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D_A's Spammery

@daeva-agas / daeva-agas.tumblr.com

I like samurai, I like drawing, I like otome games, I like magical girl/boys transformation sequences.
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This is an article about Masamune from a historical museum dedicated to Mogami Yoshiaki.

Among various things, it casually says that the whole story about how Yoshihime hates Masa and tried to poison him and stuff is fake, and I guess it's one of those Edo era "fanfics" that has no proof of being legit.

Like, the way the article talked about, it suggests that Masa and his mum are just fine and they never hated each other or anything.

I suppose if Masa and his mother ever had any issues then it's probably more because at some point Masa got into a fight with the Mogami (his mother's birth family) or something. I don't know.

Anyway, nice to know that this "mother hates son" story is debunked again because it was also nonsense when it was Nobu and his mother. Far as I can find, it was basically just novels copying other novels and nobody can produce a real legit source for this story.

This Masa one at least had an "old source", but it doesn't make it fact.

I'm tired of this stupid plot being rehashed a bajillion times over in every single damn manga, anime, game, and drama. I keep saying that I do understand the fear of backlash from people who think it's true and then they get mad when they get something different, but this is social media era, bruh. Just make the thing, and then quickly follow that up with influencers flooding the internet with videos saying "Here's the historian certified reasons for why that thing in the episode you saw was actually true, and the old trope is bullshit".

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This news story talks about this 70 year old lady from a smaller clan who organised resistance against powerful Sengoku forces because her son who is the clan leader had been captured or taken as hostage.

Bookmarking this to look at later, but in short this looks more reasonable than the more sensationalistic stories about "wife wears armour and rides into battlefield". Sure, Sengoku documentation has shown that it is possible that women did have to go into battle sometimes, but those stories still sounded over the top to me. Japanese writers just REALLY love that "tough action girl who punches people" trope.

This lady just managed the estate and organised the fighting from the castle (because of her age, clearly). Like, even lords who are men operate like this, and they don't always have to march out into battle themselves.

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I already posted this before, but I can't find my old post, I must have tagged it weird.

I recently found the full quote of this letter and confirmed that this really was what the priest wrote. I don't know how he heard about this or where from, but just for funnies I made him just be there and see it happen.

Like. Who would be telling the European that Nobunaga was throwing around pillows? This priest was stationed in Kyoto when he wrote this. I don't even know, man.

Also the Japanese translation of this was weird. Either the person who posted the Japanese version miswrote the date or the translator screwed up, but the original Portuguese print of the letter says that it was written 14 January. The Japanese post says it was a letter from 4th of July.

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odaclan

The Conquest of Iga, as recorded in Seishū Gunki

同年の冬、伊賀住人福地某が信長の味方になり伊賀追討の兵を要請した。故に信長は信雄に伊賀を与え、各家臣に諸方から攻め込ませた。伊勢、名張口は北畠中将信雄である。同じく馬野口は滝川左近将監一益である。長野口は長野上野介信包である。鹿伏兎口は神戸三七信孝である。甲賀山の口は多羅尾久右衛門尉が先陣を受けた。下口は蒲生忠三郎氏郷である。大和笠置口は筒井順慶である。 伊賀の侍は防ぐ場所を失い其々城にこもった。信雄は丸山城を落とした。一益は富益城を落とし、富益氏は討ち死にして滅亡した。また、具野尾城は落ちず、信孝は柘植城を攻め落とした。氏郷は土山城を攻め数刻鉄砲合戦があった。伊賀は大軍を受けてかなわず有るものは討たれ、あるものは降伏しみな信雄の支配下に入った。故に信雄は丸山城を瀧川三郎兵衛尉に与え、柘植城を池尻平左衛門尉に与えた。また、仁木友梅(前守護・義視)を取り立て平楽寺城に入れた。
In the winter of the same year (1581), a certain Iga resident called Fukuchi became Nobunaga's ally, and requested for an army to launch a punitive expedition against Iga. Nobunaga granted Iga to Nobukatsu, and sent vassals to invade from all directions. From Ise, Nabari entrance, was the troops led by Lieutenant General Kitabatake Nobukatsu. At the same time, from Umano entrance, was the troops under Takigawa Sakon no Shōgen Kazumasu. From Nagano entrance, came Nagano Kōzuke no Suke Nobukane (Oda Nobukane). From the Kabuto entrance, Kanbe Sanshichi Nobutaka. The army coming from the entrance of Kōkayama was led by Lieutenant Tarao Kyūemon, while from the exit came Gamō Chūzaburō Ujisato. From the Yamato Kasagi entrance came the troops under Tsutsui Junkei. The samurai of Iga lost their defences, and holed themselves in their respective castles. Nobukatsu felled Maruyama Castle. Kazumasu felled Tomimasu Castle, and the entire Tomimasu clan were destroyed and killed. Gunō Castle did not fall, but Nobutaka attacked and conquered Tsuge Castle. Ujisato attaked Tsuchiyama Castle, and a gunfight lasted for a few hours there. Iga was no match for such a massive force, and some were defeated, while others surrendered themselves under Nobukatsu. After which, Nobukatsu granted Maruyama Castle to Lieutenant Takigawa Saburōbē and Tsuge Castle to Lieutenant Ikejiri Heizaemon. Also, he brought back Nikki Yūbai (the former shugo Nikki Yoshimi) and installed him in Heirakuji Castle.

