Tree Crown without a Ruler
[14/05/23]
Well now I'm interested in how far in the Angst Zone your interpretation of Kirby is. How's he supposed to grasp with no fingers... ;_;
It's okay, he's got velcro nubs he just has to touch someone and it makes that little KACHIK sound and then he could pull people out of danger!
As for Kirby and how far in the angst zone they are, I take a lot of cues from Forgotten Land. That is to say, yes, Kirby can absolutely be sad. But those kinds of emotions don't tend to stick with Kirby if that makes sense? When something happy happens, Kirby isn't laden with lingering regret about the sad thing from before.
You know that "brain wakes up in the middle of the night" meme? Basically, to me, Kirby is immune to that. Those doubts and persistent fears that he did wrong or made a mistake? He has none. He just *knows what to do* and does it.
(Now MARX on the other hand... :eyes Marx Soul as an incarnation of Marx's persistent thoughts:)
I've said similar before but, to me, Kirby is childlike in body but almost unicorn-like (Peter Beagle vers.) in spirit. Something eternal. Simultaneously Human and Nature. Earth and Sky. A warm hug from the cosmos. Kirby is malleable. Transformable. Kirby will absorb the emotions around him, yes, but they will not take him over. He can keep or shed them like a copy ability.
All that said... I do think that True Arena Magolor would come the closest to doing actual mental damage to Kirby. With Dark Matter Swordsman, Kirby *saved the day* and literally brought light back to Popstar. With Haltmann and Sectonia, at least Susie and Taranza were saved. Marx came back. Elfilin came back. In the timeline where Magolor is fully consumed by the crown, Kirby is left with *nothing.* He can't even rest assured that Magolor is no longer suffering because *he is!!! He is still suffering...!?!* :flails:
I don't think this knowledge would ruin Kirby but I do think the damage from this would hurt Kirby more than any other. Of course, we don't know where this bad end timelilne goes either. Will this Magolor be saved eventually? Will he at least find freedom through death? (:y-yikes:) Will he appear again? So, Kirby has various ways he can recover his spirit and remember who HE is as well...
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As for Kirby the series, ohhh, I can angst that all day! Half the cast is on the verge of a breakdown at any given time! (Kidding!!) But serious talk, I also like a version of the Kirby-verse where everything is silly and fun times, and where the biggest problems is getting the Castle decorated properly for the next big Gourmet Race!
So with the revelation that Magolor isn't an Ancient, there are two equally funny interpretations of how he (probably) chose his name
Either he was so incompetent in his cultural appropriation that he pulled a “14-year-old anime fan on Twitter” and smashed two cool-sounding words together to make a name and didn't think of the meaning and connotations
Or
He knew what his name meant but picked it anyways cause it would be a funny inside joke that nobody would know to translate
Cause like, admittedly cool name aside, who names himself False Paradise?
I'll be honest. I don't want to talk about "Cultural Appropriation Magolor" because arguing against it is going to sound like (to massively paraphrase DuskTarot elsewhere talking about the same idea) "I might forgive world domination but I draw the line at cultural appropriation!" That or wearing blinders for your bias.
...Nor do I want to play into it (haha, bad kitty does crimes!) because that's just giving ammo to people who don't like Magolor or just want to enrage Mago-stans for luls and dilutes the fact that we got some amazing character development out of him this game.
I finally beat the Extra Mode (now I can finally stream the Truest Arena!) and I feel like that adds an interesting wrinkle to your theory. It mentions that Landia isn't even immune to the power within the crown, and that the hatred and power of past rulers are what twisted Magolor into Magolor Soul. What if it goes both ways? What if each ruler to succumb to the crown only makes it viler and viler, a painful cycle of endless, mutual corruption to be inflicted onto its next wearer? (And by the way, doesn't this seem familiar? Almost how another being tied to the Ancients, Void, was similarly tainted by ill intentions?)
