mouthporn.net
#long post – @curiouslilbird on Tumblr
Avatar

@curiouslilbird / curiouslilbird.tumblr.com

90s child | AuDHD | multifandom. Reblogging humor, creativity, important points, and beautiful things, primarily.
Avatar

Here’s a thing about antisemitism.

Right now, a popular post I made about religion is being reposted by a dark subset of people who are literally asserting that all Jews are reptilian overlords, baby killers, ritual child murderers, satan worshipers, and animal abusers. Some are literally saying things like “we need to have a holy war to cleanse these people.” I have reported and blocked over 100 accounts for this, and I’ve seen their bios, their profile pics, and their pages. And here’s the thing.

They’re right wing, and they’re left wing. They’re men, and women, and trans, and nonbinary. Some have their preferred pronouns in their header, and some have deus vult or 14/88. They will have a post about meaningful gun reform right before a post about killing Jews for blood libel. Which it turns out people definitely still believe in today. They are from America and Germany, but also Ireland and Kazakstan, dozens of countries. They have swatzika tattoos, and cross tattoos, and bisexual pride flag tattoos. They are white, but they are also black, asian, latinx, mixed race. They are Evangelical, they are Catholic, they are atheists, they are all religions. They are all ages. They share the same viral posts you share, they laugh at the same memes you laugh at (although they do have a strange love of frogs). They work manual labor jobs in rural areas, driving trucks, but they also wear suits and live in the city and work in politics. They are diverse. They are “woke.”

I’m just so disgusted by what I’ve seen today.

The thing about anti-Semitism is that it can be transferred to just about any ideology: jews are communists or they’re bourgeois, they want to stay separate, they want to assimilate, they want to maintain their own boundaries but still take a part in community affairs.

It really stinks, and please feel free to stop by anytime for some Jewish solidarity.

And anyone can stop by anytime for any solidarity about any form of hate.

Avatar
ellidfics

The fine results of sixty years of demonizing Israel’s governmental policies.

Avatar
penrosesun

Hey you know what? I think you probably mean well, but no, antisemitism is not about Israel, and saying that it is gives antisemites a lot of ammunition (“I don’t hate Jews; I just have a problem with the Israeli government!”).

The modern State of Israel was founded in 1948. That, as far as antisemitism is concerned, is so modern that it barely even registers on the timeline of brutal antisemitic violence and genocide.

Let me walk you through a timeline, focusing only on some of the largest, most violent antisemitic purges:

  1. The Holocaust began in 1941, and left 6 million Jews dead.
  2. Before that, there was Kristallnacht, which occurred in 1938.
  3. That same year, Ecuador forcibly expelled all Jewish residents not working in agriculture.
  4. Four years before that, in 1934, 2,000 Afghani Jews were expelled from their towns forced to live in the wilderness.
  5. In 1929, the Jewish community of Hebron was massacred.
  6. In 1922, the Hebrew language was banned in the Soviet union, and thousands were sent to the Gulag for so-called “Jewish cultural particularism”.
  7. In 1921 all Jews living in Mongolia were forcibly expelled.
  8. In 1919, Jews were mass executed by the Polish Army in the Pinsk massacre, and the the Kiev Pogroms killed 30,000-70,000 Jews, and left half a million more homeless.
  9. The year before that, 3,000–10,000 Caucasus Jews were killed during The March Days.
  10. Between 1917–1921, Russian Pogroms killed as many as 250,000 Jews.
  11. In one 48-hour interval in May 1915, all 40,000 Jews living in Kaunas, Lithuania were forcibly expelled from the city.
  12. In 1910, Shiraz blood libel pogrom swept through Shiraz, Iran, brutalizing thousands.
  13. In 1891, 20,000 Jews were forcibly expelled from Moscow, Russia.
  14. In 1881–1884, pogroms swept through all of Russia, forcing 2 million Jews to flee the country.
  15. In 1864, at least 500 Moroccan Jews were massacred in Marrakech and Fez.
  16. In 1862, during the American Civil War, General Grant issued an order expelling all Jews from his military district, before being directed by President Lincoln to rescind the order.
  17. In 1815 Pope Pius VII reestablished the ghetto in Rome, and forcibly confined the Jewish population of the city there.
  18. On June 29, 1805, 200-500 Algerian Jews were massacred.
  19. In 1791 Catherine II of Russia confined Jews to the Pale of Settlement and doubled their taxes.
  20. Between 1790–1792, most of the Jewish communities of Morocco were destroyed.
  21. In 1786, Jews were forcibly expelled from Jeddah.
  22. In 1776, the Jewish community of Basra was massacred.
  23. In 1768, the Jews of the Jews of Uman, Ukraine were massacred.
  24. In 1766, Jews were forcibly expelled from Toruń.
  25. In 1753, the Jewish community of Kaunas was forcibly expelled.
  26. In 1744, the Archduchess of Austria Maria Theresa forced the entire Bohemian Jewish community to pay for their readmission into the country every ten years, and introduced a law limiting each Jewish family to one son.
  27. In 1743, the Jewish community of Riga was forcibly expelled.
  28. In 1742 Elizabeth of Russia issues a decree of expulsion of all the Jews out of Russian Empire.
  29. In 1727, Catherine I of Russia issued an edict forcibly expelling all Jews from Ukraine.
  30. In 1718, the Jews of Carniola, Styria and Carinthia were forcibly expelled
  31. In 1717, all Jews living in Gibraltar were forciblt expelled.
  32. In 1715, Elector Max Emanuel ordered the deportation of all Jews living in Bavaria.
  33. In 1712, a blood libel in Sandomierz led to the forcibly expulsion of the entire local Jewish population.
  34. In 1691, 219 people were convicted of being Jewish in a court in Palma, Majorca, and 37 of them were publicly burned to death. 
  35. Only 500 Jews survived Austrian sieged the city of Buda in 1686. Half of them were then sold into slavery.
  36. In 1679, a large percentage of the Jews of Yemen were forcibly expelled in the Exile of Mawza. Many died along the march to the Mawza, and more died once there due to the barren and inhospitable conditions there.
  37. Between 1648–1655, the Ukrainian Cossacks massacred about 100,000 Jews and destroyed 300 Jewish communities.
  38. In 1639, more than 60 people accused of being Jews in Lima, Peru were burned at the stake in a single Auto-da-fé. 
  39. In 1633, Jews were forcibly expelled from Radom.
  40. In 1615 King Louis XIII of France decreed that all Jews must leave the country within one month on pain of death.
  41. In 1593, at least 900 Jews were forcibly expelled from Bologna.
  42. In 1593 Pope Clement VIII forcibly expelled Jews from all Papal states except the ghettos in Rome and Ancona.
  43. In 1591, Philip II, King of Spain, banished and forcibly expelled all Jews from the duchy of Milan.
  44. In 1571, the Mexican Inquisition began, leading to the trial and execution of those suspected of secretly practicing Judaism.
  45. In 1569, Pope Pius V forcibly expelled all the Jews of Bologna, and encouraged the vandalization and destruction of all Jewish graveyards within the region.
  46. In 1560, the Goa Inquisition began, and those in the region who were suspected of secretly practicing Judaism were tried and executed.
  47. Between 1537-1546, Martin Luther whips up antisemitic sentiment throughout Germany, leading to multiple forcible expulsions of the Jewish communities living in the region.
  48. In 1543, all Jews were exiled and forcibly expelled from Basel.
  49. In 1540, all Jews were banished from Prague.
  50. In 1539, all Jews were forcibly expelled from Nauheim.
  51. In 1535, the Spanish sold all of the Jews of Tunis into slavery.
  52. In 1526 Jews were expelled from Hungary, Croatia, and Slovakia following the Battle of Mohács.
  53. In 1519, the Jewish community of Ratisbon was forcibly expelled, and it’s synagogues and graveyards were looted for building materials.
  54. In 1511, most Apulian Jews were either expelled or tortured to death.
  55. In 1510, the Jews of Naples were forcibly expelled.
  56. In 1510, 40 Jews were executed in Brandenburg, Germany, and the remainder of the Jewish population was forcibly expelled.
  57. That same year, 38 Jews publicly burned at the stake in Berlin.
  58. In 1506, a massacre in Lisbon, Portugal killed over 2,000 Jews in the span of just three days.
  59. In 1499, all Jews were forcibly expelled from both Nuremberg and Verona. 
  60. In 1498, Jews were forcibly expelled from most of France.
  61. In 1496, the Jews of Portugal, including those who had fled the Spanish Inquisition just four years prior, were forcibly converted to Christianity and expelled.
  62. In 1495, the Jews of Lecce were massacred and the Jewish quarter was burned to the ground.
  63. In 1493 approximately 37,000 Jews were forcibly expelled from Sicily.
  64. In 1492, the Jewish population of Tuat was massacred in a pogrom.
  65. In 1481, the Spanish Inquisition began, leading to the murder, torture, forced conversion, and forcible expulsion of the Jewish population of Spain.
  66. On Assumption Day, August 15, 1474, the Jews of Modica were massacred. During the evening, Christians are recorded to have run through the streets chanting: “Hurrah for Mary! Death to the Jews!”
  67. In 1473, the Jews of Cordova, Spain were massacred.
  68. In 1421 in Vienna, 270 Jews were burned at stake, and all remaining Viennese Jews were forcibly expelled.
  69. In the single year of 1391, more than 400 Jews were massacred in Barcelona, another 250 Jews were massacred in Valencia, and all the Jewish inhabitants of Palma, Majorca were killed or forced to convert.
  70. In March of 1389, approximately 3,000 Jews in Prague were killed in a single massacre.
  71. In 1370, the entire Jewish population of Brussels was massacred, completely eliminating the Jewish community there. The event was commemorated by local Christians as “the Sacrament of Miracle”.
  72. In 1354, approximately 12,000 Jews were massacred throughout Spain.
  73. On August 4, 1349, 6,000 Jews were burned to death in Mainz as a part of the Black Death Jewish persecutions. Around 3,000 more Jews were massacred in Erfurt for the same reason, 600 were burned at the stake in Zurich, 600 more were burned at the stake in Basel, and the entire Jewish population of Speyer was destroyed.
  74. In 1336, roughly 1500 Jews were killed in Franconia and Alsace.
  75. In 1328, approximately 5,000 Jews were massacred following antisemitic preaching by a Franciscan friar.
  76. In 1321 the Jews in central France were accused of ordering lepers to poison wells. After a massacre which killed an estimate 5,000 Jews, King Philip V admitted that the rumor was false and they were innocent.
  77. In 1298, German knight Rintfleisch claimed to have received a mission from heaven to exterminate “the accursed race of the Jews”. Under his leadership, approximately 100,000 Jews were massacred, often by mass burning at stake.
  78. In 1290, the Jews of Baghdad were massacred.
  79. In 1290, the Edict of Expulsion forcibly expelled all Jews from England.
  80. In 1285, a blood libel in Munich, Germany resulted in the massacre of 68 Jews. Following the massacre, 180 more Jews were burned alive inside  synagogue which was lit on fire.
  81. In 1275, King Edward I of England passed the Statute of the Jewry, forcing Jews over the age of seven to wear an identifying yellow badge, and seizing Jewish assets. Scores of English Jews were arrested, and 300 were publicly hanged.
  82. In 1236, Crusaders attacked the Jewish communities of Anjou and Poitou and slaughtered an estimated 3,000 Jews.
  83. In 1232, over 1,000 Moroccan Jews in Marrakesh were killed.
  84. In 1203, the entire Jewish quarter of Constantinople was burned down by Crusaders.
  85. In 1190, the Jews of York were massacred by departing Crusaders.
  86. In 1171 the Jews of Bologna were forcibly expelled.
  87. In 1146, an estimated 100,000 Jews were massacred by the Almohads in Fez and 120,000 more were massacred in Marrakesh.
  88. In 1124, the Jewish Quarter of Kiev was burned to the ground by antisemitic arsonists.
  89. During the First Crusade, more than 5,000 Jews were murdered in the Rhineland. Another 1,200 Jews committed suicide in Mainz to escape torture and forcible conversion.
  90. In 1066, the Granada Massacre killed more than 4,000 Jews in a single day.
  91. In 932, the Jewish quarter of Bari, Italy was destroyed.
  92. In 694 King Ergica of Toledo ordered the kidnapping of all Jewish children over the age of seven, and the raising of those kidnapped children as Christians.
  93. In 469, half of the Jewish population of Isfahan was put to death.
  94. In 325, all Jews were forcibly expelled and banned from Jerusalem.
  95. Between 132–135, the Bar Kokhba revolt was crushed, and 580,000 Jews were killed. Hadrian then ordered the forcible expulsion of all Jews from Judea, which was then merged with Galilee in order to form the province of Syria Palaestina, renamed in order to suppress the Jewish people’s connection to their historic homeland.

