Radical Empress Of Amazon Lily

I'm sorry if this isn't articulated well and is a little rambly, I'm autistic, please take my words with a grain of salt. as a former member of that "whump community" (who's still into that kind of media) I know most of them are tifs, tho I was in it more when most of the popular writers on tumblr were still girls. It's also primarily autistic people from my experience.

you're definitely 100% right that they're not identifying as real men, I'm detrans and i don't even conflate the 2 in my mind which i think is a thing most RFs don't get about yaoi and this kind of thing, i didn't want to be a real guy, fictional men r like their own species lol. they're everything real men could never be. it might be hard to understand if you're less chronically online but I'm sure though not consciously, fictional men aren't even really related to real men in most of these people's minds.

With whump stuff I was always more uncomfortable or uninterested when it was a woman, maybe because women in media being hurt and weak is the norm (and it feels too real seeing a woman getting hurt since there's a closer connection), and it happening to men is an intriguing reversal. More male attracted women (im bi) are into more sensitive guys which sadly mostly exist in media, so it's just escapism.

I think that's also why they identify as trans males, they want to become closer to the fictional ideal of a male who can be soft and sensitive, or possibly being autistic and having trouble separating your special interests and escapist fantasies from every facet of your life.

(For context, this was sent in response to this post)

I think you’re onto something here. Brutality against female people is so common that we’re completely desensitized to it, and consequently, female characters being brutalized doesn’t emotionally move us. Either that, or brutality against female characters is highly sexualized, and further dehumanizes them. 

On the other hand, brutality against a male character is unexpected and unusual. Therefore, we are emotionally moved by it and able to recognize it for the tragedy it is. Indeed, this might explain why the “whump community” almost exclusively romanticizes the torture and anguish of male characters, and why so many of its members identify as trans guys. 

Furthermore, have you noticed that most of the tropes this community romanticizes are things that, at least in real life, female people are primarily the victims of? For example: rape, kidnapping, stalking, being drugged, being sold. It almost feels like an attempt to vicariously garner empathy for female suffering, without the element of being another cliché female victim. I feel like they impose female suffering onto male characters because they know the audience actually empathizes for males and views them as full human beings. 

In the end, I think it all comes down to female people’s desire to be fully humanized and to escape gendered stereotyping. For example, you stated that many trans-identified females “want to become closer to the fictional ideal of a male who can be soft and sensitive.” But why is a soft, sensitive male character so much more charming to them than a soft, sensitive female character? 

Because in their eyes, softness and sensitivity in a male character is seen as authentic; it’s seen as a consequence of his unique personality. But softness and sensitivity in a female character is seen as expected, as stereotypical—it’s seen only a consequence of her gender. This is also why characters who are fathers are adored, while characters who are mothers are overlooked or scrutinized. Because a male character taking care of children is kindhearted, nurturing, selfless, compassionate. But a female character taking care of children is just doing her job.

Basically, I think many trans-identified females would like their softness and sensitivity to be viewed as authentically as we view softness and sensitivity in males. I think many trans-identified females crave for their characteristics to be viewed as consequences of their unique personalities, rather than consequences of their gender. They crave to be seen as human first and female second—not the other way around. 

the cambrian explosion was mid

This is the first time an anon has actually gotten under my skin. How... how COULD you?

In response to your post about Dylan Mulvaney’s “days of girlhood” song— how is Dylan’s song different than other songs that mention stereotypical womanhood? I’m talking about songs like Shania Twain’s “Man! I feel like a woman” or Katy Perry’s “California Girls.” would you say those songs are also harmful and misogynistic?

Days of Girlhood: Being a woman is retail therapy, getting prescriptions, texting men, and doing the walk of shame. (Also, the song is about ‘girlhood’ not ‘womanhood’, which just makes it creepy to be talking about the walk of shame.)

Man! I feel like a woman: I want to be free and have fun and do whatever I want to! (Things women don’t typically get to do because of misogyny.)

Californian Gurls: This song is also misogynistic and I won’t be defending it. It’s literally just ‘women from California are so hot so you should come here’ along with a lot of sexual innuendos. Someone else pointed out that it was actually written by a bunch of men including a rapist.