He's Flat

OK here’s the sigma post. something i see people throw around a lot is the idea that fyodor / the decay of angels was responsible for bringing sigma into the world. it seems like a pretty popualr fanon / fan theory, and as fun as it is i believe that is… just not true, which i think is clearer if you think about what fyodor says regarding him

fyodor is a very particular guy. he words things very particularly. when he talks about things the doa have used the page for, he says “the page” (example here)

however, when he talks about sigma’s birth…

“sigma was written into the book” he says. and the visuals are very specific, too–when the page is talked about, the visuals are always that one page. take this example, when tachihara breaks from the page’s hold:

or this, during the sunday tragedy conclusion

it’s just the one page, every time. but with sigma, it was the whole book. so i think we can assume, yeah, he was written into the book proper, not just onto the page. the problem with that is, well, the decay of angels doesn’t have the book. they only have that one page, that’s why it’s guarded so heavily (being kept on fukuchi at all times). if the doa had the book they wouldn’t have to worry so much about the page being taken from them

so, uh. that brings some pretty big implications, and bigger questions. the decay of angels doesn’t have the book, but someone must have wrote sigma into it. which means there is someone out there we haven’t seen yet who has the book, or at least access to it, and they’re responsible for sigma’s birth. so. who is it, where are they, and why was sigma created, if it wasn’t by the doa to help with their plan? what’s their goal?

I mean I did sort of wonder why Sigma would have been human trafficked if the DoA wrote him into the book for their own purposes. Like wouldn't they know where he...I don't know, spawned? Or would he have appeared in front of whoever wrote him?

There's the argument of "they wanted Sigma to be desperate to have a place to belong, to better follow the DoA's orders," but they could always alter his personality using the book.

And another thing, the hand writing the page. They are wearing gloves, it could be anyone.

However, Fyodor knows the origins of Sigma's birth, so that arises other questions: if Fyodor did not write Sigma, how did he know where he came from? And is Fyodor manipulating them as well, or in vice-versa?

Bro you're telling me Aya could fend off a vampire and Chuuya couldn't

@autistic-sigma-real Don't hide in the tags

I never heard this theory. And you hurt me.

*spoilers for ch. 92 of bsd*

Personally, I do not think Jouno will join Fukuchi. Obviously, he likes to watch people in agony. However, if he wanted to watch hoards of innocent people suffer or kill a large number of the population he could've easily become a terrorist himself. But instead he chose to work for the government, for justice. Of course, one could argue that it was just his version of justifying his sadistic tendencies, but the idea still stands that if he was that cruel of a person then whether or not his actions were "justified" would not matter.

I don't know what Fukuchi's reaction would be to Jouno turning him down, though.

I, for one, think Jouno is sadistic and cruel in a way that spites others who are sadistic and cruel. The way he spoke in ch. 92 explained that (or at least I think it did) when he said that no matter how many people suffer by his hand, the world continued to praise him for it.

I mean, he could literally just kill some random person and declare that they were evil, and the world, glancing at the Hunting Dogs' credibility would turn a blind eye.

Being in the side of the just (or so he seems) gives him the perfect opportunity to seize, harm, torment, and hurt others without holding back, because the consequences almost seem like they're never there.

Which could also be why he almost empathizes with the agency—if they were criminals, in the real. Because in Yokohama, had they not been declared the Decay of Angels, no one would've suspected them too.

To add, I agree that he won't join Fukuchi, because being a sadist as a criminal is less pleasurable than being one that spites others who have to suffer for their crimes.

....or so I think lmao I'm sorry if this makes zero sense

I love discussions. I hope you guys don't mind me chiming in.

First, it would add so much character depth if Jouno declines Fukuchi offers!! I'm hoping that we then get some backstory of Jouno and more info on how such a sadistic person becomes someone working for justice.

But I want to ask how could he have become easily a terrorist himself? Because the power that he has now is thanks to the operations that the Hunting Dogs must go under in order to survive. We know nothing of his capability before he joined the HD. Thus, we can't say for sure that he could have become a terrorist but chose justice instead. Maybe he had no other choice, maybe he was longing for more power and maybe it's simply wanting to exert this power on the weak in disguise of justice. If you mean he could become a terrorist after joining the HD, it's quite hard because of the aforementioned operations. He can't afford betraying the HD and I think he is satisfied enough with his position where he can interrogate people and torture them in this way.

We also have the example of the Seventh Agency within the Government which is said to be the corrupt side of the government. Imo Jouno is another important example of someone that works on the justice's side but doesn't work for justice.

Plus, I don't think Jouno enjoys simply killing people. He likes to torture them psychologically, playing mind games. The thing with just declaring someone evil is that he would also need to convince the other HD that this person was evil. So I doubt that he could have simply done that.

But I totally agree with you @amodernpersephone that it is more "exciting" to torture people when you're on justice's side. But even when he joins Fukuchi, he would still have his position in the HD. He'd still be doing this under the cover of justice. It still be exciting for him I believe.

Well, another thing is, does Jouno even have the possibility to decline? I mean if he turns down the offer, he would most likely be overwhelmed by Fukuchi and turned into a vampire.

So either way, I believe Jouno will be used as Fyodor's next pawn. What do you guys think?

Ooh, yay! Discussion time! Point, I'm finding that Jouno declining Fukuchi and Jouno agreeing to Fukuchi both perfect portrayals of a character that leans to be a shade darker than typically morally grey.

I barely have anything to add, Q-san (@ckjbun) already said pretty much everything. But let's weigh possibilities, based on both discussions.