Sixty years?! Sixty years is nothing.

Antisemitism is one of the oldest forms of bigotry that still exists, and it exists in largely the same form that it always has. Non-Jews persecute Jews because we refuse to assimilate, because we emphasize literacy and education, and because we are an ethnic minority. These thousands of years of violent murder, torture, expulsion, exile, and degradation have nothing whatsoever to do with the modern State of Israel.

Antisemitism, much like the original post highlighted, transcends modern politics. It transcends most modern cultural divides.

Antisemitism is religious bigotry and racial hatred all rolled into one, and virtually no group on Earth has clean hands.

How the FUCK is this list so long. What the fuck. What the Fuck. How is there SO MUCH HATRED for them what the Actual Fuck

like what did Jewish people ever do to you????? like seriously???? like I understand animosity. I have some strong personal hatred for individuals and some disdain for a group of people (billionaires) but even if someone did do something to me, that is absolutely not grounds for maiming or irreparably harming or killing them, much less killing their family, their friends, their friends’ families, and anyone else that shares a particular association with them!!!! like what the actual shit?????

edit: I will however gladly throw the FUCK down with anyone who wants to hurt jewish people for being jewish

Hi!

A lot of it is/was motivated by money. Yes, even the holocaust.

The justification for hating is classically based in the Christian religion, but antisemitism is now definitely also political. It’s about blaming everything on us and having a scapegoat.

But the motivation? Money. Pogroms, expulsions, killings, all of these were and are forms of real estate and property liquidation.

If anyone who is unfamiliar with historical and modern antisemitism and how it functions and wants to educate themselves as an ally, I recomend reading the book Why the Jews?. Some of the language is a bit outdated but it’s a short and informative introduction to the topic. It is an emotionally difficult read though, so keep that in mind before cracking it open

I’m gonna add on that the origins of left wing antisemitism, the whole thing they try to gaslight with the explination of “I’m not antisemitic, I’m just antizionist” has a direct line connecting it to Stalin and Russian Orthodox/Tsarist antisemitism.

Stalin had hoped that the freshly created state of Israel, which was a very left leaning nation when it was reconstituted, would side with the Soviet/Communist bloc. When it didn’t he felt personally slighted, and so started trying to take that petty grudge out on Russian/Soviet Jews. That whole Doctors Plot conspiracy was actually just an excuse to added Jewish doctors to the list of dead in Stalin’s purges. Thankfully he died before it could be fully started, but it started the ball rolling. His hatred of Israel tapped into the latant Russian antisemitism left over from the Tsarist period and twisted it from the recent antisemitism that birthed that conspiracy book Protocols of the Elders of Zion and into a whole gaslighting thing of “we are just opposing a settler/colonial state, not just blindly hating Jews for fake reasons again.” This led to various levels of Soviet/Russian antisemitism, ranging from passing over Jews for various jobs in various fields to outright denying Soviet Jews the ability to even visit Israel (the Refuseniks).

And so that soon became party line for many left leaning groups around the world, never really realizing that all Zionism is is just an indigenous people that have been targeted and hated and oppressed for millennia living with security and autonomy in their indigenous homeland. The fact that western society focuses so much on Ashkenazi Jews (Jews that went to central/Eastern Europe in the diaspora after Rome expelled us after we failed to expel their occupation of Ancient Israel and so have become white-passing over the near 2,000 years in Europe) as what all Jews look like doesn’t help either. Cause that ignores Jews of color, such as all of those that got ethnically cleansed or expelled from Arab lands, who make up two thirds of Israel’s population.

Left wing antisemitism that’s hidden behind “antizionism” is definitely another link in the chain of baseless hatred directed at us. 60 years is definitely enough time to have another “reason” to hate us. Stalin was a master manipulator, and he took the leftover Tsarist era antisemitism and twisted it into the beginnings of what we recently saw in UK Labour under Jeremey Corbyn and in the US with people like Linda Sarsour. To ignore what it is is to let it continue.

What the fuck did Jewish people do to receive any of this hatred?? I know that there had been Christian propaganda written about jewish people throughout history. But why? Why did that happen?

Historically, our homeland was a VERY important trade route, connecting Africa, Asia, and Europe. Control trade, and you control food imports, and you control empires. That’s why Rome invaded. (Actually, it’s also why Greece/Macedonia, Medeo-Persia, Babylon, Assyria, and Egypt invaded. Its been a very strategic land to control since the dawn of civilization. Location location location.)

The two largest religions in the world (Xianity, Islam) are later derivations of OUR religion. That makes that piece of land MORE attractive to them, because controlling it gives them a sense of religious authority.

A big reason that Xianity as a (technically heretical) sect of Judaism split off and became their OWN religion is that VERY early Xians and mainstream Jews were allied during a revolt against the Romans (who again, wanted that land because location location location). The job of Mashiach in Judaism is to free Israel and establish a safe home for Jews there, and to establish world peace. (Jesus obviously did not accomplish this, hence the need for a “second coming.”) Because the leader of this revolt looked like he was about to succeed in DOING THOSE THINGS, most Jews said “hey, maybe THIS guy, Bar Kokvah, is the Mashiach!” Xians DID NOT LIKE THIS, because they thought that their dead guy (who again, did not accomplish the things) was the Mashiach. So we already didnt LIKE each other because they were heretics, but it boiled over when…

They betrayed Jews at a crucial point, thousands died, and the revolution failed. Jews got mad and said “you can’t be part of our synagogues anymore because you BETRAYED US AND WE DIED,” and Xians said “fine, we hated you anyway because you didnt accept our weird Mithras cult” and ran directly to the Mommy, the remainders of Roman Empire, and said “can we be the state religion now?” Mommy Byzantium, seeing an oppprtunity, said yes, Xianity separated from Judaism and rose to POWER, and held a bunch of official meetings and added things to their own writings (even they will admit this). They added theology that is 100% not compatible with Judaism, and they also outlawed Jewish practices and shit talked Jews a lot. Many verses in their books before ecumenical councils are also antisemitic. The Byzantine royal family (at this point, all that’s left of actual Rome) had sensed a shift in religion and power, and capitalized on this new and upcoming religion by making themselves very important figures in it, solidifying their political power through divine authority. (Later, Germans and Italians would say “hey, that’s not a bad idea, and copied them, creating the Holy Roman Empire, famously neither holy, nor Roman, nor an actual empire. Popes did not like this, and constantly tried to squash the HRE and Byzantine Empire, and I guess ultimately they did, but they also lost all political power in the process.)

Xians also then decided that they would blame Jews for killing Jesus forever, and would constantly murder and punish them for it, even though A) according to Xianity Jesus HAD TO DIE for them to be “saved,” so really they shouldn’t be mad about it and B) Jews literally DID NOT have the authority to sentence people to death, especially by crucifixion, literally ONLY Rome could do that.

Then, Xians decided that they needed to control Ye Holee Lande™, so they slaughtered a bunch of Jews and Muslims to get it and promptly lost it again, but they didn’t stop trying to get it back, and they killed thousands on all sides in the process.

Jews at this point have no homeland, having been kicked around by Romans, Xians, and Muslims. The latter of whom actually usually treated us way better than Xians, in general, especially in Al-Andalus, which you might unfortunately know now as “Spain,” because a bunch of important Xian families married and united their armies and killed all the Jews and Muslims there and said “this is our country now, get out and/or we will kill you.” They erased a powerful and prosperous Emirate of universities, poets, scholars, artists, musicians, and theologians, which had flourished all through the Dark Ages in Xian lands. (They then promptly sailed to the Americas, so that they could forcibly convert, rape, steal from, and murder those people too. )

But anyway, no homeland, which means that we often lived in OTHER peoples countries and didn’t get to participate in society or government. General xenophobia turned people against these Jewish “outsiders.” Painting us as dangerous, disloyal, christ killers, immigrants, was an easy way to create fear and fighting and keep the poor poor and the rich in power. (We see this today all the time. Think about it with other groups. I’m sure you can think of how leaders in your country have exploited public fear and xenophobia to stay in power.)

Xians, who had by this time been stealing and mistranslating our holy books for >1000 years, saw a verse that said “Jews may not charge other Jews unfair interest rates.” But Xians are “uncomfortable when we are not about me,” so THEY decided that this meant “Xians are not allowed to charge other Xians ANY INTEREST AT ALL.” But that would have made their economy collapse. So they had an idea. “What if we make it illegal for Jews to own any property or land or normal businesses, BUT, we let them run banking guilds, and THEY can charge US interest, and the economy will work.” It was a great idea for everybody but Jews, because the side effect was that A) poor people suddenly saw JEWS as the ones taxing them and taking their money when really it was the Kings, and B) whenever Jews got too successful, the government would kill them all (or kick them out, if it was a nice day), and poof - all that money (and land they were renting) was “liquidated” and could go to the government. (This was a super easy score for the Church, largely synonymous with the government for many centuries, because the idea that Jews are greedy money grubbing thieves is baked into the literal text of the New Testament, so they didnt even need to be creative to get people to accept this lie.)

