some people were wondering about this, so I took screenshots – last season, Singer and Carver were both listed on the end card; this season, it’s just Carver.

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magess

This is good, right? Has to be good?

It is good, actually! Robert Singer is now billed as an Executive Consultant instead of an Executive Producer. Now, I doubt that Singer was actually demoted by his own higher ups, or there would’ve been some drama behind it; it’s more likely that Singer is backing off on his own for whatever reason. Maybe he’s tired, maybe he wants to work on something else, maybe last season’s clusterfuck has something to do with it.

Semi-boring talk about how stuff sometimes works under the cut.

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neven-ebrez

do you know why robert singer wasn't under the executive producer title?

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Simply because that’s not his title anymore. @justanotheridijiton and I had been pondering over that this summer, why imdb didn’t update him for season 11, but did the others.

No clue how it will effect the story lines as of right now. Under the structure tho, Carver is now the only one with the final say it looks like…

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defilerwyrm

When ratings and ad prices plummet, things get “rearranged” at the top. In most cases you’d see someone sacked. In some you see them voluntarily drift out of an active role. It’s interesting that they’re keeping this quiet.

All we have are educated guesses, of course.

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reblogged

wait, robert singer is not an executive producer anymore?

Holy shit, he’s listed as “Executive Consultant,” same as Eric Kripke. WHAT???

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flyingfish1

What does that mean, in practical terms? He’s still directing some eps this season, right? Is he not involved with the writing anymore or is this just a symbolic title change/pay raise type of thing?

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violue

Robert Singer @ Chicon

Let me preface this with one important truth: I hate Robert Singer. I hate his directing style, I hate that he’s the old male version of the “bro’s only, fuck side characters” types I see in fandom, I hate his/Carver’s “we go where the story takes us” BS, I hate that his presence on the show is the reason the HORRIBLE writing of Brad Buckner & Eugenie Ross-Leming gets inflicted on me every year, I hate how the cast act less loose and free when he’s around. Hate him. 

Okay. We got that out of the way.

Before a bunch of people start making plans to ask angry questions and make passive aggressive photo ops with Singer, stop and remember that you’re mostly adults, ok?

Like I’m having fun imagining the random photo-ops people are coming up with on twitter, but that’s… that’s imagining. 

In reality, a bunch of questions about “Why is Supernatural misogynistic?” “Why isn’t Destiel canon?” “Why do you use comical zoom shots at dramatic moments?” “Why is your wife such a terrible fucking writer?” will probably be uncomfortable to people not sharing your (and by that I mean our) dislike for him, and might even lead to people getting in trouble, depending on the reaction from Singer/other fans in the room/the Creation staff. 

More than that, Singer probably will have a laundry list of stock answers for the “tough questions”, involving sacred cows and going where the story takes them. Ask him about Destiel, he’ll say that’s not what the show’s about. Ask him about Charlie, he’ll try to placate by saying “no one stays dead on this show”. 

What I see happening is people going to get their aggression out on him and being met with a brick wall, and more fandom division occurring. “See how the Destihellers and SJWs act at conventions! They’re the worst part of the fandom, just fire Misha and never bring back Charlie so they can take their fans with them. Us REAL fans are happy to have Singer there.” 

If Cas/Charlie/etc fans get represented by people booing and making sarcastic photo-ops, I just don’t think that’s going to make him take us seriously. 

So I don’t know, please just keep that in mind. We can’t get mad at people for being disrespectful of Misha at cons and then turn around and do it to someone else without being hypocrites. I’m not saying don’t ask him tough questions, but… think long and hard about how you approach it. If you get up there and start using accusatory language, it’s not going to go well.

I can’t tell anyone what to do, but I can ask you to think long and hard about whatever you decide to do. You might think a photo-op that highlights the show’s misogyny or mistreatment of Cas is going to be a hoot and a half, but the reality might be discomfort and more fandom division.

So… keep that in mind?

(PS: I know that not everyone who dislikes Singer dislikes him over Castiel/Destiel/Charlie, those are just some of the more popular reasons.)