That makes a lot of sense. Especially since we see the crown shift its form so many times/over many different hosts. Looking shiny and harmless and neutral when on Landia (it doesn't even have the "wings" in this form) while becoming more gray and skeletal in Mago Soul's hands. And then having the angelic wings when it takes the form of Mistelteinn - which is still a serious problem, but it feels almost like a more un-aligned form of destruction? Perhaps because the Malus Pumila didn't have a consciousness to begin with...?
Malus Plumina?
Ah, based on the BGM I’ve taken to using “Malus Pumila” for...
...and “Mistilteinn” for...
Because I like them better than “fruit fragment” and “tree crown”
What do you think about the Master Crown having a mind of its own?
This is an incredibly well-timed ask, Anon, because I have just seen this fairly convincing theory bandied about on twitter...
...You know Magolor's crying during the True Arena? (Yes. Dess is back to talking about the True Arena. It never stopped messing with me, btw. Especially when stuff like this comes out.) So, anyway...
Since a number of people have been hearing "help..." "...no..." and "...stop..." someone posed the question: Doesn't Magolor tell you in the pause description that he WANTS to end this? He also sounds resolved and even has room to be a little sassy toward the end.
Isn't it weird he should say one thing (bravely/confidently, even if it's a false confidence) in the pause screen while crying pitifully for mercy in the battle itself?
...And then came the horrible theory...
I haven't had the chance to do it yet, but do you know if the Japanese pause screens or text in RTTDDX contain any lore that, by chance, didn't appear in the english translations? I ask because I just remembered when Star Allies did the same thing with Void Termina's jp pause screen. (I wish I could relive that day, lol)
I'm sorry, Inifinite! I actually had this post ready to go a while ago but Tumblr kept borking on me and I eventually shelved it because I was so annoyed by it crashing mid-edit! Finally came back to it because this is a very good question!
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So, I only looked at the ones I had screenshots of, but I want to start out by saying the Pause Screen translation here is without question more accurate than previous games. This is FL levels of accuracy - the only differences being very minor word choices. As such, I've gone ahead and stuck with the EN descriptions here and "added back" (via parenthesis) anything that could be said to have been "left out" from the Japanese!
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okay waitwaitwait. so remember your jewel cut post? about how the master crown is a royal cut? ...what about the sunstones from triple deluxe. i'm pretty sure they're very familiar in stone cut just saying
Ooh! Of course! I should have looked at the Sun Stones too! They're definitely not the same cut as the Master Crown. It's a little hard to determine, but I'm kind of leaning toward a Rose/Double Rose Cut? Flower theming? Is that what you were thinking t........
...Wait... What the...? Why did I never...?
Random, cause I've thinking about this off and on...
...could the Void/Nil-esque object in the background of the True Arena fight (I’d get a screencap but I’m having a lazy day...) be one of the many countless Voids said to exist? Is it in the process of being formed by this battle?
[Screenshot shamelessly grabbed from aWiibo on Youtube]
Can the crown itself not give birth to new Dark Matter (Magolor’s body being only a shell, even as “he” is locked away inside it) but the negative energy being formed from this fight (...Magolor’s weeping is a good sign this fight is producing a LOT of negative energy) enough to, well, give birth to one? Maybe Magolor could be transformed into a servant Dark Matter, like Blade, and what is going on in the background is the creation of a new “Zero?”
We see the sphere go from just an amorphous black void to gaining the Nil-esque stripes after you reach (read: divert to) the phase of the battle where everything has reached the speculated "bad end." (And remember how Dark Matter/Zero’s arrival was always the last thing to happen in the “bad ends” of the Dark Matter trilogy?) There's also the fact that it's dark blue, looking more like, say, Gooey’s colors than Void Termina's white/pink colors. (Colors associated with Kirby. Also note that Void Termina was able to be reborn/reformed) I wonder if that’s the case...
