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@deathlessathanasia / deathlessathanasia.tumblr.com

Greek mythology enthusiast with some interest in ancient Greek religion and an unfortunate love for pedantry and nitpicking.
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Guys, did you realize that if you combine the version found in Hesiod's Theogony where Zeus takes Leto as a consort and has children with her before he marries Hera who, on her part, is not mentioned as persecuting Leto in any way and the version found in sources like the Homeric Hymn to Apollo or Kallimachos' Hymn to Delos where Hera, already involved with Zeus and with grown children by him at the time, does persecute the pregnant Leto you end up with a version where Hera tries to punish Zeus's partner even though she wasn't even married to him at that point? Such a crazy bitch! What do you mean that's not the proper way to analyze something?

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Zeus: Apollo deserves imprisonment in Tartaros for what he has done.

Zeus internally: C'mon someone step in, I really don't want to do this.

Leto: Please go easy on him, he is your son and you know well he's the best you've got.

Zeus: Oh alright, I suppose a bit of servitude to a mortal will be a fitting punishment for killing the makers of the weapons that ensure my supremacy.

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Anonymous asked:

Why is it that in earlier sources (e.g. Homeric Hymn to Apollo) Hera's persecution of Leto is pretty unremarkable and no different from what she does to Alcmene but later authors (looking at you Callimachus and Hyginus in particular) make her responsible for every single bad thing that befalls Leto? No land accepts her? It's Hera's doing. Python attacks her? It's Hera's doing. Tityus assaults her? It's Hera's doing again.

I can't tell you why, but I can tell you that Leto's case is not unique. Consider Kallisto: in what appears to be the earliest account of the story (attributed to Hesiod) Hera seems to play no role whatsoever, only for subsequent sources to variously make her the cause for Kallisto's transformation into a bear, for Artemis shooting her and even for the constellation she becomes not being able to set into the sea. And as Sandra Boehringer points out, "Hera appears to play a secondary role,: she does not feature at all in several versions, and has little impact on events as such. In stories where she does appear, she performs an action that is accomplished by other agents in other versions, without introducing anything completely new; and she has no effect on the final outcome." I find it quite possible that Hera was a later addition to the myth.

Hell, even her connection with Semele's death, popular as it is, seems to have appeared for the first time in the fifth century, or at least no earlier source for it survives. Or what about Io's son Epaphos? All of a sudden, in Apollodoros' Library and Hyginus' Fabulae Hera apparently hates him and arranges for his kidnapping or death even though there is no trace of this idea before. Same goes for Aigina and her son, to whom Hera pays no attention before Ovid's Metamorphoses. And since I was posting about the Vatican Mythographers recently, the first one makes her responsible for Perseus being sent to kill Medusa, since she wants him destroyed.

Now as I always point out, a lot of ancient texts are lost and just because a particular variant only appears in, say, Apollodoros or Hyginus or Nonnos or even the Vatican Mythographers doesn't mean it can't be much older than that. Still, while Hera's wrath and revenge (including against Zeus's other women and especially children/Herakles) are motifs that appear even in the earliest works of Greek literature, I don't think anyone can dispute the fact that she becomes more and more a caricature of a jealous wife and wicked stepmother as time goes on. Maybe it made for juicier drama? Provided an easy antagonist? Misogyny? Whatever the case, I guess there's no surprise that modern writers carry on this tradition.

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Anonymous asked:

Which goddesses and women are called wife of Zeus?

Honestly in order to offer a comprehensive response to this I'd have to comb through basically all ancient Greek literature, so instead I'll just give you a small list off the top of my head, sorry!

To preface this, many of the sexual unions Zeus and other gods engage in can be referred to as gamos/gamoi, a term that is often translated as marriage but doesn't necessarily imply the formality of an official marital union (Apollo's rape of Creusa in Euripides' Ion is called gamos for instance), just as the verb gamēo can mean to marry or simply to have sex with. So I'm limiting this to women who I know for sure are called "wife of Zeus" sometimes rather than including all the ones he is said to have performed a gamos with.