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flyingfish1

I think that if the goal is to make a point about the things that we care about and the things that we’d like to see on the show, then enthusiasm might be the more effective tactic. I don’t really know how that could be utilized when it comes to Destiel, for instance (as the OP says, he’s probably got a stock answer for any questions on that subject)...

but when it comes to female characters, my two cents would be to gather up all your love and enthusiasm and interest in them and just throw it at him. Comments, questions, cosplay, everything. (Fanart? Would there be an opportunity to show him some of that?) Make it loud, make it visible. Make it clear that there’s an enthusiastic audience that is salivating for more. 

Like--okay, I don’t watch many con vids because of the potential secondhand embarrassment factor, so I don’t know how appropriate all of these questions would be, but off the top of my head-- ask him if he’s seen the support for a Jody/Donna/Alex/Claire spinoff. Ask him if Claire’s experiences in s10 have her wanting to be a hunter and, if so, if we’ll see her development in that area. Ask him if we’re going to see Krissy and her gang again. Ask him about Rowena’s plans, and if we’re going to see more of human!Olivette or any of the rest of the Grand Coven. Ask about what made them decide to bring Claire back and if we’ll be seeing any other long-lost characters, like Missouri. Ask about more Josie Sands/Henry Winchester flashbacks. Ask if demon!Bela is in the cards (people bring up Adam pretty frequently, right? But he’s not the only fan favourite trapped in Hell). Ask how Hannah is doing, running Heaven, and if we’ll see more of them. And, yeah, ask about seeing more of Charlie. Let him know how awesome “Fan Fiction” and “Hibbing 911″ and other female character-heavy episodes were. And so on. That kind of thing.

I don’t know. I mean, yes, ask tough questions too, of course, but I think that simply making him see how much love there is for these characters is also worthwhile. We’re not just criticizing because we’re trying to be PC (which I think some of tptb might assume to be the case)--we’re doing it because we genuinely care, and we’d care even more about the show in its entirety if we got to see more of what we love.

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My View on Bob Singer’s Destiel Mention

Okay, so, I have been meaning to write this up ever since the Misha & Bob panel happened at JiB, but haven’t had the time yet. As I just got tagged in this post by pirrofarfalla, I kinda figured this is the moment to do just that. I wanted  just to expand a little bit about what I heard Bob Singer say and what context I think needs to be added to his Destiel comment. Because I have seen his comment about Destiel not having been talked about in the writers’ room around Tumblr, but I feel that without the rest of the panel comments next to it, it is incomplete and paints a much bleaker picture than the one I walked out of the room with. Because as a DeanCas shipper, I have never felt more positive about Singer’s showrunner view on Dean and Cas.

What I also want to add is that even having sat in the panel room as he spoke, there is a good chance that the smallish group of people that was also there, or those who have maybe seen vids of it (if you have a link to one, please let me know), will have walked away with a very different pov than I did. One that is just as legit. All I can say is that my view of Bob Singer changed drastically this weekend, but if yours didn’t or your interpretation of his words is different, I totally respect that. It happened multiple times that dustydreamsanddirtyscars purplesummer91 sayurishiro lack-of-preference  itstimetobattlemydemons and I walked out of the panel rooms talking about what had been said only to realise we each heard different things. Undoubtedly, this will have happened here, too. All I can say is that this is my personal takeaway.

So, over the course of the panel, Singer talked about 3 things I wanna focus on here in relation to his DeanCas/representation comments.

Firstly, he said that basically they write themselves into a corner with every season finale. They let the seasonal story finish and then start painting the new one with broad strokes. While he didn’t specify, I take this to be the broad seasonal themes. (He specifically mentioned they are talking light/dark and how to portray God for next season) First, this is just Singer and Carver; a few days later the writers get added and the season evolves from there. It seemed like quite the back-and-forth-and-exchanges process. (God what I wouldn’t give to be a fly on the wall there.)

While you could argue this being proof of lack of vision, I actually feel very happy that this is the approach, because it means they truly, as Singer also said, let the story develop naturally. Which means that at the start of each season’s creation, nothing is either on or off the table. There’s no forced How I Met Your Mother endings they wanna stick to, just because that was the plan all along. They truly let the story as they see it develop naturally. Will that story (sometimes) be different than the one we envision, of course. But for me, it was very heartening to hear that there is such flexibility.