(Seishū Gunki vol. 8)

In light of the recently released Assassin's Creed trailer, this really needed to be said:

Nobunaga does not invade Iga because he hated "ninjas"/shinobi. Nobunaga never participated in the Iga invasion and never directly led it.

Both are erroneous narratives that are constantly propagated both by Japanese and non-Japanese media, and this is just frustrating at this point. Some newer takes tried to "clean it up" by saying that Nobunaga invaded Iga as part of his nationwide conquest. That's a somewhat less wrong take on it, but if you put Nobunaga in direct command of the army, then it's still incorrect.

Both times the Oda forces attacked Iga, it was under the command of Nobunaga's son, Nobukatsu. After this final conquest, where Iga was thoroughly defeated in 1581, Nobunaga only came later to inspect the region. Everything had already been cleaned up, and the Shinchōkōki even recorded that there were lavish accommodations prepared for Nobunaga to stay in for the occasion.

Now going back to the narrative.

Seishū Gunki is somewhat less reliable than Shinchōkōki in various areas, but it's still a valuable material regardless. The are differences between this account and Shinchōkōki, though. For example, here Nobutaka was also listed as a participant. In the Shinchōkōki, Nobutaka was not listed as an officer that took part in the charge.

Another difference is that while Shinchōkōki corroborated Fukuchi surrendering himself to Nobunaga, it also mentioned that he was actually from Tsuge. Meaning that there was no need to attack and conquer Tsuge. Shinchōkōki also said that one of the Oda vassals went to Tsuge to protect it, and his name was listed as "Fuwa". In the above gunki narrative, this was the castle/region that Nobutaka attacked. It's likely that this part is in error in the gunki, and Nobutaka was not actually present here.

That aside, there has been various theories about why Nobukatsu attacked Iga, and there's an odd story of an Iga resident(s) who requested that the Oda invade his own homeland that was not explained in prior articles that I've seen. This request from the Iga folk themselves was what encouraged Nobunaga to grant permission for an official invasion of Iga, something that highly disapproved of 2 years prior.

This full text in the gunki provides an insight for the possible reason: It's possibly to restore the rightful shugo of Iga to power.

In the last part of the above text, a man named "Nikki Yoshimi" was referenced. The Nikki family was originally the official shugo (governors) of Iga. In a previous chapter of the gunki, it was mentioned that at some point they lost power, and the so-called council leadership of Iga became established.

If you've read the various floating narratives about how Iga is an "independent" society that is free from samurai rulership, this is how that supposedly came to be. The Nikki family were still there. They just got overrun by the people. If the above text is to be believed, the people who rebelled weren't peasants either. They were still considered of "samurai" class (they even own castles), just that they're perhaps of lower status (some texts would call them jizamurai).

If this narrative is actually accurate, then perhaps the men who came to the Oda for help were associates of the Nikki family. What they wanted was perhaps to the get rid of the "insurgents" who had rebelled and snatched power from the "rightful rulers".