The only one who bears this title consistently and frequently is Hera, but there are some others who are occasionally described as his wives in some sources: Leto (Homer, Iliad 21.498-9, Homer, Odyssey 11.580, Quintus Smyrnaeus, Posthomerica 11.21); Metis (Hesiod, Theogony 886); Themis (Pindar, fragment 30, Diodorus Siculus, Library of History 6.1.9 - not explicitly called wife here but he is said to have married her and I'm including it for the sake of thoroughness since she is called his wife elsewhere); Io (Aeschylus, Prometheus Bound 834); Demeter (Diodorus Siculus, Library of History 6.1.9 - again not actually called a wife, but she is one of 3 women he marries in this account, the other two being Hera and Themis who are explicitly called his wives elsewhere); Semele (Pausanias, Description of Greece 2.31.2); Europa (Moschos, Europa and the Bull 165 - the word used here is νύμφη, "bride").

Mentioning this separately because it is quite anomalous, but the earliest description of a formal wedding among the gods (including wedding preparations, gifts and even a marriage proposal) is provided by Pherecydes of Syros and takes place between Zas/Zeus and Chthonie/Ge. The myth also serves as an etiology for the anakalypteria, the unveiling of the bride.

Again, this is by no means a complete overview. Likely there are other women called wife of Zeus in ancient literature, and, except for Chthonie, Themis and Metis, I don't claim to have mentioned all the sources in which these women are called this; there could be others that don't come to mind right now.

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Does Zeus love Leto more than Hera

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How should I know? 😭 I don't even see how one would go about quantifying such a thing. Which version of Zeus are we talking about? Does he actually love either of them? How do we decide that? On what basis do we assume which one he prefers? What kind of love are we talking about?

Personally I would argue he doesn't, though he might very well find Leto a more agreeable person in general. In Hesiod's Theogony he chose to marry Hera even though Leto had already hgiven him the most splendid offspring, "lovely children above all the celestials.". In the short but representative list of women and goddesses desired by Zeus (Ixion's wife, Danae, the daughter of Phoinix, Semele, Alkmene, Demeter, Leto, Hera) that he himself provides in Iliad 14, Leto is quite high up, second only to Hera, but she is still second to her. And then there is the fact that Zeus did nothing to punish Hera for her mistreatment of Leto in any source, and usually he does either nothing or very little to prevent Leto's suffering at Hera's hands.

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Anonymous asked:

For a long time and as I learn about her more I think Leto was more to Zeus than just a mother of Apollo and Artemis. I'm probably crazy, but scattered throughout certain texts they allude to times when it is her who calms him down and can influence him in a good way. Is there anything to what I'm saying or am I just making stuff up?

I get what you mean; I can think of a few instances of that sort. According to a fragment attributed to Hesiod (listed as Fr. 91 here) and also mentioned in Pseudo-Apollodoros' Library 3.10.4, Zeus apparently intended to throw Apollo into Tartaros for killing the Kyklopes but Leto intervened on his behalf and he was made to serve a mortal instead. Then, according to Valerius Flaccus' Argonautica 4.60, Latona, Diana and Apollo convinced Jupiter to put an end to Prometheus' punishment. Also in one account Orion was placed among the stars by Zeus at the request of Artemis and Leto.

That said, I don't believe we can separate these interventions of Leto from her role as Artemis and Apollo's mother, both because giving birth to not one but two of the greatest gods in the pantheon is a big deal, but also because I can't think of a single interaction between Leto and Zeus that does not involve or concern, in one way or another, one or both of their children. She certainly has a high standing on Olympos (which is why I always side-eye those retellings in which she is exiled from among the gods and forbidden from interacting with her children and what not), as I've pointed out previously she is probably the one goddess who is most frequently called the wife of Zeus in ancient Greek literature after Hera (a very distant second though), and from what we get to see her relationship with Zeus is quite harmonious. The scene in Homeric Hymn 3 to Apollo where she disarms her son who had just terrified all the gods and puts his bow away while Zeus gladly welcomes him is very meaningful, I think, especially when you consider the rumors that circulated before Apollo's birth and the reason why Leto struggled so much to find a place willing to allow her to give birth: "They say that Apollon will be haughty and greatly lord it over the immortal gods and the mortal men of the barley-bearing earth." (Homeric Hymn to Apollo 66-9). So even though all the lands were too frightened to allow Apollo to be born, even though the gods themselves tremble and jump from their seats at his entrance on Olympos, even though there are rumors that he will be a less than pleasant character (who might even pose a danger to his father's rule?), here the father does not suppress his son and the mother does not encourage him to turn against his father.