This trope of Jews running things and making money off everyone and being greedy eventually led to a conspiracy theory that we wanted to/did already secretly dominate the Entire World, which is where the Elders of Zion/Illuminati/Lizard people/“Global Elite” trope comes from. That’s why you get FUCK-OFF RIDICULOUS things like DC councilmen saying “well we all know Jews control the weather and cause natural disasters to make money off them” from. Yes, that really happened. (And then, they made him go on an apology tour of the DC Holocaust Museum, where he played games on his phone and stormed out halfway through. Yes really.)

Again, because xenophobia, lots of other nasty aspects of Jew hatred popped up. The formula goes: Jews killed Christ -> Satan is the enemy of Christ -> Jews are in league with Satan -> Jews are witches and evil. This isnt even a stretch for them, because this kind of language is ALSO literally found in the Xian bible. A particularly nasty and pervasive part of this cycle was the idea that Jews (in a perverted version of holy communion, because Catholics and Xians view of witchcraft was just “upsidedown/backwards Xianity”) was the idea that Jews kidnapped Xian babies and used their blood to make bread. That one got a LOT of Jews killed.

Even the Holocaust is fundamentally part of this whole pattern. Post WWI Germany owed MASSIVE unpayable debts to the world for their role in the great war. They were bankrupt, disunified, and unstable. Hitler used fear and propaganda to rise to power by appealing to a base who were economically suffering and already super racist and xenophobic (like… many modern politicians… do the math…) and then the Holocaust itself was again, super super about real estate and property liquidation. (Bonus, they were invading the rest of Europe, so they ALSO got to steal art and money and national treasures from conquered governments, not JUST Jews.) Nazis really liked shiny things, and they really liked taking them to Berlin.

Later, Russia, who got to Berlin, also admitted to really linking shiny things, having made off with a LOT of international treasures and pretending they didnt have them for decades. They still have them, and they basically announced “there’s nothing you girls can do about it.” They also killed millions of Jews during the USSR days, made our religion illegal, and the current Russian government and Orthodox Church officially blames Jews for the revolution and murder of the Romanovs. Yes really. Let me say, unequivocally, fuck Russia.

There you have it, a VERY BREIF overview of antisemitism.

I should add, a VERY BRIEF history of antisemitism IN EUROPE, because I’m too exhausted to even get into the rest of the world right now, but it’s really a continuation of those same themes and cycles.

Compare to the list above if you’re curious about specific historical events you can google to learn more.

i really fucking hate how many ppl here are like “what did jews do???????” as if bigotry is a punishment for an ancient crime. we existed. that’s what we did. and that was, and still is, a crime punishable by death.

spot on @king-shit-thembo​ thank you

Avatar
Avatar
waskurttrans

Kurt Cobain Will Have His Revenge on the Straights

Had a video call with my brother Chuck the other day.  Things got heavy:

KATE: Was Kurt Cobain a trans woman?

CHUCK: What?

Kurt Cobain.  Rock musician.  He was in a band called Nirvana.

I’m familiar with him, yes.

Was he a trans woman?

Um.  No?

OK.  Why not?

I mean, he wasn’t.  It’s like asking why he wasn’t an astronaut.

He wasn’t an astronaut because he never went to space.  Why wasn’t he a trans woman?

Because he didn’t transition.  I mean, he didn’t ever say he was a woman, didn’t ever say he was trans.  So no.  Kurt Cobain wasn’t a trans woman.

So someone is trans if they say they’re trans.  Self-determination.

That’s what you’ve told me.  Is that wrong?

No, that’s right.  We know ourselves better than anybody else can know us.  If we say we’re trans, nobody can say we aren’t.

And Kurt Cobain never said he was trans.

So was I trans in 1994?

I don’t know, were you?

Yes, but if you’d asked me in 1994, I would have told you “no”.

So if I tell you I’m trans, I’m trans…

Right.

But if I tell you I’m cis, I might still be trans?

If you tell me you’re cis, I believe you.

That’s not the same thing as “I’m cis”.

That’s a really good point.  This is sort of what some queer people are getting at when they say “gender is a construct”.

Come again?

Well, you’re cisgender, right?

As far as I know, yes.

Aha.

Hmmm?

You hedged.  “As far as I know” isn’t the same thing as “yes”.  “As far as I know” opens up the possibility that you could be trans and not know it.

It doesn’t seem terribly likely.

That’s an interesting statement.  Early on in transition one of the biggest problems I had was dealing with the sheer unlikelihood of my being trans.  I mean, I knew trans people existed.  I knew somebody had to be trans.  I just couldn’t wrap my head around the idea that it would be me.

Do you think this is why you’re on this whole “Kurt Cobain was a trans woman” kick?

Hey now, I’m just asking questions.  You know.  Like J.K. Rowling is “just asking questions”.

Kate, you are literally wearing a T-shirt that says “KURT COBAIN WAS A TRANS WOMAN” on it right now.

Am I?  Oh, shit.  I thought I was wearing my “Skip school, take hormones, kill God” T-shirt.  To your question, though - yeah, I do think that’s part of it.  Honestly, the hardest thing about growing up trans was believing that nobody in the world had ever experienced what I was experiencing.  I didn’t have any role models.  I didn’t wonder if I was the only one.  I was convinced of it.

So being able to say that this incredibly gifted songwriter, the voice of a generation, was a trans woman like you…

I need someone like that.  I need to not be the first of my kind.

Of course you’re not the first trans woman.

No, but before a couple of years ago almost every trans woman would tell you they always knew, unquestionably and innately, that they were women.

So it’s not just about him being trans, but specifically his being a trans woman who didn’t know he was a trans woman.

An egg.  Right.

Why Kurt Cobain, anyway?  What’s so special about him that you’re trying to induct him into the Egg Hall of Fame?

He knew things.  Things cis guys don’t know.  Things I didn’t know until after I started transition.  He understood women, what we’re like, what we experience.  “Pennyroyal Tea”.  “Rape Me”.  I just have a hard time thinking of a cis man who could write songs like that.

It wouldn’t be the only way in which he was exceptional.

True.  Ahhh.  I don’t know.  I mean, I know, I can give you all the reasons, but there’s something in his eyes.

Something in his eyes.

All the pictures of him.  No matter what he’s doing.  If he’s grinning, or sad, whatever he’s doing, you can see something trapped there.  Trapped and in pain, wanting to get out but not quite knowing how.

Huh.  You, uh, know that what you’re doing is pretty much the textbook definition of projection, right?

Maybe.  Chuck, do you think I’m happier?

Since you transitioned?

Yeah.

Of course.  Absolutely.  Night and day.

Everyone says that, and honestly, I see it.  Even in pictures, you know?  I see it.  You’ve seen some of my transition timelines, right?

You do look really different.

It’s not just me.  Every single person who transitions looks like that.  We look so much happier, so much more alive, so much more us.  I don’t understand how anybody can hate us.

I don’t get it either, Kate.

And when I look at any timelines, I look at the before photos… and I see something in their eyes.  Transmasc, transfem, doesn’t matter.  There’s something trapped wanting to get out.  Every picture I’ve ever seen of Kurt Cobain looks like the “before” picture on a transition timeline.  It’s just that with him, there aren’t any after pictures.

And it’s not just the eyes, either.  The way he dressed, the whole “grunge look”.  It’s just literally egg fashion.  We dress with total disregard for our appearance or how we look because no matter what we do it’s wrong.

“Egg fashion”, egg this, egg that… isn’t it a little bit anachronistic, judging him by 2022 standards, 2022 values?

Is it?  Chuck, I was alive in 1994.  I was an 18 year old egg.  I know what that feels like.  I know what that looks like.  I lived that.  Why didn’t I come out as trans in 1994?  Because I didn’t have the opportunity.  Because self-determination needs to be informed, and none of us were.  None of us.  Look.  You know what he said to Melody Maker in 1991?  “I knew I was different. I thought that I might be gay or something because I couldn't identify with any of the guys at all.”  That’s what he said.

Holy shit.  Really?

Really.  September 14, 1991.

Hold on, let me look that up.  Oh, yeah, I see it.  Look, if you look at the full quote he’s just saying he’s not a jock.  Like he didn’t fit in with the jocks. 

Well, what about the dresses?

What dresses?

Kurt Cobain wore a lot of dresses.  Like, a lot, both onstage and off.  On MTV in 1991, he said “It’s ‘Headbanger’s Ball’ so I thought I’d wear a gown.”  He said in a 1993 interview, “I personally like to wear dresses.  I wear them around the house sometimes.”  This is not some shameful secret he kept hidden from the world.  He was open about this.  He was proud about this.

Yeah, but… it’s just clothes.

Except it’s not just clothes.  Listen to his songs.  Listen to his lyrics.  “Should have been a son”.  “I’m a lady, can you save me?”  “Everyone is gay.”  The original lyrics to “All Apologies” from his journals – “Boys write songs for girls.  Let me grow some breasts.”

I mean they’re song lyrics.  There are all kinds of ways to interpret song lyrics.

Sure.  All kinds of ways.  You ever read Michael Azerrad’s biography of Cobain, Come As You Are?

Nope.

Azerrad spent weeks talking to Cobain.  He was Cobain’s biographer, but also his friend.  And he has his own interpretation of the lyrics.  For instance, Azerrad talks about all the lyrics about guns, and to me, now, I look at that, and I think of how he died, but Azerrad, when Kurt was alive, he looked at it another way.  He thought it’s about dicks.  “To paraphrase Dr. Freud,” he says, “sometimes a gun is just a gun.  But not this time.”  He talks about “Come As You Are”, where Kurt keeps singing “I swear I don’t have a gun.”  That’s not my interpretation.  That’s never been my interpretation.  That’s what this cis man says.  More than one cis man.  Kurt says Dave Grohl’s dad, he said the same thing.  Yeah.  There are all kinds of ways to interpret lyrics.

“By this time,” Azerrad wrote, “one begins to wonder how Kurt rationalizes being a man at all.  His first response is revealing.  ‘I don’t know,’ he says.  ‘Castration.’”  I don’t wonder how Kurt rationalizes being a man.  I rationalized “being a man” in all kinds of ways.  What strikes me is that he needed to rationalize being a man.  Had to come up with some kind of excuse.  It just strikes me kind of funny.