And that is the second point I wanna make. Yes, I understand the sadness about there not being a firm yes on DeanCas going canon, on the characters not having been discussed in such terms in the writers room, but truly it isn’t off the table either. And, again a personal opinion, I certainly do not feel like he is against it per se. He just hasn’t seen canon work in the story up to now, but I do feel like if he were to feel it would be where the story should go, he would not oppose it. And yes, there are so many comments to make about this and so much to say about that, legitemately so, but I choose to view it positively. Above all, I want a story I trust and believe in and this seems to me like the most honest way to create that, despite the mistakes that get made in the process. 

Thirdly, Singer also said that there is undoubtedly a lot of love between these men (Dean, Cas, and Sam). He did specify he meant that in a non-sexual way, but if there is any doubt about the way the showrunners view Cas in the Winchester dynamic, doubt no more. He is loved and he loves and that Singer confirmed whole-heartedly.

To make a long story short, I came out of JiB thinking I had done a 180 on how I feel about Bob Singer. Agree or disagree with the story he is telling and how he is telling it, that is your right. Neither he nor any of TPTB are perfect.  But his love for the characters, the story, the universe radiated off him and I for one feel very grateful he said yes just over 10 years ago to help this young guy Eric Kripke out with this little monster show and has continued to do that for 2 other showrunners since. Because combined with Jensen’s comment that, whenever Bob comes up to direct, it feels like dad’s coming home, I am certain we would not be flailing over a season 10 finale right now were he not involved in the show as.

I’ve been thinking a lot about thiss the past few days.

First off here’s the portion of the video where he talks about Destiel. It starts around 15:30  regarding a a question about killing Charlie. (After Misha hits the mic into his face.)

Here’s what he said word for word.

Question:…How did you consider that killing off your only queer female character, and how that translates to the fans who are often in the LGBT community. And she meant a lot to a lot of people and how that affected…((applause/can’t make out the rest)).
Singer: Well I’ll give you two answers. We felt that me were really presenting an LGBT character in a very positive light when we created Charlie…that she could be a role model for people. And we’re very aware of that in the room. In terms of Charlie’s death we go kind of where the story takes us and her death had nothing to do with her being gay. Um, I know there’s a lot of stuff that goes around out there about how we treat gay people and the who Destiel thing, I can tell you - I know the actors get this question al the time - I can tell you in the writer’s room this never ever comes up. We love all these characters, we try to treat them with a lot of respect. And - I don’t say this in a sexual way - there’s a lot of love between these characters. People can interpret that any way they want. We’re not here to dictate how the people feel about the characters on the show. I mean we have Castiel people. we have Dean people. After one year I got a letter: “I;m never gonna watch this show again because you din’t do enough with Dean this year, it was all Sam” and the same day I got a letter saying “I can’t watch this show because it was al Dean and not Sam.” So people get involved in a character and want more of that character. w try to write every character to the best of our ability and at the end of the day, we go where the story takes us. We want to be provocative and the fact that - and we love Charlie - and the fact that so many people are upset that Charlie died we think is a good thing in the sense that “wow, we had you invested in this character so we really did out job.” And some characters are going to die ‘cause that’s where the story takes us. But please, don’t think that had anything to do with Charlie’s sexuality. It’s just where the story took us.

Having just transcribed that, I think what Singer is saying is that “we did not kill Charlie for being gay. We haven’t failed to make destiel cannon because we don’t want to depict gay romance. The sexuality/politics of it does not come up, we just go with the story.”

And I agree with sleepsintheimpala that this can be nothing but positive for Destiel in that, they just follow the story and characters. And I don’t think he meant to say that Destiel never comes up in the writers room. I think what he meant to reassure us is that “we don’t sit in the writers room plotting to kill gay characters or queerbait.”

So. Yeah.

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fozmeadows

OK, no. This doesn’t fly at all.