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People will be like "In precisely one (1) source Zeus had Apollo and Artemis before he married Hera, which means that she persecuted Leto for no reason at all (even though that one source actually says nothing about any persecution of Leto and the accounts that do mention Hera's anger also make it clear that she was already involved with Zeus during Leto's pregnancy and even had grown children with him)" and expect to be taken seriously, smh. It's not like Hera actually ignores 90% of the women Zeus has children with during their marriage; no, she is a big meanie that would punish someone for sleeping with her brother before he even became her husband.

I go with the version where Leto had Apollo and Artemis before Zeus married Hera, and that Hera only disliked Leto and her children bc the kids were born a while before her wedding day and all of Olympus loved the twins over how perfect and beautiful they were and that made her jealous and scared bc everyone will expect her to bear children that are even better. Not the kind of vibes you’d want before getting married.

She doesn’t necessarily hate them (she had a salad with Apollo once) but she avoids interacting with them and especially Leto.

In my (hypothetical) retelling I go with the version in which Zeus sleeps with Leto after marrying Hera and she reacts quite badly to it. I see Hera as very competitive and it is a constant pain for her that others surpass her in the quality of their children, which is why she leaves most of Zeus's kids alone and only acts against those she has reason to believe will be exceptional in some way. Hera and Leto really can't stand each other (as shown in Lucian's Dialogues of the Gods for instance), but I imagine they never really got along that well even before that incident because they are just too incompatible personality ways.

Even though Apollo was the child about whom Hera was really upset during Leto's pregnancy while she didn't pay much mind to his sister, she gets along better with him than with Artemis because he is more willing to play nice and act respectful for the sake of mantaining harmony. Artemis on the other hand is more headstrong and impulsive, cares little for propriety and doesn't hesitate to speak her mind. She can cooperate with Artemis as well but really doesn't like her and the feeling is mutual.

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People will be like "In precisely one (1) source Zeus had Apollo and Artemis before he married Hera, which means that she persecuted Leto for no reason at all (even though that one source actually says nothing about any persecution of Leto and the accounts that do mention Hera's anger also make it clear that she was already involved with Zeus during Leto's pregnancy and even had grown children with him)" and expect to be taken seriously, smh. It's not like Hera actually ignores 90% of the women Zeus has children with during their marriage; no, she is a big meanie that would punish someone for sleeping with her brother before he even became her husband.

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According to Sappho, „Before they were mothers Leto and Niobe had been the most devoted of friends” and I think this has to be one of the most intriguing concepts ever. What happened between them? Why did things go so wrong? How might they have gotten from closest of friends to Niobe disparaging Leto and her twins and Leto asking for the murder of Niobe's children?

I've talked about this particular bit in Discord with my other friends lol. Maybe Niobe felt left out and jealous when Leto had children and they became such renowned deities. Because they were friends, she considered herself equal to Leto and expected everyone to do the same, which clearly wasn't going to happen because her and her children were mortals (with no remarkable feats yet).

Also regarding the tags: Hera and Leto's complicated relationship is not entirely unattested to, even if though it comes from a relatively late source:

"This symbolical style is more common in the tales and legends. As for instance, they relate that Hera, being brought up in Euboea. was stolen away while yet a virgin by Zeus, and was carried across and hidden in this region, where Cithaeron afforded them a shady recess, nature's own bridal-chamber. And when Macris — she was Hera's nurse — came to seek her, and wished to make a search, Cithaeron would not let her pry about, or approach the spot, on pretence that Zeus was there resting and passing the time in company with Leto. And as Macris went away, Hera thus escaped discovery on that occasion, and afterwards calling to mind her debt of gratitude to Leto she adopted her as partner in a common altar and common temple, so that sacrifices are first offered to Leto Μυχία, that is, 'of the inner shrine'; but some call her Νυχία, 'goddess of night.' In each of the names, however, there is the signification of secrecy and escape."
- Eusebius (quoting Plutarch), Preparation of the Gospels

Leto was not directly involved in the situation but Hera did honour her enough to share an altar of hers with Leto. So to get betrayed by her and Zeus would have been such a stab in the chest for her.