Kurt’s songs have meanings.   The lyrics to “In Bloom”, Kurt was pretty explicit about that.  The lyrics he wrote have meanings.  “Heart-Shaped Box”.  You know what that refers to?  When Courtney Love was flirting with Kurt, Michael Azerrad says in Come As You Are, “She gave Dave (Grohl) a package to give to Kurt – little sea shells and miniature teacups and a tiny doll, all packed into a small heart-shaped box.”  A tiny doll locked away inside a box shaped like a heart.  That was what I felt like before I came out.  A tiny phantom doll.  Kurt and Courtney first kissed after a show at the Cabaret Metro in Chicago.  Rumor was that they fucked against the bar, but they denied it.  What actually happened, Azerrad says, is that “Courtney had a bag of lingerie with her for some reason and Kurt ended up modeling the contents.”  And then they went to Kurt’s hotel room and they fucked.

You’re making it sound…

Maybe it was.  Because you look at that and you think that if it was like that, it was perverted and wrong, because that’s what you were told, that it’s a sick fetish thing, and I look at it and it isn’t.  To me, that’s normal.  That Kurt Cobain was sexually aroused while wearing Courtney Love’s lingerie, that’s normal.

Kate, he was a punk!  He hated jocks, and wearing a dress pissed off jocks, so he wore dresses.  He talked about wanting to wear a dress and piss on a redneck A&R man’s desk!  You think that was some kind of sex thing?

Sexuality is part of being a woman.  Part.  Rage – and Kurt Cobain had a lot of rage inside him – that’s another part.  Am I interpreting, am I looking at things from my perspective as a trans woman?  Yes, certainly, just like you’re interpreting, looking at it from your perspective as a cis man.  When cis people interpret things, their conclusion is never “they were trans”.  Never.

Ed Wood wasn’t a trans woman.  He was just a transvestite.  He was a man.

Pete Burns from Dead or Alive wasn’t a trans woman.  Sure, he got all sorts of feminizing surgeries, but he never said he was a woman.  Man.

Prince Nelson adopted a female persona, feminized his voice, and recorded a song about wanting to be a woman's girlfriend, but he was also a Christian and believed that being queer was wicked and sinful, and that's the identity of his we need to respect.  Man.

Richard Wright, who wrote the Phish song “Halley’s Comet”, spent most of the 1980s telling everyone he knew he was a transsexual lesbian named Nancy, but after being consistently treated like shit changed his mind about that, so none of that counts for anything.  Man.

Dave Carter was on HRT when he died, but he was just questioning.  He didn’t tell anybody for sure that he was a woman.  Man.

Quentin Crisp said just before he died that if he was younger, he absolutely would have transitioned, but wanting to transition isn’t the same as actually transitioning.  Man.

All men.  Always, always men, whatever they do, whatever they say.  I know how that works.  I was told all these same things about myself for decades, all these same reasons, and now, I don’t know, I guess people will make a personal exception for me, but for everybody else, the same old assumptions, the same old arguments, they still apply.  They’re still legitimate.

I thought we were talking about Kurt Cobain.

And the only way to do that is to talk about him in isolation.  There’s no larger context to consider, no bigger picture.  I can’t really know.  I can’t really judge.

I mean, everybody else does.  I guess I can’t tell you not to.  But all of this circumstantial evidence, all of the dresses and the lyrics that you I guess know the real meaning of – none of that makes him a girl.

Sure.  And nothing can make him a girl.  Because he’s dead.  Because he killed himself.

Oh, here we go.  After thirty years and countless speculation, you have at last uncovered the real reason Kurt Cobain killed himself – gender dysphoria.  Do you have a book deal yet?

Working on it.  And yes, people say a lot of stupid things about Cobain’s death, like it’s this big shock that this guy who hated himself and wanted to die killed himself.

Right.  He was pretty well-known for being a heroin addict, which isn’t exactly something that improves one’s quality of life.

Sure, but why did he start heroin?

I don’t know.  Why does anybody start heroin?

To help him cope with his eating disorder.

Wait, what?  Eating disorder?

You don’t know about that?  He had stomach problems, for a long, long time.  He could only eat certain kinds of food, certain kinds of food that wouldn’t make his stomach hurt.  Doctors looked but they could never find any organic cause for it.  Nobody took it seriously.  So he self-medicated with heroin.  “It was my choice,” he told Azerrad.  “I don’t regret it at all because it was such a relief from not having stomach pain every day.”  I know, though.  Lots of cis guys have eating disorders.  Doesn’t mean anything.

Kate there’s a lot of interpreting going on here.

Yeah, I guess there is.  Is that necessarily a bad thing, though?  Is that necessarily wrong?  Like.  You’ve seen The Matrix, right?

Only the first one.

Yeah, that’s fine.  So you know how important The Matrix is to a lot of trans women, right?

Yes, but I’m not really sure why.  Just seems like a retelling of Plato’s “Allegory of the Cave” with extra fight scenes.

It’s pretty trans, though, right?

Clearly.  It was directed by two trans women.

And trans women who watch it – eggs or otherwise – find their own lives and experiences reflected in it in ways that cis people, like you, don’t.

I guess, but the fact that it was actually made by two trans women carries a little more weight with me.

OK, but what if the Wachowskis had died in 2000?  In, like… a car crash or something?  Does that mean The Matrix isn’t a trans film?

Well, no, because it’s still a film made by two trans women.

A film made by two trans women that speaks to the trans experience, and that is recognized by living trans women as speaking specifically to the trans experience.  The only difference is that, in this scenario, nobody knows the Wachowski Sisters are trans women.  And we can’t prove it.  We can’t possibly prove it, and nobody is going to just believe us when we say it’s a trans movie, that the Wachowskis were trans women, because they didn’t say it, they didn’t say the special magic words.  Self-determination.  You know what self-determination meant to Kurt Cobain?  I remember seeing Courtney Love on television reading his note, I remember her interrupting to say that he was an asshole, that what he was saying was bullshit.  She didn’t respect his self-determination.

Um…

“Pennyroyal Tea”.  Cobain told Azerrad “It's a cleansing theme where I’m trying to get all my bad evil spirits out of me and drinking Pennyroyal tea would cleanse that away.”  Pennyroyal is an abortifacient – but, Azerrad notes, only in lethal doses. 

Hell, not just that song.  The whole album.  In Utero.  The collage on the back cover, the one Cobain described to Azerrad as “Sex and woman and In Utero and vaginas and birth and death".  The occult symbols surrounding it, taken from Barbara G. Walker’s The Woman's Dictionary of Symbols and Sacred Objects1.  There was something inside Kurt Cobain, something inside him waiting to be born, but he was told, over and over, that it was a monster, so he killed it, the only way he could.  By killing himself.

That could have been me.  That could so easily have been me.  I was told all the same things he was.  We all were.  When I was 27?  When I was 27, I was addicted to benzos, benzos they prescribed me because I was trying to bury, trying to kill this thing, this thing I had inside of me.  I was a zombie.  Walking dead.  When I quit, I quit cold turkey.  Nobody told me about the withdrawal syndrome.  Nobody told me it could have killed me.  And if it had, everybody would remember me, everybody would think of me, as a cis man.  Forever.  They would perpetuate the Lie.  That’s why I transitioned, why I chose to go through all the shit I went through.  The writer and musician Margaret Killjoy, in 2017 she talked about what she went through the day before she came out:

“All I could think was: ‘Oh god, I don’t want to die a boy.’”2

I felt the same way, came out for the same reason.  I figured no matter what I did, I was dead.  I didn’t do it live, but to at least have an honest death.  I genuinely believed transition would kill me.

It didn’t, though!  You’re alive and you’re beautiful and I’m so, so glad for that.  It didn’t kill you.

It could have.  Still could.  Transition has helped, has made it easier­ for me, but it’s not that way with everyone.  People have been kind to me, in ways that they aren’t kind to other trans women.  Others of us… aren’t so lucky.

Who are we respecting, exactly, by remaining silent about our shared experiences, our shared perspectives, things we see that you fucking don’t, that you can’t see?  Of course I can’t prove it.  I can’t prove that I’m trans.  You can’t prove that you’re cis.  Cis people, though, cis people never have to prove anything.  Their prejudices are the null hypothesis3.  If I was to go out there and say that Kurt Cobain was a cisgender man, would anybody say I was wrong?  Would anybody object or complain?  Even though my saying that is an anachronism, is meaningless.  The word, the concept, it literally didn’t exist when Cobain died.  Have you ever heard the word “agnotology”?

No?

It means making a false claim to ignorance.  Claiming that we don’t know something that we do.  That we can’t know something that we can.  We know things now, Chuck.  We know what the symptoms of gender dysphoria are.  We know what it does to people.  How eggs think.  How eggs act.  How eggs die.  But we pretend we don’t.  We still pretend.  We pretend suicide is an individual act, even when we know it’s not, that the reasons for it are wholly personal.  We pretend that when someone dies by suicide, their reasons for doing so die with them.  And they don’t, Chuck.  We’re still dying, still dying for the same reasons Kurt Cobain did.  It’s not just that we aren’t allowed to recognize ourselves.  We aren’t allowed to recognize each other.  Individual choice or social contagion.  Those are the options we’re given.  And neither of them are right.  Neither of them are who we are.

Kurt Cobain wrote, thought, talked, died like eggs do.  I don’t care if he never said the magic fucking words.  We know our own.  We recognize each other.  And if someone is alive?  If someone is alive I will go my whole life without ever breathing a word.  Because as long as we’re alive, we do choose, and that means we can choose ignorance.  What I think, what I want, for someone else, for us, it doesn’t matter.  I do that, I follow that code, for the benefit of one person – the egg themselves.  Once they die, all bets are off.  Omerta no longer applies.  Kayfabe no longer applies.

To be queer is to be erased, to experience erasure.  I still hear straight men arguing, as if they have any right to argue, as if they know, that Emily Dickinson was not a lesbian.  Emily Dickinson!  I’m supposed to listen to people who say this shit?  I’m supposed to take them seriously when they say well, actually, calling Dickinson a “lesbian” is historically anachronistic, we can’t apply the standards of the present to the past, and Jesus fuck have you read her letters?  She liked girls.  She really liked girls.  Kurt Cobain was a trans woman.  Kurt Cobain was every bit as much a trans woman as Emily Dickinson was a lesbian.  Refusing to say it isn’t “respect”.  It’s perpetuating the crime perpetrated against Cobain, against every other trans woman who ever killed herself because of the lies we were told about ourselves.  No more.  Kurt Cobain was a trans woman.  I can’t, as an individual, say that.  I don’t have the right.  No trans woman can say that, individually.  But collectively?  All of us together?  The things we see in each other, we see those things in him too.  Not all of them, and not all of us.  Absolutely not all of us.  But enough of us.  Enough that we have the right.  We have the right, and I will fucking say it, and if you don’t like that, you can go fuck yourself.

