And May The Force 

✨🌙   𝐀𝐑𝐓 𝐋𝐎𝐆 ->  @404ama

Debunking the "The Jedi Are Evil" Theory Made by The Film Theorists PT 2

Point 2 - That Luke was Right in the Sequels

In the Sequels, Luke says this:

And, after bringing this quote up, Matthew says this:

Now, first of all, what Luke is saying here cannot be trusted as "fact" or anything to go off of, mainly because of two reasons.

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1. He's trying to convince Rey not to be a Jedi or, at the very least, to not make him train her (which is pretty much the same thing), and at this point in time he pretty clearly hates himself and blames himself for the state of the galaxy. He's been stewing in his rocky hideaway for who knows how long, with nothing but the ocean and his own self-loathing to keep him company.

He's saying this here so that Rey will give up and not make him train her, because he's scared of making the same mistakes he did with Kylo Ren and fucking up the galaxy even more (we see a similar thing with Obi-Wan in the Kenobi show, where he refuses to save Leia at first because he's scared of not being able to save her--like he wasn't able to "save" Anakin).

And the traits, the "legacy," he's assigning the Jedi...isn't actually the legacy of the Jedi. It's him assigning what he believes to be his own legacy to the Jedi as a whole, because it's easier for him to deal with his own failure that way.

and 2. Luke is framed as being wrong for saying this. None of the other characters agree with him, eventually he does end up training Rey, and eventually he lets go of his pain and fair and grief and "becomes a Jedi again" and faces his "legacy of failure"--Kylo Ren.

It's obvious that the movies are clearly making him out to be wrong when he says those things, you don't need to have a neon sign posted above his head that says "WRONG" in order to see it. So taking his words at face-value is just trying to take a bad-faith reading of the Jedi--rather than the "objective scrutiny" that Matthew is purportedly putting the Jedi up to in this theory.

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I would also like to argue that Luke's only real knowledge of the Prequel Era Jedi and their actions/beliefs/traditions/etc. is...lacking, to say the least.

The Empire literally destroyed and desecrated every Jedi Temple that they could find, they wiped out all the information they could about the Jedi, and then spread anti-Jedi propaganda through the galaxy for years. Not to mention that, by this point, pretty much every Prequel Era Jedi is dead.

There's no one around to really tell Luke about the Jedi's actions or culture and what little information he might've been able to dig up probably wouldn't have amounted to much. So, when Luke says this, it can only really be taken as a commentary on the Post-Prequel Era Jedi, because he doesn't know enough about the Prequel Era Jedi to make any criticisms.

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Matthew then says:

This example is pretty easy to debunk, because Matthew leaves out the context.

Obi-Wan has to do this.

Because let's look at what would probably happen if he didn't:

1. He and Luke would be arrested and turned in to the Empire, probably Vader, and Vader would immediately recognize Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan would get murdered.

2. Vader would realize Luke was his son and probably try to indoctrinate him into an Imperial way of thinking, and Palpatine/Vader would probably have Luke "trained" (read: tortured) into becoming an Inquisitor.

and 3. The droids would probably either be memory wiped or destroyed, therefore destroying the plans for the Death Star that the Rebellion needed to destroy it--and the Death Star wouldn't be able to be destroyed, more planets and people would probably be killed.

Aside from the thing with the Death Star plans, Obi-Wan probably knows that that's what's gonna happen--and, if the Empire is looking for the droids, then it's pretty obvious that the droids are important to the Rebellion. So it wouldn't be a stretch to say that Obi-Wan probably understands that the Rebellion would be hurt by their loss.

Not to mention that stormtroopers aren't "innocent victims."

They actively sign up to work for the Empire and take part in the oppression of countless peoples and worlds. And It's not like Obi-Wan pulled aside a random stormtrooper just so he could mind-fuck him, they were approached by the troopers first and he reacted defensively. He didn't even make them do anything bad, he just told them "these aren't the droids you're looking for" and had them go on their way.

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Matthew's quote, continued:

Once again, this is pretty easy to debunk because, again, Matthew leaves out the context.