So much for the mysticism of the secret "ninja" village and all, huh? It's just more of the typical power struggle between clans that are constantly happening in this time.

Incidentally, this situation is not entirely unique to Iga. A similar situation had occurred in Kaga almost a century prior, where the Ikkō from the Honganji affiliated temples there overthrew the shugo and ruled the land for a very very long time. Like in Iga, the shugo family were actually still there. They just effectively no longer had any power. The Ikkō rule remained until the Oda forces came and got rid of them as well.

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daeva-agas

Restoring the real governor into position was what I thought might have been the reason for this mess when I first heard of the Nikki clan last year (or two years ago?). It's just that I forgot to check this text. Interesting.

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Ok, this clarifies a thing. This was a letter dated 12th month of Tensho 10 (probably January 1583 ish), describing that Nobukatsu has been appointed as "proxy" for Hidenobu/Sanboushi.

The letter is signed by Hideyoshi, Nagahide, and Tsuneoki. This confirms what was said in the Wikipedia articles sort of. Wiki said that those three made this decision approximately in the 10th month of that year, and that's what made Nobutaka throw a hissy fit and keep Sanboushi hostage basically.

I'm reaaally itching to know if there's more paperwork surrounding this issue. Wiki said that as of the 6th of the 10th month, Shibata is accusing Hideyoshi of violating the Kiyosu conference's decision. Don't know what made him think so. Then on the 15th, Hideyoshi put up that big funeral for Nobunaga, and not even Nobukatsu was in attendance supposedly, so I don't know if they're already in cahoots at this point.

After the funeral Hideyoshi wrote this long letter that's like "I'm loyal, I promise on my own life", and he even offered to commit seppuku and die, like... Okay, man, what would you do if Nobutaka said "Yes, ok, go die"?

The non-conspiracy reading of this is Hideyoshi basically using Nobukatsu as his shield against Nobutaka. He really was plotting A Thing, and because Shibata and Nobutaka are raising objections, Hideyoshi's alliance put up Nobukatsu as the proxy lord so they can take action against Nobutaka in his name.

I really want to know how they got Nagahide to okay this silliness. Tsuneoki seems to be already in cahoots with Hideyoshi since Kiyosu, and Shibata is more in Nobutaka's side. But Nagahide seems neutral, so...

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Aaah, so there's this NHK program where it's like "the Nobubrat that you thought was dumb is actually smart though". It's something I would've wanted to watch, but I don't have NHK (and I don't know how to rent/buy/access the episode it "on demand").

Thankfully some guy provided a rather detailed summary of the program's content. Basically there were letter artefacts that indicate that Hideyoshi did view Nobukatsu with highest respect, and his tactics in Komaki-Nagakute was actually good.

As much as I like this interpretation, without seeing what the actual artefacts and how things work I can't judge for myself whether it's all forced and crock, or if it has merit.

Like, there's this part where they said he "consolidated his territory(?)" by focusing on pacifying the Iga riots or something. Which, based on my own reading of what little text I have access to, doesn't feel like it. It seems to me he wasn't confident that he could put up a stand if he entered Azuchi, and just turned back and left.

But there's still missing details that I don't have, like whether he even moved out to Azuchi at all, or if he never even headed there, and just focused on Iga right away.

Anyway, the Shizugatake circumstances is important. If as of Shizugatake Hideyoshi is still acting respectful, even if he's just pretending that could mean that the big dramatic seppuku Nobutaka did was false.

Like, that had always sounded absurd to me. Even if people can and will do crazy things in legitimate records, I always cautiously assume outlandish stories to be false first. Edo era stories tend to be super crazy and then turn out to be false, so I don't trust crazy stories now.

They're fun to tell on a fictional basis (for spice in otome/other Sengoku fiction), but for history it's just bunk.

Like, maybe it's just a respectable seppuku and Nobutaka is like "ah damn, my brother defeated me, I guess" and there's no dramatic tantrum of throwing bloody guts at the wall.

That, and that also means Nobukatsu bringing down the order of death on his brother was his own prerogative as the "leader", and not because he's Hideyoshi's underling.