Kate, are you ok?

I’m fine.

Do you want a hug?

Fuck you, Chuck.

OK, well.  I’m, uh.  Gonna go to the other room.  You should, uh.  Drink some water.  Stay hydrated.  Love you, Kate.

Love you too, Chuck.  Sorry.

Shhh.  It’s OK, Kate.  It’s OK.

1 Diane Purkiss criticizes the occult nature of Walker’s encyclopedia in "Women's Rewriting of Myth", in Carolyne Larrington (ed), The Feminist Companion to Mythology, London, 1992, p. 444: “In Donna Haraway's influential terms, these women may wish to be goddesses, but they are cyborgs all the same”. The work she’s referencing is Haraway’s “A Cyborg Manifesto”.  Haraway was, it happens, an academic advisor to the trans woman Sandy Stone, and her “Cyborg Manifesto” was a pivotal influence on Stone’s “The Empire Strikes Back: A Post-Transsexual Manifesto”, one of the foundational works of transgender theory.

Avatar
missroserose

Adding @prince-of-elsinore’s tags for truth

Avatar

HERE’S THE THING THOUGH

I used to work for a call center and I was doing a political survey and I called this number that was randomly generated for me and the way our system worked was voice-activated so when the other person said hello you’d get connected to them, so I just launch right into my “Harvard University and NPR blah blah blah” thing and then there’s this long pause and I think the person’s hung up even though I didn’t hear a click

And then I hear “you shouldn’t be able to call this number.”

So I apologize and go into the preset spiel about because we aren’t selling anything, etc. etc. and the answer I get is

“No, I know that. What I mean is that it should be impossible for you to call this number, and I need to know how you got it.”

I explain that it’s randomly generated and I’m very sorry for bothering him, and go to hang up. And before I can click terminate, I hear:

“Ma’am, this is a matter of national security.”

I accidentally called the director of the FBI.

My job got investigated because a computer randomly spit out a number to the Pentagon.

This is my new favourite story.

When I was in college I got a job working for a company that manages major air-travel data. It was a temp gig working their out of date system while they moved over to a new one, since my knowing MS Dos apparently made me qualified.

There was no MS Dos involved. Instead, there was a proprietary type-based OS and an actually-uses-transistors refrigerator-sized computer with switches I had to trip at certain times during the night as I watched the data flow from six pm to six AM on Fridays and weekends. If things got stuck, I reset the server. 

The company handled everything from low-end data (hotel and car reservations) to flight plans and tower information. I was weighed every time I came in to make sure it was me. Areas of the building had retina scanners on doors. 

During training. they took us through all the procedures. Including the procedures for the red phone. There was, literally, a red phone on the shelf above my desk. “This is a holdover from the cold war.” They said. “It isn’t going to come up, but here’s the deal. In case of nuclear war or other nation-wide disaster, the phone will ring. Pick up the phone, state your name and station, and await instructions. Do whatever you are told.”

So my third night there, it’s around 2am and there’s a ringing sound. 

I look up, slowly. The Red phone is ringing.

So I reach out, I pick up the phone. I give my name and station number. And I hear every station head in the building do the exact same. One after another, voices giving names and numbers. Then silence for the space of two breaths. Silence broken by…

“Uh… Is Shantavia there?”

It turns out that every toll free, 1-900 or priority number has a corresponding local number that it routs to at its actual destination. Some poor teenage girl was trying to dial a friend of hers, mixed up the numbers, and got the atomic attack alert line for a major air-travel corporation’s command center in the mid-west United States.

There’s another pause, and the guys over in the main data room are cracking up. The overnight site head is saying “I think you have the wrong number, ma’am.” and I’m standing there having faced the specter of nuclear annihilation before I was old enough to legally drink.

The red phone never rang again while I was there, so the people doing my training were only slightly wrong in their estimation of how often the doomsday phone would ring. 

Avatar
arctic-hands

Every time I try to find this story, I end up having to search google with a variety of terms that I’m sure have gotten me flagged by some watchlist, so I’m reblogging it again where I swear I’ve reblogged it before.

Avatar
voroxpete

But none of these stories even come close to the best one of them all; a wrong number is how the NORAD Santa Tracker got started.

Seriously, this is legit.

In December 1955, Sears decided to run a Santa hotline.  Here’s the ad they posted.

Only problem is, they misprinted the number.  And the number they printed?  It went straight through to fucking NORAD.  This was in the middle of the Cold War, when early warning radar was the only thing keeping nuclear annihilation at bay.  NORAD was the front line.

And it wasn’t just any number at NORAD.  Oh no no no.

Terri remembers her dad had two phones on his desk, including a red one. “Only a four-star general at the Pentagon and my dad had the number,” she says.
“This was the ‘50s, this was the Cold War, and he would have been the first one to know if there was an attack on the United States,” Rick says.
The red phone rang one day in December 1955, and Shoup answered it, Pam says. “And then there was a small voice that just asked, ‘Is this Santa Claus?’ ”
His children remember Shoup as straight-laced and disciplined, and he was annoyed and upset by the call and thought it was a joke — but then, Terri says, the little voice started crying.
“And Dad realized that it wasn’t a joke,” her sister says. “So he talked to him, ho-ho-ho’d and asked if he had been a good boy and, ‘May I talk to your mother?’ And the mother got on and said, ‘You haven’t seen the paper yet? There’s a phone number to call Santa. It’s in the Sears ad.’ Dad looked it up, and there it was, his red phone number. And they had children calling one after another, so he put a couple of airmen on the phones to act like Santa Claus.”
“It got to be a big joke at the command center. You know, ‘The old man’s really flipped his lid this time. We’re answering Santa calls,’ ” Terri says.

And then, it got better.

“The airmen had this big glass board with the United States on it and Canada, and when airplanes would come in they would track them,” Pam says.
“And Christmas Eve of 1955, when Dad walked in, there was a drawing of a sleigh with eight reindeer coming over the North Pole,” Rick says.
“Dad said, ‘What is that?’ They say, ‘Colonel, we’re sorry. We were just making a joke. Do you want us to take that down?’ Dad looked at it for a while, and next thing you know, Dad had called the radio station and had said, ‘This is the commander at the Combat Alert Center, and we have an unidentified flying object. Why, it looks like a sleigh.’ Well, the radio stations would call him like every hour and say, ‘Where’s Santa now?’ ” Terri says.

For real.

“And later in life he got letters from all over the world, people saying, ‘Thank you, Colonel,’ for having, you know, this sense of humor. And in his 90s, he would carry those letters around with him in a briefcase that had a lock on it like it was top-secret information,” she says. “You know, he was an important guy, but this is the thing he’s known for.”
“Yeah,” Rick [his son] says, “it’s probably the thing he was proudest of, too.”

So yeah.  I think that might be the best wrong number of all time.

No okay THAT is adorable and I’m queueing this for next December.

Avatar

Okay, let me tell you a story:

Once upon a time, there was a prose translation of the Pearl Poet’s Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. It was wonderfully charming and lyrical and perfect for use in a high school, and so a clever English teacher (as one did in the 70s) made a scan of the book for her students, saved it as a pdf, and printed copies off for her students every year. In true teacher tradition, she shared the file with her colleagues, and so for many years the students of the high school all studied Sir Gawain and the Green Knight from the same (very badly scanned) version of this wonderful prose translation.

In time, a new teacher became head of the English Department, and while he agreed that the prose translation was very wonderful he felt that the quality of the scan was much less so. Also in true teacher tradition, he then spent hours typing up the scan into a word processor, with a few typos here and there and a few places where he was genuinely just guessing wildly at what the scan actually said. This completed word document was much cleaner and easier for the students to read, and so of course he shared it with his colleagues, including his very new wide-eyed faculty member who was teaching British Literature for the first time (this was me).

As teachers sometimes do, he moved on for greener (ie, better paying) pastures, leaving behind the word document, but not the original pdf scan. This of course meant that as I was attempting to verify whether a weird word was a typo or a genuine artifact of the original translation, I had no other version to compare it to. Being a good card-holding gen zillenial I of course turned to google, making good use of the super secret plagiarism-checking teacher technique “Quotation Marks”, with an astonishing result:

By which I mean literally one result.

For my purposes, this was precisely what I needed: a very clean and crisp scan that allowed me to make corrections to my typed edition: a happily ever after, amen.

But beware, for deep within my soul a terrible Monster was stirring. Bane of procrastinators everywhere, my Curiosity had found a likely looking rabbit hole. See, this wonderfully clear and crisp scan was lacking in two rather important pieces of identifying information: the title of the book from which the scan was taken, and the name of the translator. The only identifying features were the section title “Precursors” (and no, that is not the title of the book, believe me I looked) and this little leaf-like motif by the page numbers:

(Remember the leaf. This will be important later.)

We shall not dwell at length on the hours of internet research that ensued—how the sun slowly dipped behind the horizon, grading abandoned in shadows half-lit by the the blue glow of the computer screen—how google search after search racked up, until an email warning of “unusual activity on your account” flashed into momentary existence before being consigned immediately and with some prejudice to the digital void—how one third of the way through a “comprehensive but not exhaustive” list of Sir Gawain translators despair crept in until I was left in utter darkness, screen black and eyes staring dully at the wall.

Above all, let us not admit to the fact that such an afternoon occurred not once, not twice, but three times.

Suffice to say, many hours had been spent in fruitless pursuit before a new thought crept in: if this book was so mysterious, so obscure as to defeat the modern search engine, perhaps the answer lay not in the technologies of today, but the wisdom of the past. Fingers trembling, I pulled up the last blast email that had been sent to current and former faculty and staff, and began to compose an email to the timeless and indomitable woman who had taught English to me when I was a student, and who had, after nearly fifty years, retired from teaching just before I returned to my alma mater.

After staring at the email for approximately five or so minutes, I winced, pressed send, and let my plea sail out into the void. I cannot adequately describe for you the instinctive reverence I possess towards this teacher; suffice to say that Ms English was and is a woman of remarkable character, as much a legend as an institution as a woman of flesh and blood whose enduring influence inspired countless students. There is not a student taught by Ms. English who does not have a story to tell about her, and her decline in her last years of teaching and eventual retirement in the face of COVID was the end of an era. She still remembers me, and every couple months one of her contemporaries and dear friends who still works as a guidance counsellor stops me in the hall to tell me that Ms. English says hello and that she is thrilled that I am teaching here—thrilled that I am teaching honors students—thrilled that I am now teaching the AP students. “Tell her I said hello back,” I always say, and smile.

Ms. English is a legend, and one does not expect legends to respond to you immediately. Who knows when a woman of her generation would next think to check her email? Who knows if she would remember?