Route #1: Jouno agrees. What does he benefit from the DoA? He'd get a more lenient space to enjoy toying with other people. Less need to hold back. In my opinion, even as an HD, he wouldn't go too far into his game (or at least, someone would stop him, like what Tecchou did this chapter) because façades are façades, and too much cruelty can ruin credibility. It's a D-Day for absolute destruction. But this is playing on the thought that Jouno is a sadist for the sake of being a sadist.

But say he had reasons, say that he didn't just do all of this for an unusual sense of pleasure, say that he might have some sense of principles when choosing who and what to torture.

Would joining the DoA concur with those "principles"?

Route #2: He declines. And gets turned into a vampire, but we're gonna ignore that for now. It would give us a big question, the same spinning in a lot of heads right now if he did, why? The DoA seems perfect for him. He's already nearly empathized with the Agency when they were in the DoA, what of finding out his dearly beloved Commander Fukuchi, leads the true culprits? What of his thoughts when he sees the complicated plan they all created for the sake of eliminating the Agency? What of being tricked and deceived by Fukuchi? (yes that was reaching, ik).

Another thing is, the DoA want something. Or 2/4 of them do, at least. Jouno...Jouno so far, iirc, hasn't shown desire for anything other than other people's suffering. Would he just follow through with the DoA's plans if it means he'll get to enjoy himself? Would he find that much elaboration and effort for a new taste of other's pain boring?

I gave more questions than answers, didn't I? Sorry! Anyway, the chances of him accepting and declining are constantly varying, because looking into Jouno's character we know...

...almost absolutely nothing.

Decorated Defender of Justice™ is actually a horrible individual who delights in the cruelty he inflicts on others?

That could be a magazine headline, sure, not an accurate summary of character.

Opinions aside, the DoA are on a win streak and it wouldn't be shocking at all if Jouno adds to the mix.

But personally? I want him to decline. Joining the DoA is permanent black paint, at least for me. He's far more interesting as a dark and elusive person whose personality betrays him entirely, and being morally ambiguous is his best asset. Plus, him saying no (and hopefully surviving it) would give us a wonderful chance to see what skeletons he keeps in his closet more clearly.

That's my take on it, what's are yours?

also @dazaistabletop -san, i'm sorry for clogging up your post with *gestures at what i just typed*

So basically, it all depends on whether he's a sadist or a sadist with morals.

When I said Jouno could've easily become a terrorist before, it was meant more loosely. More like "if he just wanted others to suffer or to cause mayhem, he could've just been a criminal himself." How he would've become a criminal and what he would do, I don't know. But if hurting people was his sole goal, there were plenty of opportunities present just in normal everyday life without having to join the government. Gangs, organized crime, black market crap, you name it. Anybody could become a criminal if they like hurting people that much.

However, @ckjbun made a valid point. Jouno might not have been strong enough before whatever surgery the Hunting Dogs went through, and now not only is he stronger but he is also in a great position to watch others suffer and nobody will look twice because it is "justice."

Depending on how corrupt he has become, he may join Fukuchi without a second thought. I really agree with what @amodernpersephone said, and I think they put it well. "The DoA seems perfect for him. He's already nearly sympathized with the agency when they were in the DoA, what if finding out his dearly beloved Commander Fukuchi leads the true culprits?"

Finding out that the criminal he nearly sympathized with was actually someone so close to him is kind of the perfect scenario. And he's even getting an offer to help out.

But, liking to see the agony on others' faces and wiping out half the population are two completely different things.

Finding enjoyment in toying with people and watching the world burn are not the same scenarios. Watching people suffer is just an addition to Jouno's everyday life, a simple hobby to him. What Fukuchi is proposing is a much, much bigger ordeal. Something that will change his everyday life.

Still, there has been some foreshadowing to Jouno joining the DoA. I think @ckjbun pointed out in another post that the sadistic smile Jouno wears when his face is shrouded in darkness is very similar to the theater mask Fyodor once held in a 2 page spread. (Fyodor also holds a theater mask in an official art with Dazai and Atsushi, I believe, when Fyodor is representing Dazai's own reflection -but that's for an entire other post.)

But, of course, as you guys mentioned above we do not know enough about Jouno to truly predict what he'll do. One simple fact about him being revealed in the next chapter could change everything and make all my words completely invalid.

Also, I just wanna say, @ckjbun don't apologize!! You're not clogging up my post, I really like you and @amodernpersephone 's additions and theories. It adds things I've never thought of and it makes me feel like people enjoy my posts. Thank you guys!!

The funniest and most underutilized thing in BSD is the language barrier and I will die on this hill.

Imagine… You are F. Scott Fitzgerald and you didn’t bother to learn Japanese before coming to Japan to search for the book (why would you care to) and all the sudden these two seemingly teenagers manifest out of buttfuck nowhere and are rapidly arguing in Japanese to each other.

And you realize that you have to communicate your intentions to these two people who speak a language you didn’t bother to learn.

IMAGINE A VERY INTENSE GAME OF CHARADES ACROSS THE MOBY DICK AS SSKK AND FITZGERALD TRY TO COMMINUCATE WITH A MASSIVE LANGUAGE BARRIER.

Fitzgerald whips out Google Translate and Akutagawa and Atsushi stare at each other and try to figure out what the fuck he’s trying to say to them. Meanwhile, all he’s trying to say it “I will kick your asses.”

EVEN BETTER, Akutagawa knows some English because of the Mafia and has to play reluctant translator between Atsushi (who probably wasn’t taught anything at the orphanage) and Fitzgerald.

OR

I’m not a language expert so someone can come in here at any time and gimme stuff, but this concept is endlessly funny to me and is the most underutilized part of this fandom.