something bordering on weird

10x04: Paper Moon (first airing 28 October 2014) [x] [x] [x] [x] [x] [x] [x] [x] [x] [x]

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OH CHUCK NO

[tweet]

What exactly was he wanting to tell??

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Tyrone Power: matinee idol, most interesting man in the world, and queer as fuck.

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In which Adam Glass gets sassy because Singer’s not the boss of him anymore.

So sad to see Adam Glass go. I really enjoyed his writing. As Time Goes By, Bad Boys, and About a Boy will always be among my list of favorite episodes.

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At the panel and there’s been about 2 John Winchester parenting questions. JDM doesn’t seem very pleased with how neglectful John has been portrayed without him there. He believes John loved the kids and died for them (JDM seems to equivocate this to a “good job” parenting) . He’d love to be back and have more emotional scenes.

So glad people are asking the questions though!

I’d heard rumours that JDM held this opinion/understanding/interpretation of John’s parenting, and I figured it made sense. During S01-3, from what I’ve heard anyways, the accepted interpretation of John was NOT as neglectful/abusive, but as a loving father who was merely doing what was necessary to keep his kids safe from a supernatural threat. And JDM, of course, is very firmly stuck in the S01-2 understanding/mindset, because he hasn’t been involved in the show at all since. Ergo, it seems pretty NATURAL to me that he would have this opinion of John’s parenting.

But it’s also kinda FASCINATING to hear of his outlook on John, because it’s, like, a really outdated opinion/understanding now (could you even say ‘out of fashion’ - can literary analysis go in and out of fashion?)… 

Although having said that, I do still see the argument sometimes even now that the ‘John as abusive parent’ reading is a RETCON that was added to the show AFTER S03. Which is basically what JDM is saying, I think? So it’s not like it’s only JDM who sees things that way… And I do often wonder if people who have been in the fandom since S01 feel conflicted over what to think about John…

…hell, even I, who didn’t join the show until the S03-4 hiatus, didn’t initially see the abuse in John’s behaviour (and I still hold to the interpretation that he WASN’T physically abusive… eh, not in the way most people argue anyways, with John getting mad at Dean, perhaps while drunk, and hitting him… I can see him maybe slapping Dean during a hunt if Dean is freezing at a crucial point, like Dean did with Ben). So to have gone 3 solid years understanding John a certain way, and then, from your perspective, to SUDDENLY be told the behaviour you’d been sympathetic about (maybe even respecting in many ways) was abuse… that’s not gonna be an easy thing to accept. It took ME long enough, and I wasn’t esp. attached to my initial understanding of John in the first place.

There’s also the fact that attitudes towards parenting and what constitutes as abuse ARE DIFFERENT for many of JDM’s generation, perhaps? So his upbringing may be likely to make him less inclined to see the abusive elements of John’s behaviour. As we also saw in Adam Glass’ twitter discussion of John a while back.

“Something Wicked” shows the abuse pretty clearly, I think, at least to anyone who is familiar with how abuse (esp. parent-child abuse) works. And JDM was actually on-set for that. Plus, he actually played out the emotionally abusive ‘attack the older child’s self-esteem because the younger child is pissing you off’ BS in “Dead Man’s Blood”, too, & the ‘I ask you for forgiveness so you aren’t allowed to hate me while piling ever more shit on your head’ BS of 2x01 as well.

I think the issue here is that JDM maybe doesn’t understand that breaking your children’s spirit, manipulating them to be tools, and controlling them to the point of not allowing them to exist without your permission is abuse. IDK, a lot of people in the real world also explain away emotional abuse as ‘not real’ abuse because hurt only counts if you hit your kid yourself, and not if you just make them hate themselves enough to do the violence for you.

Or with Adam Glass — he recoiled from the word abuse, but then when someone broke down the meaning and asked him if John damaged his children, he readily agreed with that. Which tracks with his writing — he very clearly does write John as abusive (in fact, he probably writes more specific instances calling back to the abuse than anyone else does, these days), but shies away from using the word. JDM might be willing to agree that John (even in S1-3) ‘damaged’ his kids, while still shying away from the word ‘abuse’.

It’s like the brothers’ toxic relationship — the fact that Jared P. doesn’t see it as toxic is not going to magically bring Kevin back to life.

Oh--! So that's what that tweet was about :D Because of course the writers would have their own ideas about 'stereotypical Dean' traits, but they wanted to know which ones were the most ingrained in the minds of fans, so they could make sure they properly shook up our perceptions, and...

...wow, I love Adam Glass right now. I'm so happy about this episode :D

All I can say is that if whatever he was thinking of for his third script is odder than his second….it’s going to be pretty odd.  (Also, of course Jared loved the de-aged Dean pitch. :P)

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Hunting wabbits … I wonder if they’re going to invoke cartoon physics (Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies) again.  Less seriously (but only a little), elizabethrobertajones, was it you who wished for an Easter bunny episode in season 11?  Maybe you’ll get one this season.  Or maybe not … I’m guessing the timing wouldn’t work.

Oh my god. If we actually get an Easter Bunny episode at any point of the year I’ll be too busy laughing myself sick to care that it didn’t line up with Easter. :P

It’s either going to be that or the bunny from Monty Python. That critter is a bit more suited to the show. It’d keep Blood Splatter Guy happy. :P

I truly love that we're at the point where using Monty Python to predict future Supernatural plots is an almost completely logical thing to do c:

YOU GUYS 

this writerteam…..

*SCREECHES*

I call Carver, Adam Glass, Robbie Thompson, Robert Berens, Jerry Wanek, and Misha Collins ‘Team Destiel’. (with Osric Chau as cheerleader w/ poms poms and all) Love them.

Don’t forget Serge Ladouceur!

WHAT

WHAT

WHATTTTTTTTT

Why don’t we talk about this more? How did this never cross my dash until this moment? This was almost a year ago! I never really understood why people construed Glass’ tweet about the characters “not being his to define” as anti-Destiel. It always read as being “pro-Destiel but my hands are tied by Kripke or Gamble, who ultimately control the characters” to me. And I guess this just confirms that little suspicion of mine.

(And don’t forget the actress who plays Claire! She has tweeted about wanting Dean and Cas to adopt Claire together.)

Almost two years ago, you mean :) How did that happen

Yeah, combined with his tweet that only the showrunner and creator can answer questions about Destiel, that's my impression as well.

Adam Glass on the return of Kate via TVLine (via persephoneshadow)