The day after I sent the email I got this response:

My friends, I was shaken. I was stunned. Imagine asking God a question and he turns to you and says, “Hold on one moment, let me check with my predecessor.”

The idea that even Ms. English had inherited this mysterious translation had never even occurred to me as a possibility, not when Ms. English had been a faculty member since the early days of the school. How wonderful, I thought to myself. What a great thing, that this translation is so obscure and mysterious that it defeats even Ms. English.

A few days later, Ms. English emailed me again:

(I had, in fact searched through both the English office and the Annex—a dark, weirdly shaped concrete storage area containing a great deal of dust and many aging copies of various books—a few days prior. I had no luck, sadly.)

At last, though, I had a title and a description! I returned to my internet search, only to find to my dismay that there was no book that exactly matched the title. I found THE BRITISH TRADITION: POETRY, PROSE, AND DRAMA (which was not black and the table of contents I found did not include Sir Gawain) and THE ENGLISH TRADITION, a super early edition of the Prentice Hall textbooks we use today, which did have a black cover but there were absolutely zero images I could find of the table of contents or the interior and so I had no way of determining if it was the correct book short of laying out an unfortunate amount of cold hard cash for a potential dead end.

So I sighed, and relinquished my dreams of solving the mystery. Perhaps someday 30 years from now, I thought, I’ll be wandering through one of those mysterious bookshops filled with out of print books and I’ll pick up a book and there will be the translation, found out last!

So I sighed, and told the whole story to my colleagues for a laugh. I sent screenshots of Ms. English’s emails to my siblings who were also taught by her. I told the story to my Dad over dinner as my Great Adventure of the Week.

…my friends. I come by my rabbit-hole curiosity honestly, but my Dad is of a different generation of computer literacy and knows a few Deep Secrets that I have never learned. He asked me the title that Ms. English gave me, pulled up some mysterious catalogue site, and within ten minutes found a title card. There are apparently two copies available in libraries worldwide, one in Philadelphia and the other in British Columbia. I said, “sure, Dad,” and went upstairs. He texted me a link. Rolling my eyes, I opened it and looked at the description.

Huh, I thought. Four volumes, just like Ms. English said. I wonder…

Armed with a slightly different title and a publisher, I looked up “The English Tradition: Fiction macmillan” and the first entry is an eBay sale that had picture of the interior and LO AND BEHOLD:

THE LEAF. LOOK AT THE LEAF.

My dad found it! He found the book!!

Except for one teensy tiny problem which is that the cover of the book is uh a very bright green and not at all black like Ms. English said. Alas, it was a case of mistaken identity, because The English Tradition: Poetry does have a black cover, although it is the fiction volume which contains Sir Gawain and the Green Knight.

And so having found the book at last, I have decided to purchase it for the sum of $8, that ever after the origins of this translation may once more be known.

In this year of 2022 this adventure took place, as this post bears witness, the end, amen.

Avatar
cesperanza

OK, I don't know if anyone else was compelled to solve the mystery, but I was here in the year of our Lord 2023, and I did it in about 15 minutes. (BTW this is an advantage of being an internet old, was listening to Gretchen McCulloch earlier today and feeling my age, but fuck if I don't know my way around a computer search. :D) Anyway the translator is George B. Pace, and I found him because the same translation of Gawain was published in a different book by the same editorial trio as The English Tradition: Fiction; the book is The Early Years of English Literature. [Compiled by] M. W. Barrows ... Robert P. Bletter ... Harold M. Sullivan and its in The Internet Archive. And there, we can find this translation of Gawain was written by George B. Pace published with permission from a different textbook, English Literature: A College Anthology. Screencap attached for the purists (who I assume is anyone who read this far!)

Avatar

Are fedoras really that bad?

YES YES THEY ARE

ask-omnipony:
I don’t really believe this mumbo jumbo
I mean it’s a goddamn hat.
Right..?
The white rose, it symbolizes the unique beauty of all the women who wish not to be with a nice guy such as myse-
I wonder if this works with other kinds of hat…
Nothing ventured, nothing gained…
WHEEEN THE MOON HITS YOUR EYE LIKE A BIG PIZZA PIE THAT’S AMORREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Men of Tumblr are my favorite kind of people…
Avatar
jamesbleach

wait, does that mean?

oh boy…….

Avatar
usedtobehmc

Luckily, this nonsense doesn’t work on girls.

Observe…

IT’S GOTTEN BETTER!

This post is immaculate

It can’t be true.

And it can’t possibly work on motorcycle helmets.

I must test it.

Nothing happening so far…

Avatar
strampunch

HOLY SHIT IT WORKS

What in the world?

Oh why not? This should be interesting.

Here we go!

Were all mad here in Underland!

What the hell! Never Again!

… Actually …

One more time.

Alright, I gotta try this!

Can’t be that bad!

….

…oh my god…

LOL

This just gets better and better

This is one of my favourite things to look at

holy shit this stuff is back

The Gravity Falls one though

i wonder if it works for flower crowns?

here goes nothin-

w HAT THE

DID I JUST-

WHAT THE FUCK

Okay Clearly something is up.

Hmm… I wonder

I’m sure nothing could possibly…

HOLY SHIT

IT GOT BETTER

nukewolf

I HAVE BEEN SEARCHING SO LONG FOR THIS POST OH MY GOD!!!

I wonder what happens when you wear 8 of these at once…

Never not reblog

Avatar
ryrobsessed

IT’S ON MY DASH. ACTUALLY ON MY DASH.

Avatar
cate-geo

Oh my God, there are so many new ones

Friggin, yis

Avatar
wildishmazz

Always reblog.

IT HAS EVOLVED

The legend marches on…

BEWARE THE MAGIC OF HATS

JDNXHSBSBF

I T ‘ S  B A C K 

a classic meme from when the world was less of a tire fire

ITS ON MY BLOG YESSSS

THIS IS WONDERFUL.

time to bring back outdated memes…

what could possibly go wrong?

eww, it smells like fuckboi

welp, down this rabbit hole we go…

nothing’s happeni-

WTF-

Oh boy, this meme

I wonder if this would work with a wolf hat.

May as well try it.

Please don’t be awful, please don’t be awful, please don’t b-

get wet 4 furry

This is obviously fake

Look, I’ll prove it

Y’all are just acting

Watch and learn

WTFFFFFF

Should…… should I…….

DO IT!

Whelp guess I gotta put on the hat now

Can’t be that bad, I mean what’s the worst a squid hat can do to m-

I̖̝̪̤̠̋͞ ̛̹̱̮̳̭̓̂͑ͫ͐̎ͯ͗͝͡H͇̠͊́̚A̛̓̓҉͙̠V͍̌̏͂ͣͨͭͧ̉́E̸͙̭̣͓̓ͨͥ̿ ̽͗͗ͮ͊ͬͩͥ̚҉̪̗̝̘̟́̕A̴̴̙̝̬̪̞͂ͤͩ̍W͚̣͆ͬỎ̫̝̟͖̝͇ͥ͛ͮ͋K̨̖͓͉̺̫͉̀͗ͪ̊͌̉E͚̲̩̪̘̠͋̈͞N͉͓͕̗̱͒̔ͨͤ͛̓̂ͧ

World Heritage Post

I’ve always wanted to show this to @theforwardslash

IT WAS A CULTURAL RESET. A CULTURAL RESET. 

HAHAH

Someone call UNESCO this dinosaur of a post needs to be protected

I’m so glad it’s back to normal after that weird glitch from 2020

Avatar
meroko26us

It’s back!! 

Avatar
Avatar
prettyasapic

Every person need to be taught disability history

Not the “oh Einstein was probably autistic” or the sanitized Helen Keller story. but this history disabled people have made and has been made for us.

Teach them about Carrie Buck, who was sterilized against her will, sued in 1927, and lost because “Three generations of imbeciles [were] enough.”

Teach them about Judith Heumann and her associates, who in 1977, held the longest sit in a government building for the enactment of 504 protection passed three years earlier.

Teach them about all the Baby Does, newborns in 1980s who were born disabled and who doctors left to die without treatment, who’s deaths lead to the passing of The Baby Doe amendment to the child abuse law in 1984.

Teach them about the deaf students at Gallaudet University, a liberal arts school for the deaf, who in 1988, protested the appointment of yet another hearing president and successfully elected I. King Jordan as their first deaf president.

Teach them about Jim Sinclair, who at the 1993 international Autism Conference stood and said “don’t mourn for us. We are alive. We are real. And we’re here waiting for you.”

Teach about the disability activists who laid down in front of buses for accessible transit in 1978, crawled up the steps of congress in 1990 for the ADA, and fight against police brutality, poverty, restricted access to medical care, and abuse today.

Teach about us.

Oh! Oh! I got one! Meet Edward V. Roberts-

Ed Roberts was one of the founding minds behind the Independent Living movement. Roberts was born in 1939, and contracted polio at age 14, two years before the vaccine that ended the polio epidemic came out (vaccinate your kids). Polio left Roberts almost completely paralyzed, with only the use of two fingers and a few toes. At night, he had to sleep in an iron lung, and he would often rest there during the day as well. Other times of the day, he breathed by using his face and neck muscles to force air in and out of his lungs.

Despite this being the fifties, Roberts' mother insisted that her son continue schooling. Her support helped him face his fear of being stared at and ridiculed at school, going from thinking of himself as a "hopeless cripple" to seeing himself as a "star." When his high school tried to deny him his diploma because he had never completed driver's ed, Roberts and his mother fought the school and won.

This marked the beginning of his career as an activist.

Roberts had to fight the California Department of Vocational Rehabilitation for support to attend college, because his counselor thought he was too severely disabled to ever work or live independently. Roberts did go to school, however, first attending the College of San Marino. He was then accepted to UC Berkeley, but when the school learned that he was disabled, they tried to backtrack. "We've tried cripples before, and it didn't work," one dean famously said. The school tried to argue the dorms couldn't accommodate his iron lung, so Roberts was instead housed in an empty wing of the school's Cowell Hospital.

Roberts' admittance paved the way for other disabled students who were also housed in the new Cowell Dorm. The group called themselves "The Rolling Quads," and together they fought and advocated for better disability support, more ramps and accessible architecture like curb cut outs, founded the first formally recognized student-led disability services program in the country, and even managed to successfully oust a rehabilitation counselor who had threatened two of the Quads with expulsion for their protests.

After graduation from his master's, he served a number of other roles- he taught political science at a number of different colleges over the years, served on the board for the Center for Independent Living, confounded the World Institute on Disability with Judith E. Heumann and Joan Leon, and continued to advocate for better disability services and infrastructure at his alma mater of UC Berkeley.