I’ve been thinking, since a lot of fans have said “what’s the point of having the last thing you unlock in the game be a “bad ending”? Isn’t that just cruel? But I’ve been thinking lately, what if it’s not solely a bad ending to make Kirby feel sad and torment Magolor, but a new ending to forge the way forward into a new arc? A sliiiight pivot away from the Ancients and the preparation for a real deep dive into the story of Dark Matter, Zero, and Void?
hi. uh. i have recently heard that marx, in the original japanese translation, is implied to have just. always had his powers??????????? this is. so so strange to me. bc of. yknow. similarities to Things In RTDLDX. as well as void termina having similar wings ???????? like ????? it makes so much more sense that he wished to rule popstar so nova granted him the powers so he'd have the capabilities to overthrow anybody who stands in his way (except kirby of course) AND NOVA WAS MADE BY THE ANCIENTS !!! SO!! THE SIMILARITIES IN His POWERS MAKE SENSE!!
is this. unfortunately true? :') and.. if so.. where does it say this and how.. and.. why.. ough ough ough ouhg...
(sorry if you're busy, this is just on-par with Magolor's bombshell of "actually im not from halcandra lmfao" and COMPLETELY shattered everything i thought i knew and i dont know how to find anything about this that better explains it!!)
So, I'm probably the biggest "Marx got his powers from Nova" stan in the fandom (?) and I am more than happy to talk about this! (While noting that, even though I believe in it now, and have "evidence" for it, I accept that things change in Kirby. Until it does, ala "I'm not really from Halcandra," I remain staunchly Nova-Wings)
Anyway, since you said the original Japanese, I went ahead and compiled EVERY line of dialogue relating to Marx in Kirby Super Star / Super Star Ultra! All re-translated by yours truly!
Let's see what it says!
Hello Dess! Sorry to add more to your inbox, hehe.
There is a line that has always been my favorite in the original localization. From the 120 spheres dialogue in normal mode, Magolor says:
In fact, [the Lor Starcutter] can do almost anything, if the heart of its pilot is true.
In DX, it's slightly changed:
In fact, [the Lor Starcutter] can do almost anything, depending on the will of its pilot.
I think for the most part, they mean the same thing, but it's different enough to me though I can't really explain what xD Do you know if the wording is slightly different between OG and DX for the JP versions?
(I think a lot about the relationship between Magolor and the Lor Starcutter, so it's been one of my favorite lines. The change stuck out at me instantly xD)
Not at all! I'm happy to help answer a question of yours! That said...
This line's in a bit of an awkward place, as you can only get it before completing Nutty Noon. I'll try to take note of it on my next run through the game, but for now, I can do some speculating...
[Note: This was 8 pages long. I bought it the moment I could and wrote down/quickly summarized everything I could find that was of interest while reading through it. I didn’t even edit it or spellcheck it ^^ It’s not a full translation, there could be some bits I misinterpreted, and there’s some technical stuff about the development and staff that I left untouched, but this should be all the good stuff!]
Whoa, hold up! There's possibly voice clips from both Magolor AND the Lor?
The only thing I'm even VAGUELY aware of is Magolor CLEARLY screeching "KIRBY!!! Kirby!! Kirby! Kir... by..."
Sadly, I haven't gone back to that file since I found the first clip (been busy) but there's something going on there! I think we'll be finding out for sure in just a few days (1)
That said, I know I supposedly wrote out all my angst regarding Crowned Magolor in comic form but I just found this Nico Douga video where someone (several someones?) subtitled what they believe they can hear Magolor saying and UGH MY HEART?!?
Potentially heard phrases include: (Warning for distressing content...?)
As fun as The Angst(tm) is, I really hope the Dead People Gang aren't just, like. Trapped in Turbohell Kirbohell forever. For some reason, my thoughts instantly went to Void Termina - Since Void Termina is implied to be reincarnated as a good guy after their defeat as Void, I thought it would be interesting if they got a glimpse of everyone hanging out in the afterlife between the "blowing up" part and coming back as not-as-evil. Plus, now I've got a really funny mental image of that coming up in casual conversation Kirby/Meta/Dedede/some other protagonist and Kirby finding out and deciding "sounds like more potential friends! time to go to hell" to try and (somehow) save them
My own brain was putting a Charlie & the Chocolate Factory style spin on it. They CAN all come back, just...