The Separatists literally kidnapped the Chancellor of the Republic and the Jedi had to rescue him. They had to steal the ship to escape or be captured, and likely executed, by the Separatists--therefore allowing the Separatists (who are literally enslaving and oppressing countless other systems and run by a fucking fascist dictator) to win the war and take over the rest of the galaxy.

Once again, the Jedi were acting defensively.

And I feel like, all things considered, the Jedi stealing that Separatist ship, to escape from a situation the Separatists caused, in order to keep the galaxy from falling into the hands of an oppressive dictatorship and attempt to stay alive...is a pretty damn reasonable decision, don't you think?

And, just for added context, the ship was literally falling apart when they crashed it. They didn't crash it on purpose, it was an emergency landing. If you're gonna say the Jedi are bad for "crashing" the ship, you may as well get mad at every pilot who ever initiated an emergency landing because it's literally the same thing--and if we're putting the Jedi up to "objective scrutiny" then there shouldn't be any double standards.

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Matthew's quote, continued:

Here the Jedi weren't lying, like...at all.

No one was asking them about their ability to use the Force, so they couldn't be lying. They were withholding information, information that the Senate--as non-Jedi--had no right to know about unless it would actively affect the Republic. Which, again, at this point in time it wouldn't.

But, fine, let's just pretend that the Jedi were lying...

...they were lying for good reason.

Yoda is right here. Even if we ignore the fact that Yoda is a stand-in for GL and what he says is quite literally the canon truth (since he's the creator), the Senate is already pretty at odds with the Jedi, which we see later in AotC when Palpatine and the Senate pretty much strong-arm the Jedi into accepting the role of Generals in the war, despite being told point blank by Mace Windu that they're peace keepers and not soldiers. Do you really think the Senate (read: Palpatine) wouldn't have used this information against the Jedi?

And, are you completely ignoring the fact that Mace is literally saying that they should tell the Senate and Yoda is disagreeing with him?

Obviously Yoda's take on what they should or shouldn't tell the Senate isn't something that the entire Order believes--it's just his opinion on what they should do.

You can't say that "the Jedi are liars" and then play a clip that literally debunks that by having two Jedi disagreeing with each other about whether or not to tell the truth.

we have good and bad jedi.

fans can bicker all the live long day about who their favorite jedi general is, but what about the clones? the troopers of the 501st knew undoubtedly that general skywalker valued them, as someone born into slavery, born into a life where his value was determined by what he could do, anakin knows the importance of letting his troops know they are valued.

“still showing off, general?”

“you know me, echo.”

the 212th revered obi-wan for his just leadership, levelheaded thinking, and his skills on the battlefield. his friendship with commander cody is a testament to his respect for the gar. obi-wan is a kind person, not overly so, as he keeps his emotions fairly in check, being a more by the books general than his former padawan, but he is caring, and he cares dearly for the 212th, and it reflects in the 212th’s loyalty and respect for their general.

“you didn't miss much. last time, i was chained to a pole and attacked by several humongous monsters."

"that sounds entertaining."

"it was. for the geonosians.”

yoda, wise as he was, wasn’t particularly inclined to emotional outbursts, but a kind word, yes. yoda more than any jedi could appreciate the value of individuality among the clones. the 41st respected the jedi master and general, for his was wise beyond his many many years of age.

“not much to look at here, sir. we all share the same face.”

“deceive you, eyes can. in the force, very different, each one of you are.”

oh, but the general of the 104th, he was no general at all. jedi master plo koon hardly saw the clones as troopers, and certainly not as numbers. clones who were assigned to the 104th battalion knew that they would be fighting alongside someone who viewed each of them as a human being, not just another number, not something expendable. they weren’t replaceable as droids were, nor so mechanical and unfeeling. these were boys, boys aged to fight in a war they couldn’t possibly understand. these were fatherless sons, and in his infinite paternal wisdom, general plo was family. general plo who led his wolfpack, who decorated their ships, painted them, words streaked in aurebesh “plo’s bros.” these were his sons.

“we’re meant to be expendable.”

“not to me.”

i’m sorry i have so many feelings about the father of the 104th.

@forcearama