Roberts also took part in and helped organize sit ins to force the federal government to enforce section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, which stated that people with disabilities should not be excluded from activities, denied the right to receive benefits, or be discriminated against, from any program that uses federal financial assistance, solely because of their disability. The sit-in occupied the offices of the Carter Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare building in San Francisco and lasted 28 days. The protestors were supported by local gay rights organizations and the Black Panthers. Roberts and other activists spoke, and their arguments were so compelling that members of the department of health joined the sit in. Reagan was forced to acknowledge and implement the policies and rules that section 504 required. This national recognition helped to pave the way for the Americans with Disabilities Act in 1990.

Roberts died of cardiac arrest in 1995 at the age of 54, leaving behind a proud legacy of advocacy and activism. Not bad for a "hopeless cripple" whose rehab counselor thought he was too disabled to ever work.

Avatar
egg-squid

Here is a great online course for disability history!!

Avatar
cwipple

“Black Panthers saved the 504 sit-in.” – Corbett O’Toole, participant in the 1977 504 protest in San Francisco

”Along with all fair and good-thinking people, The Black Panther Party gives its full support to Section 504 of the 1973 Rehabilitation Act and calls for President Carter and HEW Secretary Califano to sign guidelines for its implementation as negotiated and agreed to on January 21 of this year. The issue here is human rights – rights of meaningful employment, of education, of basic human survival – of an oppressed minority, the disabled and handicapped. Further, we deplore the treatment accorded to the occupants of the fourth floor and join with them in full solidarity.” – Black Panther Party media release on the protest, from website Disability Social History (click thru to see pictures of BPP news about the success of the protest!)
According to disability rights activist Corbett O’Toole, these advocates “showed us what being an ally could be. We would never have succeeded without them. They are a critical part of disability history and yet their story is almost never told.⁠”
They were running a soup kitchen for their black community in East Oakland and they showed up every single night and brought us dinner. The FBI [guarding the building entrance] was like, “What the hell are you doing?” They answered, “Listen, we’re the Panthers. You want to starve these people out, fine, we’ll go tell the media that that’s what you’re doing, and we’ll show up with our guns to match your guns and we’ll talk about who’s going to talk to who about the food. Otherwise, just let us feed these people and we won’t give you any trouble” – and that’s basically what they did.

Please read up on the Black Panthers' involvement in the 504 movement, they were integral to the occupation lasting as long as it did and were INCREDIBLY ACTIVE PARTICIPANTS! They are more than a footnote in that part of disability history, and I want more people to know this part of their legacy!

Read about Bradley Lomax (and his aid and fellow organizer Chuck Johnson, who I've struggled finding sources on outside of articles on Mr. Lomax :( ) here and here! Together the two were integral in bringing Black Panther Party organizing and activism to the disability rights movement!

I wish there were more information on Mr. Johnson, as his work is dear to my heart as someone who also requires caregiving. ;3; <3 Considering how little information there even was available online for Mr. Lomax just ten years ago I am hoping we get more coverage of Mr. Johnson's contributions to this important part of disability history sooner rather than later. I do not want his activism ignored!

Do not let the full richness of our history be whitewashed! The Black Panthers kept the protestors fed, they HEAVILY publicized the protests in their paper The Black Panther and agitated on the protest and protestors behalf, and paid organizers' way to Washington to pressure the HEW secretary to actually sign the damn act. In turn, the Panthers did this because the Oakland ILC did outreach to them, and helped Mr. Lomax with transportation. This is solidarity buried under focus on the white organizers. Please please please cherish it. Keep it close to your heart, read about it, celebrate it, share it!

Obviously there were more Panthers who helped but I have already lost the first draft of this and I'm starting to fade -- here's two more detailed sources to read for more, and I highly recommend you do!

Avatar
lastoneout

Sorry to add to an already long post, but re: the sanitized history of Hellen Keller, I highly recommend this video:

It's not perfect, and the creator openly admits that at the beginning, but it does a really good job of bringing issues around disability to light AND tackles the absolutely abhorrent way misinformation spreads online.

Avatar
Avatar
keanuquotes

The Enduring Appeal of Keanu Reeves He battles evildoers in 'John Wick 4,' manufactures two-wheel pieces of art, and is worshiped by the internet, but Keanu Reeves swears he's just a normal guy. And he’s got the scars to prove it. Ky HendersonMar 15, 2023 9:00 AM EDT It’s easy to look cool when you’re riding a motorcycle, but it’s hard to look cooler than Keanu Reeves on a brisk, sunny afternoon in Los Angeles. He rests his left hand on his thigh and steers with his right, which gooses the throttle as he weaves around slow drivers. He wears a form-fitting black canvas motorcycle jacket that accentuates how trim he is—even more fit than he appears on-screen—and a beat-up Shoei helmet. He leaves the visor up, choosing instead to shield his eyes with sunglasses the Terminator might wear to a Hamptons garden party. Reeves looks at home and at ease on a motorcycle. He looks cool.

At a gas station stop, he suggests switching bikes. We’re each riding cruisers made by Arch, the motorcycle company Reeves co-founded with designer Gard Hollinger in 2011. The company produces high-end, highly personalized production bikes; I’m on a 1s, the company’s new $100,000+ sport cruiser. Reeves is on an older model, KRGT-1, but it’s his personal Arch, a true one-of-a-kind. It's the only Arch ever painted YK Blue, a color Reeves and Hollinger commissioned based on the ultramarine pigment famously mixed by mid-century French artist Yves Klein. Reeves says all that’s left of the paint is in a tiny can stored somewhere at Arch in case the bike’s paint ever needs touch-ups.

Which it most certainly would if, let’s say, some idiot were to put the bike down in front of a horrified Reeves while riding down the Pacific Coast Highway. Thankfully, there’ll be no lowsides today. Although the bike is beefy, with a 2,032cc V-twin powerplant, it’s easy to maneuver and comfy as a BarcaLounger.

Keanu Reeves stands in motorcycle factory holding blue mug Brian Bowen Smith

Reeves eventually leads us back to Arch’s factory building, which is nondescript from the outside but artfully decorated inside using shipping containers to separate working areas. Metal fabrication is done behind one; customer bikes are lined up in another with technicians hard at work. After Reeves dips outside for a cigarette—the 58-year-old both looks like a much younger man and smokes with the frequent abandon of one—he leads us to a small conference room.

“I like meeting people, but I’m a little reserved,” he warns as he settles into an office chair, looking far less comfortable than he did on a motorcycle. “How much of my private life do I want to talk about? I don’t know. Otherwise, let’s hang out.”

When Reeves was growing up in the Yorkville neighborhood of Toronto, he was consumed with existential thoughts. He discussed death a lot more than the average 11-year-old, for instance—but not because he wanted to die. He just wanted answers to big questions. Perhaps not entirely unrelated to his interest in mortality, he was also obsessed with the biker gangs that periodically motored into the neighborhood. It wasn't pods of dentists letting loose on weekends. It was leathers, patches, menace—the whole deal. And Reeves loved it.

“They looked exotic,” Reeves says. "They looked to me like they were free. Plus the bikes were cool and sounded great.”

Despite his childhood fascination, Reeves was in his early 20s before he first rode a motorcycle. It happened at a movie studio in Berlin—where else?—when he saw a woman on an off-road enduro bike in a parking lot. He approached her and asked if she’d teach him to ride, which she agreed to on the spot. (If you’re wondering why a woman would do that for a total stranger, search “Keanu Reeves in the 80s” in Google Images.)

Not long after he got back to Los Angeles, he bought a 1973 Mk2a Norton Commando, having long admired the classic brand. That bike currently sits in the Arch shop, which is notable for two reasons: One, few longtime riders are lucky enough to be able to hold onto their first bike. Two, over the years Reeves has…suffered some mishaps.

“Yeah, I’ve fallen off a few times,” he admits of the accidents he’s had on a variety of bikes. He takes a swig of water, then corrects himself. “Not ‘fallen off.’ Crashed. I’ve got a couple of hit-by-cars. A couple of going-too-fast. I’ve laid a couple of bikes down but I was riding in the winter, so that’s not really ‘crashing.’ That’s about it. The usual stuff.”

He’s broken ribs, knocked out teeth, sliced his leg open so deep that bone was visible. His most spectacular accident occurred in 1988, only a couple years after that day in Berlin. Reeves was riding alone at night in Malibu’s Topanga Canyon when he took one of the twisties too fast. By the time he came to a stop, he was lying on the pavement wondering if he was about to die. As you know, he didn’t—but he did fuck himself up pretty bad.

“I ruptured my spleen,” he says matter-of-factly. The widely reported version of the story goes that he needed the organ removed, but Reeves says it’s still intact. “They sutured it up and put a Band-Aid on.” He has a gnarly scar running vertically from his sternum down to his belly button, but in the right light it just ends up accentuating his abs because, well, he’s Keanu.

Reeves first met Hollinger through a mutual acquaintance about two decades after that crash, when Reeves wanted a custom sissy bar—basically, a backrest for a passenger—added to his 2005 Harley Davidson Dyna. Hollinger, who at that point was a relatively well-known, well-respected customizer with his own small LA shop, wasn’t interested.

“I knew I could build him the world’s most expensive sissy bar,” Hollinger says, “but I also knew it wouldn’t be satisfying for either of us.”

Instead, Hollinger spent the next five years completely reimagining the bike. He’d work in spurts, changing or adding something, then handing the bike back over to Reeves for months. By the time the bike was finished, Hollinger says, about the only parts of the original Dyna still remaining were the engine and the serial number on the chassis. Today that bike—a chromed-out ride fit for Mad Max—is displayed in the shop, the inspiration for what eventually became Arch.

Keanu Reeves on motorcycle wearing black canvas jacket and sunglasses Brian Bowen Smith

Eventually being the key word. When, during the long process of modding the bike, Reeves first suggested to Hollinger that the two team up to start a motorcycle company, Hollinger didn’t have to think about his answer.

“I knew what a tough business it is, what a challenge it would be—and that it would not be a great investment,” Hollinger, now 63, says with a laugh. “It was a wonderful motorcycle I built and it was wonderful getting to know Keanu, but starting a motorcycle company sounded like a horrible idea.”

Reeves didn’t relent. As the pair became better friends—and as the motorcycle continued to take shape—they’d have long conversations about the realities of starting the company. Hollinger would show up to their discussions with pages of questions written on a legal pad, but what gradually eroded his hesitation was the thoughtfulness with which Reeves described the experience of riding a motorcycle.

Finally, nearly convinced, Hollinger asked Reeves to boil everything down to one reason why they should do something as seemingly crazy as starting a motorcycle company. The actor came up with it on the spot—a reason Hollinger immediately understood, which allowed him to envision the company and its worth as an opportunity to do something meaningful and long-lasting.