Sectonia: ...once the Dream Stalk dies
Max: ...once his brain is finished defragging (...or see Seto Kaiba in the manga version of Yugioh)
Magolor: ...when someone succeeds in breaking the crown
Marx: ..."User 'Marx' can rejoin the game in XXXX hours"
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That said, your bit at the end about "Let's go to hell and rescue everyone!" is partially why I followed this story to its current, silly (?) conclusion! I know it's sounded / looked / been depressing, especially for poor, poor, poor Magolor, but I meant what I said in the tags about drawing this helping me get over some of my own True Arena-induced trauma......
(continued below)
<PS: To the Anon who asked about the Void beach pic? Your answer is here too! Sorry to make you go through all this to find it!!>
While I do think Joronia deserves a happy ending, I think "once the Dreamstalk dies" would be kinda tragic.
The Dreamstalk is like a divine plant, it's probably not gonna die of age or likely even disease. The only way it could probably die is for some random jerk or eldritch abomination to destroy it, and that might end up taking a while.
If Joronia gets revived by the death of the Dreamstalk, it might be far enough in the future that Taranza has passed on.
I'd want Taranza and Joronia to be happy together... they both deserve it...
Even if it was thematic more than practical, I suppose I wasn’t really giving everyone the fairest conditions, was I? ^^ (I almost added an additional dozen Xs onto Marx’s “banned from life for bad behavior” clock too.) We’re not here to reenact Orpheus and Eurydice.
Let’s change that to “When the Dream Stalk goes to seed” then! (Dess says, as if Dess has any control over these characters getting a happy ending/redeemed outside of fanworks…)
We still don’t know how long such mythical plant treats a “season” but that could cut down her time in superhell somewhat.
As fun as The Angst(tm) is, I really hope the Dead People Gang aren't just, like. Trapped in Turbohell Kirbohell forever. For some reason, my thoughts instantly went to Void Termina - Since Void Termina is implied to be reincarnated as a good guy after their defeat as Void, I thought it would be interesting if they got a glimpse of everyone hanging out in the afterlife between the "blowing up" part and coming back as not-as-evil. Plus, now I've got a really funny mental image of that coming up in casual conversation Kirby/Meta/Dedede/some other protagonist and Kirby finding out and deciding "sounds like more potential friends! time to go to hell" to try and (somehow) save them
My own brain was putting a Charlie & the Chocolate Factory style spin on it. They CAN all come back, just...
Sectonia: ...once the Dream Stalk goes to seed
Max: ...once his brain is finished defragging (...or see Seto Kaiba in the manga version of Yugioh)
Magolor: ...when someone succeeds in breaking the crown
Marx: ..."User 'Marx' can rejoin the game in 87,600 hours"
Links to the rest of the mini-series:
Part 1″A Beautiful Sunset” Part 2 “The Sun Never Sets” Part 3 “Screams of Joy” Part 4 “Visitors” Part 5 “A Perfect Circle”
Relevant: “Conditional” [You Are Here]
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That said, your bit at the end about "Let's go to hell and rescue everyone!" is partially why I followed this story to its current, silly (?) conclusion! I know it's sounded / looked / been depressing, especially for poor, poor, poor Magolor, but I meant what I said in the tags about drawing this helping me get over some of my own True Arena-induced trauma......
(continued below)
<PS: To the Anon who asked about the Void beach pic? Your answer is here too! Sorry to make you go through all this to find it!!>
...Ahem!
Oh god... A continuation...
I’m NOT coloring this one
It would destroy me.
You get sketches and that’s it.
CW: mind break, death ideation, no salvation