The Komaki-Nagakute one is also something I really want to see the paper trails/maps for, because typically this was seen as "Ieyasu's battle", and I really want to know how the army movements went. Even when some of those annoying pop infotainment article acknowledge that Nobukatsu was the figurehead, they still claim Ieyasu did a lot of the work.

Also, this program mentioned that both Ieyasu and Nobukatsu were in accordance to want to negotiate peace with Hideyoshi. That would explain why Ieyasu wasn't pissed that Nobukatsu randomly just went "Nope, I'm done" and made peace instead of pushing ahead for victory. The reason the program said why Ieyasu and Hideyoshi still has beef afterwards is because the Tokugawa side of the negotiations failed, while Hideyoshi's agreement with Nobukatsu went through just fine. I need more info about this, because like... what happened???

I really want the details for why there's peace treaty. Wikipedia has been updated to now say that Hideyoshi was too strong, sacked too many of the castles, so both Nobukatsu and Ieyasu thought it was a lost cause and agreed to try to negotiate for peace.

Also, apparently Hideyoshi was already offered the post of shogun shortly after Komaki Nagakute but he said no, WTF.

I'm even more confused now honestly, but hopefully more info will come out and people will finally stop treating Komaki Nagakute like a Hideyoshi vs Ieyasu battle.

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Random thought about Nobutada's "typo" signature. Still unclear who that actually was, but it does seem to be 90% likely that it was Nobutada.

See. I have this crack idea that whenever the Nobuspawn brothers are together, the one writing/signing off the letters are actually Nobukatsu. Like, he's raised in a more noble household as opposed to just a regular samurai house, so maybe he's more eloquent writing-wise or something.

I don't know how common it is for -tada to be written with 直 in a name during the Sengoku (since like, I don't have lists for names of "random vassal Joe"), but Hanzo has this cousin(???) named Noritada whose name is like that. If that's actually pretty rare, it might actually amplify my crack idea. Nobukatsu's territory does already encroach into Iga, maybe he's already working with some of the Hattori relatives somehow. And maybe he's so used to reading and writing -tada names with a 直 that he forgot his own brother's name isn't like that.

Tried to look up the castle residences. I think it's not entirely impossible for Nobuspawn to have business with the Chigachi family.

Maruyama is the failed castle that nobody lived in, but that was part of the Kitabatake territory. Chigachi's residence is only like 1.5 hours away, I wouldn't be surprised if actually they have regular contact with the neighbours.

Like. Iga is not some isolated little village where nobody goes to. It's an entire damn province. We don't know what lordly business happens on the day to day between Ise and Iga, especially when the Kitabatake territory very obviously takes up space is inside Iga.

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odaclan

“Some guy named Yaheiji”

As the story goes, before the Lady Ikoma becomes Nobunaga’s consort, she was married to a “Tsuchida Yaheiji”. This Tsuchida died, and Lady Ikoma went home to her parents, and that was when she met Nobunaga.

That story was told in the Bukouyawa text, which as I previously reported, the Ikoma family has now declared to be complete nonsense. In the Ikoma family official genealogy, Yaheiji’s surname was not recorded.

The segment highlighted in yellow says:  初何某弥平次 嫁ス後織田右府之

“First married to a certain Yaheiji, afterwards married to Oda Ufu (Nobunaga)”

*) 右府 Ufu refers to the post of the Minister of the Right. 

You can also see that the lady’s name herself is not even listed here, which is why I’ve now switched to referring to her as Lady Ikoma and not the popularised (presumably fictive) name “Kitsuno”. I only maintain Kitsuno as a tag for archive purposes in this blog, because there’s too many posts to update if I were to change the tag.

The current Ikoma family representative said that he suspects “Yaheiji” is actually the man who will later be known as Akechi Hidemitsu, as he was previously known as Miyake Yaheiji. The reasoning for why the real surname is omitted is perhaps because during Hideyoshi’s reign, they feared they would be affected negatively for having former associations with the Akechi family.

As a comparison, her daughter Gotoku’s husband was very clearly recorded as “Okazaki Saburou Nobuyasu”  岡崎三郎信康

*) Ieyasu’s son Nobuyasu supposedly goes by “Okazaki Saburou” instead of “Tokugawa” in honour of his grandfather Matsudaira Hirotada, who also had used the same “Okazaki Saburou” name.