When Singer says that they didn’t kill Charlie because she was gay, he’s fundamentally - and, I’d argue, wilfully - misunderstanding the problem. The assertion was never that Charlie died because she was gay, in the sense that the writers killed her for her orientation; it was that killing your only queer character is a really shitty thing to do, regardless of your reasons, and especially when your show has a long history of both killing women and queerbaiting. Saying you didn’t do those things on purpose doesn’t change the fact that you still did them; it doesn’t magically make them okay. And if you’re still doing the exact same thing after ten seasons, even when - as demonstrated by your own rhetoric - you’re aware of the problem? Then it doesn’t matter that you’re not targeting women for death because they’re women, or denying queer narratives out of vocal homophobia: you’re also not taking intelligent, active steps to redress the issue or give those characters greater representation, either. Because you’re not discussing it. Because you don’t think it matters. Because you think there’s a sort of narrative neutrality in failing to mention this stuff, instead of an ingrained bias so deep-seated and normative, you only assume it’s fair.

The assertion isn’t that Bob Singer killed off a queer female character because he hates women or lesbians: it’s that his motives are irrelevant to the outcome, because the woman in question is still dead, and he didn’t care about keeping her alive.

And saying the the issue of the characters’ sexuality never comes up in the writer’s room like it exonerates his choices? Holy fuck, that is not a good thing, and it’s sure as hell not a defence. What it means is that, despite their apparent intention to create a positive portrayal of an LGBT character with Charlie, the writers didn’t discuss how killing her would undermine that effort, or talk about how particular tropes are especially harmful when applied to queer characters. If they had discussed Charlie’s sexuality as a factor that was deeply relevant to her portrayal, then they might have realised that, historically speaking, queer characters don’t get happy endings, and that killing her the way they did - offscreen, in defiance of her capabilities, to motivate the male leads, at the hands of someone who was damn near a Nazi - was about the grossest possible thing they could’ve done, short of subjecting her to sexual violence or torture. If they were absolutely, irrevocably wedded to killing Charlie, they could still have done it in a way that respected her agency and her competence, but they didn’t do that; they didn’t even try. They gave her a cheap slasher-thriller death, and then Singer has the fucking gall to pat himself on the back for it, because clearly, people being upset by it means they made the right call.

Listen: let me tell you a secret. People cared so much about Charlie, not just because she was an awesome character who powerfully represented the Supernatural fanbase, but because the writers assured us she wouldn’t die. Bob Singer and Jim Michaels both said Charlie was safe, and that meant the audience was able to invest in her. Why is this so important? Because compassion fatigue is a real thing, and it absolutely applies to the way an audience receives a narrative. Supernatural, like Game of Thrones, is a show that kills a lot of characters, and while that can up your emotional investment early on, after a while, you withdraw from the story. You stop caring about new characters, because you hurt when they die, and if their death or destruction is inevitable, then why even get invested in the first place? Why risk being hurt? But after so many seasons of death on Supernatural, people felt safe to invest in Charlie - a character who not only embodied the audience, but who was exactly the type of character we’d traditionally expect the show to kill off - because we were told she was safe. Breaking that contract was an act of bad faith, and it’s a card you can only play once. Every scrap of loyalty and emotional capital the show has built up since Charlie’s introduction, Bob Singer just spent in a single, shittily-constructed episode - and he thinks that’s a good thing, because he doesn’t understand that that’s what he did.

“It’s just where the story took us,” says Singer. Here’s what I say: bullshit. Stories aren’t sentient, they aren’t static: people make them up, and people can change them. There is no precious, inviolable muse that dictates what happens next, and when you have creative control, as Singer does, you’re not being forced to answer to someone else. So when he says “we go where the story takes us” to excuse killing their only queer character, that’s a fucking cop-out of the highest order, because “the story” is not a sentient fucking entity with a say in how it’s told. Charlie died because Bob Singer, Brad Buckner and Eugenie Ross-Lemming wanted her dead; because they decided to kill her, and that’s a fucking end of it. 