That's probably the most likely interpretation for Leto and Niobe: a mortal whose proximity to the gods makes him or her become arrogant and forget their station. Niobe's own father was a similar case.

As for Hera and Leto, I already talked about that in the replies of this post, but to have it here as well: Given that Kithairon uses Leto as a cover for Hera and Zeus by saying that she is the one he is spending time with instead of Hera, it seems more reasonable to assume that people already knew of Zeus and Leto having a relationship. In the most common account he does sleep with Leto when he is already married to Hera, but in Hesiod's Theogony at least Leto is listed before Hera as a consort of Zeus so there is precedent for a different order of events. This interpretation seems all the stronger when considering that Plutarch in the same account also adds: „Some say that Hera had secret intercourse there with Zeus, and, being undiscovered, was thus herself denominated Leto of the night: but when her marriage became openly known, and their intercourse first here in the neighbourhood of Citliaeron and of Plataea had been revealed, she was called Hera Teleia and Gamelios, goddess of the perfect life, and of marriage.”

So if Hera herself is called Leto of the night when she is sleeping with Zeus in secret and only becomes known as Hera Teleia once the marriage becomes public, it makes sense to assume that Zeus had a thing with Leto before Hera became his wife. If there is any betrayal here, then Hera is not the one who suffers it; in fact we might even have an inversion of the usual scenario, where instead of Hera being the official partner who is betrayed by Zeus with Leto, Leto is the publicly acknowledged consort and Hera the mistress who eventually replaces her as official partner. Since Leto does not appear in propria persona in this story, we can only guess how she felt about having been used as a cover for Zeus' relationship with his secret lover and future wife.

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According to Sappho, „Before they were mothers Leto and Niobe had been the most devoted of friends” and I think this has to be one of the most intriguing concepts ever. What happened between them? Why did things go so wrong? How might they have gotten from closest of friends to Niobe disparaging Leto and her twins and Leto asking for the murder of Niobe's children?

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„The story used to explain the epithet of Apollo Lykegenes is that Leto came to Delos in the form of a wolf (lykos) to escape Hera, but an aition for Lycia also connects her with wolves. In this story, which perhaps makes more explicit certain aspects of the other, she wishes, still in exile, to wash her new-born babies, but is turned away from the water by some cowherds; she is received by wolves and guided to the streams of Xanthus. These stories are explicit aitia, and up to a point it would be true to say Leto becomes a wolf because she is mother of Apollo Lykegenes. However, in so far as we have not merely an explanation but also a story, the myth requires a different approach. In fact, It shares some of the themes of the stories we have been considering. Leto is different from the other heroines in that her transformation is a self-willed temporary disguise, but it is still connected with a journey into the wilds and with pregnancy. The wolf is clearly not a sexually inviting animal. Leto is closer to Callisto than to Io in this respect, and also in the way that she bears her children in homeless exile. The theme of pollution emerges most strongly in the Lycia aition, where being received by wolves is connected with her unclean state after giving birth and where, like Callisto, she is not allowed to share the communal water; but her impurity is perhaps also behind the refusal, in the story, of any land except the floating island of Delos to allow her to bring forth her child.

In the ancient world the wolf was not merely, like the lion or bear, a symbol of animal savagery, but more particularly a symbol of the outcast, fugitive, or outsider. In early Hittite laws we find: 'Thou art become a wolf' (as a penalty for murder). In Greece we have the Arcadian wolf-men who are exiled after a cannibal feast; here too the wolf has an almost metaphorical sense. Very close to the Leto story is that of Athamas who, banished after killing his sons, is told to found a new city in a place where he is entertained by wolves. Danaos is identified with a wolf, as an outsider, in an omen to the people of Argos. (This is an aition for the worship of Apollo Lykeios, but it shows that such an aition might be expected to play upon the general character of the wolf.) In our story the connection of the wolf with the social outcast fits in with the theme of the exile and isolation of Leto, with Apollo's links with Delos, a barren and remote island, and with the curiously ambiguous mythological conception of Apollo himself: on the one hand he is Zeus' right-hand man, the guardian of Olympic order, while on the other he goes through a series of punishments and exiles.”

- Metamorphosis in Greek Myths by Paul M. C. Forbes Irving

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