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daeva-agas

I don't think this person's identity will change anything, but it's just funny that it's written this way.

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odaclan

Ieyasu's reception in Azuchi hosted by Mitsuhide, Shinchoukouki Account

It just occurred to me that I never did post what the Shinchoukouki account say about Ieyasu's reception that Mitsuhide did.

And now, Lord Tokugawa Ieyasu traveled to the metropolitan provinces to express his gratitude to Nobunaga, as did Anayama Baisetsu. Declaring that these visitors must be treated with the utmost hospitality, Nobunaga issued the following orders: “First of all, fix the highways. Daimyo holding provinces and those holding districts—go to the places where our guests will be lodging, make sure that everything is prepared as splendidly as possible, and give them a feast!” [...]
[...] On the 15th of the Fifth Month, Lord Ieyasu left Banba and arrived at Azuchi. Nobunaga had decided that the Taihōbō Rectory would make a suitable place for Ieyasu to stay and ordered Koretō Hyūga no Kami (Mitsuhide) to take care of the entertainment. Koretō laid in the most unusual delicacies in Kyoto and Sakai and organized a stupendously magnificent feast, which lasted for three days from the 15th to the 17th.

(The Chronicle of Lord Nobunaga, page 463-464)

That was it. No problems were described, and everything seems to be great. Then Hideyoshi's report of the Mouri army came in, and Mitsuhide was sent away to prepare to march out.

The host duties for the rest of Ieyasu's visit was taken over by someone else, naturally, but not necessarily because Mitsuhide did anything wrong.

Advancing from Aki Province with their forces, Mōri, Kikkawa, and Kobayakawa took up positions confronting Hashiba in the field. [...] Nobunaga sent itemized orders to Hashiba Chikuzen’s camp. Then he designated Koretō Hyūga no Kami (Mitsuhide), Nagaoka Yoichirō, Ikeda Shōzaburō, Shiokawa Kitsudayū, Takayama Ukon, and Nakagawa Sehyōe to spearhead the offensive, and immediately gave them leave. On the 17th of the Fifth Month, Koretō Hyūga no Kami returned from Azuchi to his castle at Sakamoto. Each and every one of the others likewise went back to his home province and prepared for the campaign.

(The Chronicle of Lord Nobunaga, page 464)

There were actually other issues that did occur in this visit, namely a Noh dancer did not perform well and Nobunaga threw a huge fit over it (with Ieyasu still there watching, apparently). However, it was after Mitsuhide had already gone and it has nothing to do with him. The dance incident happened on the 19th, and Mitsuhide already left on the 17th as shown above.

Something I'm a bit curious about is that the Azuchi Castle historical maps had labelled a site as "Ieyasu-kou's residence", located across from Hideyoshi's residence. When I searched for the Taihoubou, it appeared to be located in the town area, and not part of the castle complex like the vassal residences.

I wonder if Ieyasu brought so many attendants that he had to be lodged in a different residence that is bigger? The marked site of Ieyasu's residence, based on the remaining foundation stones, seems to be on the smaller side.

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daeva-agas

Ffff, yeah, frick, I stand corrected I forgot about this.

It still doesn't make the Kawasumi Taikouki version more right, though, because that's a whole lot of pointless moving around. The above just says that Nobunaga decided Ieyasu should stay in the Taihoubou from the start.

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daeva-agas

Argh, sometimes I'm just... "WHY DON'T YOU KNOW THIS" with Sengoku article writers.

There's this article that I really appreciate because it directly quotes many useful sources (I think this is an excerpted part of a formal paper, that's why), but it goes into wild conspiracy theories based on weird stuff.

One of the narratives presented was that because Akechi was the host for Ieyasu's visit, Ieyasu must be staying at his residence in Azuchi. When the banquet failed and Akechi was dismissed as the host, the Tokugawa vassals must have had a lot of trouble repacking their stuff and moving to the new host's residence.