But here’s the thing: when Singer sits there, straight-faced, and says the question of Charlie’s sexuality never came up in the writer’s room - when he acts like the story couldn’t have gone another way? He’s a fucking liar. Because Robbie Thompson, who created Charlie, arranged multiple meetings to try and save her, presented multiple other story options, to try and convince Singer that her death was a bad idea, and you can damn well bet he pointed out that killing their only queer character was a shitty trope to deploy. Multiple actors and writers spoke up against her death, both during filming and subsequently, with a number of cast members coming out to decry the decision at cons and on social media. Hell, when Jensen Ackles got the script for Dark Dynasty, he went to Singer and argued against killing her, too. The story didn’t have to go down that way, and it doesn’t fucking matter why Singer killed her; he still didn’t think she was worth more to the story alive than dead, and in a show with zero other queer characters and an appalling track record re the treatment of women, then I’m going to go out on a fucking limb and say that yeah, maybe Charlie didn’t die because she was a lesbian, but that was damn well reason enough to let her live.   

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The work everyone did on “The Pilot” was phenomenal, so it’s no surprise Supernatural got picked up for a series. At that point, according to Kripke, the studio said he needed to partner with an executive producer with production experience. They paired him with Robert Singer, which Kripke describes as being “like an arranged marriage, because you’re going to be working more closely with that person than anyone else. It’s worked out beyond both of our expectations.” Robert Singer concurs. “We’re very much of the same mind, Eric and I, and I think that he fills in certain gaps I have and I fill in certain gaps he has. Kripke feels Singer doesn’t get nearly the credit he deserves for the complexity he brings to the show when filling in those gaps. “He is the one who really demands the characters have depth.” The studio also wanted Kripke to bring in someone to help build the mythology, to build stories, to work with the writers, so “David [Nutter] told Eric, ‘Get Shiban in here,’ remembers co-executive producer John Shiban. “So we met and immediately clicked.” Shiban brought years of The X-Files experience to the table, and with regards to mythology, he posed the question, “Can you build a boat that will still float, but without all its pieces? Because … there are discoveries that are going to be made along the way, there’ll be characters that you stumble on.” The idea of Meg, who turned out to be very central to the mythology as an undercover demon, was a perfect example of that. They started hiring staff writers as soon as the series was picked up, and Kripke hit the ground running, ready to dive into the lore he adores. “I showed up the first day of work with eighty urban legends that were my favorites.” For the first batch of episodes, the legends tended to come first. “I had a pile that I really wanted to do,” Kripke explains. “The storylines of the boys came later. But once we realized how good they were and the depth of storytelling we could tell about them, we really began to focus more on what their issues were, and what interesting story we wanted to tell about them. With their focus flipped, they started to only use urban legends that fit with the boys’ story. And Kripke thinks the second half of season one was better than the first half because of that.

Knight, Nicholas. Supernatural: The Official Companion Season One. Titan Books, 2007: 12-13. (via justanotheridijiton)

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We didn’t know exactly how the angels would work out,” executive producer Bob Singer admits. “In a way, characters dictate to you just how far they can go. We follow the characters, and after awhile, even though we created them, they take us down a road and we’re not exactly sure where they’re going. It seems to be better to just follow them; it gives the storylines more of a surprise when you use that style, rather than lock yourself into a specific timeframe for how long they’ll be on the show.

Knight, Nicholas. Supernatural: The Official Companion Season 4. Titan Books, 2010: 11. (via justanotheridijiton)

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filleretive

7x22, 10x03, 10x10

BEST RE-USE OF FURNITURE EVER.

I would assume that Wanek just re-used it because and it would cost money to make or buy a new ornate chair. Then again, this is Supernatural, where very few things are ever random, and I honestly think that there’s a reason they pulled it out of storage.

In 7x22, the Alpha has been lied to by Dick Roman, who assures him that they can share the supply of humans once the Leviathan take control. Of course, Sucrocorp is poisoning the vampires’ food supply, and the Alpha is thus losing control over his thousands of years-long “reign” on Earth as the supreme monster. Meanwhile, Crowley in 10x03 and 10x10 is faced with the question whether to trust his henchmen and Rowena, and his hold on his own kingdom is slipping. This chair seems to signal treachery! treason! perfidy! etc., specifically vis-a-vis royalty (the purple fabric), and that the chair’s owner is losing control of one’s kingdom.