Writer-san, don't you know that according to the Azuchi floor plans and maps, Ieyasu owns a house at Azuchi? Ieyasu won't need to lodge at someone else's place, he can just stay in his own (guest) house. I'm going to assume that he has his own guest residence of some sorts because the Tokugawa is considered a very close friend, or so valuable an ally that they deserve their own residence and precisely to not have to bum with another vassal when they visit.

It's located next to Hideyoshi and Toshiie's houses, which is really funny to me, but this is not anime so it's not like the dumb friends duo would cause a ruckus there LOL.

Anyway. Yeah. This article is written in 2018. I had known about Ieyasu's residence in Azuchi since 2013, and for Japanese people this info should have been public and easily accessed for much longer (the Azuchi book I own that had the map was published in 2009).

Far as I can tell, nobody ever disputed this residence, or claim that it was mislabelled, or claim it was just a planned site and the house was never constructed.

Why do you need to make up such a convoluted drama about this?

(Edit: Unless the writer had thought that Ieyasu brought so many vassals that his residence can't fit them, or the residence was not meant to house vassals and the other random people like Hanzo or whoever are the ones who had to bum at others' houses)

Update: The writer made this claim because that was what was written in Kawasumi Taikouki (that Yasu first stayed at Akechi's place, then moved to another host's place).

Basically, it seems that the writer wrote the article assuming that Kawasumi Taikouki is entirely accurate and did not seem to have cross referenced other accounts to make sure there's no contradiction.

Prof. Owada Tetsuo says the description in Kawasumi Taikouki is a bit suspect. It is a Taikouki, which are Hideyoshi-positive accounts written in Hideyoshi's reign, so those books tends to write bad things about Akechi. Like, apparently in Kawasumi Taikouki it was also written that Akechi was so upset about his dismissal that he dumped all the prepared banquet courses into the castle moat. You know. Food, and plates, and all the utensils alike.

Sounds a tad silly to me, especially after all that blah trying to convince people about how gentlemanliest of gentlemen Akechi was as a person.

In his article Owada-sensei said that the rotten food/dismissal incident seems to be all bunk. None of this was recorded in Shinchoukouki. Luis Frois recorded that what he heard was that the problems that made Nobunaga get mad at Akechi happened during the planning stages (so Ieyasu haven't showed up yet), not during the visit itself. As far as actually reliable accounts go, nothing seems to have actually gone wrong in the banquet.

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@oda-princess: Ok, so the actual book is this (Amazon link).

This is in Japanese, and it's more of an archaeological data. Unless you also like to see ruins and rocks and broken pottery and other archaeology research materials, it's probably better to find a different book if you want more info on Azuchi. I just got it because I couldn't go hike up to the actual mountain to see the ruins for myself at the time.

The map with Ieyasu's house labelled on it is online too, if you want to see that (article link). Helpful label (Toshiie's house not listed here):

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Argh, sometimes I'm just... "WHY DON'T YOU KNOW THIS" with Sengoku article writers.

There's this article that I really appreciate because it directly quotes many useful sources (I think this is an excerpted part of a formal paper, that's why), but it goes into wild conspiracy theories based on weird stuff.

One of the narratives presented was that because Akechi was the host for Ieyasu's visit, Ieyasu must be staying at his residence in Azuchi. When the banquet failed and Akechi was dismissed as the host, the Tokugawa vassals must have had a lot of trouble repacking their stuff and moving to the new host's residence.

Writer-san, don't you know that according to the Azuchi floor plans and maps, Ieyasu owns a house at Azuchi? Ieyasu won't need to lodge at someone else's place, he can just stay in his own (guest) house. I'm going to assume that he has his own guest residence of some sorts because the Tokugawa is considered a very close friend, or so valuable an ally that they deserve their own residence and precisely to not have to bum with another vassal when they visit.

It's located next to Hideyoshi and Toshiie's houses, which is really funny to me, but this is not anime so it's not like the dumb friends duo would cause a ruckus there LOL.

Anyway. Yeah. This article is written in 2018. I had known about Ieyasu's residence in Azuchi since 2013, and for Japanese people this info should have been public and easily accessed for much longer (the Azuchi book I own that had the map was published in 2009).

Far as I can tell, nobody ever disputed this residence, or claim that it was mislabelled, or claim it was just a planned site and the house was never constructed.