Here’s another cap of the rest of the room in 7x22 where the chair first appears, in case anyone’s interested in trying to further parse a parallel between the two scenes. (The painting of Michael slaying “the dragon”/Lucifer, which itself is reused from 4x23, is across from the chair, interestingly enough.)

P.S. I fucking love that chair, by the way. 

P.P.S. Whatever happened to the Alpha, anyway? We never see him die. Adding that one to the long list of loose ends on this show.

tldr: Carver hit the reset button because season 7 painted them into a corner.

"When leaving that storyline, the idea was that they were leaderless but still around us," notes executive producer Bob Singer, "so if somebody pitches a Leviathan story that sounds good, we have that option available to us."  [The Essential SPN]

“It was sort of like an ex-girlfriend; every now and then I’d check in,” Carver tells TVLine of the years he missed while working on Being Human.

Although Carver says he was “really, really impressed with the job [executive producers] Sera [Gamble] and Bob [Singer] did over the last two seasons,” he did notice something during his marathon viewing that he felt could be improved upon. “The one thing that struck me [while] watching Season 7 was I felt like the show got a little bit buried under its mythology,” he says of the year that found Dick Roman trying to start a Leviathan takeover of the human population. “It became a little hard to tell exactly what was going on at times. The longtime fans all deserve intricate plot, but it felt a little burdensome.”

Carver says that he hopes to grip viewers by starting Season 8 with something familiar “like a flashback that lifelong fans or early fans will hopefully appreciate the magnitude of, but new fans can also grasp onto.”

“Resetting our mythology was one idea that I tried to bring into [the show],” he adds.

(more end of season 7/pre-season 8 bits below the cut)

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reblogged
"For ‘Sin City’ I’d thrown out the idea of doing something based on the movie Enemy Mine, where an earthling and an alien are trapped together,” reveals writer Jeremy Carver. “And [executive producer] Bob Singer was like, ‘Oh, that’s based on Hell in the Pacific,' an older movie about a Japanese and an American soldier trapped on an island during World War Two. At first they try to kill each other and then they have to start a begrudging friendship. So that turned into, 'What would happen if Dean and a demon were trapped in a cave?” “That was intimidating for my first script, because I realized that meant that for the second half of the script they’re going to be trapped in a room together with little action and very heavy mythology about demons. I could not have written that, not successfully, because it was too much of an unknown chunk of mythology.” Singer agreed that “the conversation between Dean and the demon was a little too much for a brand-new writer to take on, so we decided I’d write it with Jeremy. Basically he did the first part and I did the second part, and that’s all very much in my wheelhouse. This genre is not something I’m totally comfortable with writing. The stuff that Eric [Kripke] writes, I can’t, so most of the writing I do on the show is character stuff and internal workings of scenes.” “Everybody likes to ask, ‘What is your favorite scene in Supernatural? I love the scene in ‘Faith’, where at the end of the show Dean says to the girl, ‘I don’t pray, but I’ll pray for you,’” reveals Singer, “whereas Eric’s favorite moment was when the guy’s sticking his hand down the garbage disposal. So you put the things we cherish together and you come up with a pretty complete show.”

Knight, Nicholas. Supernatural: The Official Companion Season 3. Titan Books, 2009: 35-36. (via justanotheridijiton)

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Anonymous asked:

I read your post about Carver and Being Human. I think it's very clear that Carver writes Dean and Castiel with romantic overtones in mind. The problem is: Carver is not the only one in charge. Singer, Glass and some others have the exact opposite mindframe; they don't write Dean and Castiel that way. Also, recently I get the impression that Jensen Ackles does not like Dean and Cas written as a romantic trope; he would much rather emphasize Dean's unusual and intense bond with Sam.

Thanks very much for reading, anon, and for responding. I like a respectful debate :) Sorry it took me a little while to respond. It’s been a busy couple of days, and your comment ended up sending me on a bit of a research kick. I’ve been reading Robert Singer and Jensen Ackles interviews all evening. (What? Obsessive? Me?)

My short answer is that I have to disagree.

(Yes, even about Singer.)

The rest is going under a Read More, because it got… long.

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