Why do you need to make up such a convoluted drama about this?

(Edit: Unless the writer had thought that Ieyasu brought so many vassals that his residence can't fit them, or the residence was not meant to house vassals and the other random people like Hanzo or whoever are the ones who had to bum at others' houses)

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Randomly thinking of that time where Saitou Yoshitatsu/Tatsuoki's people were apparently trying to plan to assassinate Nobunaga and they were talking shit about Nobunaga openly or whatever, but literally an Oda vassal was like right there overhearing them and got really really suspicious.

So the guy was like "Hello, I'm from Mikawa🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃" and basically tailed them all the way to Kyoto. And then he asked one of the pages "So what you up to? Sightseeing? Hot springs?" and the page thought "ah whatever, he's from Mikawa", and spilled the murder plot and the vassal went 🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃 and immediately reported it to Nobu.

Nobu then had the would-be assassins brought out and was like "Ok. Wanna have a go at me right now? Bring it." And they were so mortified to have been caught that they just sat there going D:

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I'm very curious when and how did Nobunaga get the "sansuke" title, since it seemed like it's ridiculously lofty.

Even if in the Sengoku there's a lot of bullshit titles, the three provinces in question are imperial provinces, so classically the samurai in charge of those provinces should be very highly regarded.

There's paperwork signed by shogun Yoshiteru that show Nobunaga has "Sansuke" title even as early as 1561. Why? How? Was it rewarded because of Okehazama? How big of a deal is the title in the first place?

For example, Akita-jou no Suke is a title that has nothing to do with Akita Castle at all, but it implies high prestige because of the title actually carrying an important meaning in the past. Not just anyone can be called this. A sansuke sounds like it means they're the imperial representative rulers of the provinces in question, and having 3 at once should not be just whatever.

Like, just a Kazusa no Suke is itself already a big deal, and some has suggested Nobunaga's tutor committed seppuku over this. As in. This is such a dumbass arrogant move that the tutor was so despaired.

(There was also that thing with the horse, but it may be both)

This bolsters my increasing belief that young Nobu may have proven himself as a domestic provincial warrior, but he's still garbage at politics and leadership for a good long while. He's not that cunning, and he probably floundered around in 1568. Covering for the political paperwork stuff is what Akechi was for, I bet.

Anyway, if Kazusa was a big deal, then THREE of them has to be even a bigger deal.

I'm so confused.

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(read right to left)

I screentoned this random old original Sengoku comic scene I made for practice some years ago. It's kind of relevant, since I was thinking/salting on cliche Taiga stuff lately.

Pre-Shizugatake, featuring a Nice Hideyoshi, Scary Nobukatsu, and Kanbei being Hideyoshi's moral support (kind of).

The "head of clan" Nobukatsu mentioned is the baby, Sanboushi, not himself. This is based on the new theories that says that Shizugatake happened because Nobutaka and Katsuie kidnapped the baby and plotted a headship takeover by holding him hostage.

In this scenario Nobukatsu is put in charge as the temporary head until Sanboushi can be retrieved.

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I consider these Tokugawa propaganda stuff to be untrustworthy, but *cackles*

In Tokugawa Jikki it was described that Nobuspawn was actually well-regarded by the Oda vassals, so to bring him down, Hideyoshi created this conspiracy to get him mad and kill some loyal vassals and cause discord.

Dafuq did you plagiarise that from the Three Kingdoms again??? Cao Cao was fooled into executing loyal vassals and then it was like “Oh woops I completely fucked up”.

Mikawa Monogatari says that Hideyoshi tried to demand that Nobuspawn commit seppuku, so he ran to Ieyasu for help.

Both of these are absurd LOL. I’ve just about had enough of these accounts. I don’t trust any of them anymore. Hideyoshi’s status between Honnouji and his ascendence to Kanpaku is still very confusing and too many of the narratives seem to be back-reading Hideyoshi’s later authority as Kanpaku (probably because of the propaganda Taikouki books), which is not right.

Fingers crossed, hopefully the new Komaki Nagakute book that was recently discovered will be publicised in modern text or just makes news again so I can find out what the hell does it actually say. It’s Tokugawa-era, but seems to be less biased, so... 

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