“Because,” Reeves told him, channeling the mortality-obsessed 11-year-old kid gawking at dudes on motorcycles, “we’re going to die.”

Related: 2023 Arch 1s Sport Cruiser Is the American (V-twin) Dream

There have been many jokes made over the years about Reeves being a dummy, but after spending about 8 seconds with the guy it’s obvious he’s keenly intelligent. I mention that I read lots of sci-fi and fantasy books as a kid, which prompts him to ask whether I have opinions on several titles, followed by recommendations to read several others.

Thing is, his idiosyncratic public persona—which is sort of like Ted (not Bill) if Ted were a little more shy and a much better dresser—isn’t an act. Reeves isn’t trying to fool his critics or fans. And he isn’t really putting on an act in an attempt to prevent people from knowing who he is. He’s just this very singular, introspective, likable person who happened to become a pop culture icon.

All of that said? He can be pretty goofy. His physical mannerisms are sometimes at odds with what he’s saying, like he’s being controlled by feuding puppeteers. He speaks haltingly, stopping and starting and stopping again, often all in the same sentence, as he considers what exactly he wants to say or, just as likely, what he doesn’t want to say. More than once over the course of an afternoon he giggles—yes, giggles—at something he says or thinks, placing his cupped hand over his mouth like a theatrical school child hiding laughter; the gesture is as strange as it is endearing. He's somehow both laconic and verbose, calm and keyed up.

Although Reeves has long been known as “The internet’s boyfriend,” he’s currently dating—sorry, internet—acclaimed visual artist Alexandra Grant. The pair first collaborated on the 2011 book Ode to Happiness after having known each other previously; in the following years they collaborated on other projects and co-founded the small book imprint X Artists’ Books. Their romantic relationship began about five years ago but only became public knowledge two years in, when they arrived at a red carpet event together.

When asked about Grant, Reeves leans back in his chair as though trying to put both metaphorical and literal distance between himself and the idea of discussing his personal life.

So, uh, maybe it’s best to make it about bikes: What’s Grant’s opinion of Reeves’ (occasionally injurious) motorcycle fixation?

“She used to have a motorcycle, so she’s fine with it,” Reeves says. Then he pauses, as he so often does, seemingly considering whether to say anything more. “She hasn’t ridden in a while.”

Despite his lifelong love of bikes, Reeves hasn’t ridden them much in his movies. There’s a brief scene in the landmark 1991 indie film My Own Private Idaho. There’s some riding in 1996’s Chain Reaction, including one scene in which he manages to outrun an exploding hydrogen reactor. He’s technically on a bike in John Wick 3 while battling bad guys, but that was all done while stationary in front of a green screen. He has no interest in shoehorning Arches into his movies, though a couple of Arches are featured in the futuristic 2020 video game Cyberpunk 2077, in which he also played a major role.

Reeves says there’s a brief motorcycle scene in the upcoming John Wick 4, a movie whose eventual existence might have been laughed at when the original film debuted. Despite the series’ current status as an unstoppable franchise juggernaut, it originally wasn’t even planned as a franchise—and it certainly didn’t appear destined to be one after John Wick received a somewhat tepid theatrical reception in 2014.

“It had some success in the theater, but it really became more popular in second viewings,” Reeves says. “So the studio asked if we wanted to do another one.”

Reeves does more than just kick unbelievable amounts of ass in the movies; he’s also had a hand in plotting out the sequels. The genesis of the third and fourth installments, he says, took place while he and director Chad Stahelski were on the road promoting the second and third movies, respectively.

“Generally, Chad and I cook ’em up while we’re doing press tours,” Reeves says. “We talk about what we’d do next if the current film does well. I’m like, ‘I want to ride a horse and do a horse chase!’ And Chad says, ‘Yeah, we can do it in Central Park!’”

Reeves says he doesn’t know what comes next for him, but John Wick 5 will almost certainly be an option—if he wants to do it. He’s currently developing a TV series, and maybe he’ll make the motorcycle road movie he’s long thought about making. He’ll also no doubt continue riding bikes and growing Arch because he loves doing both.

He says he may continue BRZRKR, the comic series he co-writes. He won’t stop helping others via his philanthropy (he declines to discuss other than to say it’s “in health and the arts”). And he’ll burnish his already-glowing reputation as, in his words, “a pretty respectful and considerate person,” because that’s how he likes to treat people.

“I’m just,” Reeves says as his mouth curls into a smirk and his arms shoot out in front of him as though he’s pleading to be believed, “a normal guy.”

via keanuworld

Avatar
Avatar
catchymemes

This was so satisfying 

Avatar

Weird question of the day: so what is terfs’ actual endgame?

Like I know the middle game is “everyone identifies with their assigned sex and no one modifies their body in ways that alter secondary sex characteristics.” But then what?

They say they’re feminists, so that would imply the actual endgame isn’t just “the destruction of the transcult” but the end of patriarchy.

But how is everyone identifying with their asab and not modifying their body supposed to do that?

It’s very Underpants Gnomes.

  1. Recruit trans people who doubt.
  2. Destroy the transcult!
  3. …..
  4. End patriarchy!

?????

Steel-man-y answer, from what I can glean as someone who intuitively ‘gets’ some radfem talking points that seem to really confuse others.

1) They view trans women the same way black activists view Rachel Dolezal. Someone who is ‘playing’ at being a member of an oppressed class they aren’t actually a member of, and directly mocking or profiting off that class by extension. Being a trans woman, under this view, is sexist in and of itself. 

(Of course, this ignores the fact that many axes of oppression can be moved into and out of. There is zero reason why misogyny can only exist as an oppression axis if it has fixed, lifelong ‘membership’. By that logic, ableism wouldn’t exist, as not everyone affected by it was born disabled. Also, you have to ignore trans women’s actual reports of their experiences, how little trans women profit socially from transition on average etc.) 

2) A lot of them believe trans-ness is just a result of misogyny, and gender norms being forced on people. Trans men, in their view, are created when young girls get told they can’t do/like a certain thing unless they’re a boy, and therefore decide they need to try and become a boy in order to continue being themselves. They aren’t really boys, and in a world with true gender equality, would happily identify with their ASAB. Therefore, trans-ness is nothing but a symptom of sexism and homophobia, and preventing it is also preventing those things.

(The fact that gender dysphoria has never been shown to be treated using purely therapeutic methods gets kind of hand waved away here.) 

(Also, this belief is clearly untrue if you’ve like… ever spoken to a trans person outside an online shouting match. But if you haven’t, or are a detransitioned person for whom “I internalised a fuckton of misogyny” actually was your experience, it can look reasonable. I have seen a lot of people in the latter group basically fall into a typical-minding trap where, because they weren’t really a man, no trans men are really men.) 

3) They see sex and gender solely as externally-opposed forces designed to hurt and restrict women, and feel they won’t be able to end the harm if the ‘man’ and ‘woman’ classes are muddied, blurred or concealed in any way. See: the way they cherry-pick stories about trans woman sex offenders, and use them to argue that they’re skewing statistics and making sex crimes look non-gendered.   

Less steel manny answer (mostly suspicions and theories):

I think Terfs, broadly, have a lot in common with white working class right populists. They have genuine grievances, and they have genuinely been kind of forgotten by the mainstream left, but rather than fighting the true source of their problems they’ve picked an easier-to-attack scapegoat, and convinced themselves that slaying the straw man will fix everything. A Terf saying “Trans Women are a danger to women and the trans cult has to end” is basically the same as a white retired coal miner saying the immigrants are stealing the jobs and need to be kicked out. The Terf is suffering from systemic misogny, and the coal miner is suffering from classism, but the true causes of those problems go all the way to the top and are difficult to challenge. 

Trans women- and economic migrants- however, are disenfranchised enough to be punched down at easily and with little consequence. This punching-down makes the Terf/Miner feel like they’re Smashing The System when they’re in fact doing nothing of the sort, and are in fact maintaining the system by falling for divide-and-conquer tactics, hurting people who would be more naturally placed as their allies. 

I’ve noticed that a lot of Terfs, for all their professed feminism, seem hyper-fixated on trans women and never have a word to say about sexist cishet men, or women’s issues that have nothing to do with trans people. I’d bet this is largely why: They’ve built trans women up into the One True Threat, because they’re a much smaller and easier target than, like, wealthy conservative traditionalists, and forgotten how systemic misogyny really operates in the process. 

… There also seems to be a subclass of Terfs who aren’t feminists at all: They’re bog-standard social conservatives adopting feminism as a justification for their bigotry. If they didn’t need that justification, they’d drop the feminist label like a hot potato. See: Any ‘Terf’ in a right-wing political party. 

Part of my job is working on social polarisation theory and I think another part of it is that the core goal of a polarised ideology is to sustain the polarisation through total social and cultural segregation of the two poles. Terfs view men and women as inherently and irreconcilably different, and their ideology’s endgame is the total segregation of the people they class as “men” and “women”. This is why things like Michfest and the various attempts at women-only communes were a thing, and it’s why writers like Adrienne Rich framed “lesbianism” as [paraphrasing] “women being focussed entirely on being in community with other women and no men, even if they are not romantically and sexually attracted to women” (from section III of Compulsory Heterosexuality and the Lesbian Experience).

Like, their goal isn’t to end patriarchy; in many ways they don’t believe that patriarchy can be ended, because men are inherently oppressive and therefore patriarchy is inextricable from womens’ interactions with them. So their goal is to “protect” women from this by segregating them from men, and to reinforce the idea that men and women are irreconcilably different; anything that tries to depolarise these two genders is seen as a threat to women because it’s trying to blur the difference between men and women in order to allow men to “invade women’s spaces”.

I’ve had the misfortune to read bits of The Transsexual Empire and that last part is actually directly in the text. TERFs believe that one of the things trans women do, socially, is damage womens’ ability to tell the difference between men and women, which will leave them so bamboozled that they allow men into women’s spaces and lives. Trans people (trans women especially) are seen as this walking embodiment of depolarisation, and TERFs view that as the biggest threat to their ideology, because in many ways it is the biggest threat to their ideology. Trans people refute the claim that men and women are irreconcilably different just by existing, so for TERFs to maintain their polarisation they have to make us not exist.

Edit to add: I forgot the first time but yes, this is why they’re similar to the populist white working class! White populism and white supremacy are both polarised (e.g. the history of racial segregation in the USA), and polarised ideologies are easy to fold into each other due to their intolerance of intesections. From the terf side, examples of this include terfs turning up to BLM marches in the UK and hollering at the participants that they “didn’t even know what a woman was”. From the white supremacist side, examples include framing trans people as degenerate and damaging to the integrity of the white race, for the same reasons as terfs think we’re a threat.

(bonus fact: in the works I have a background in, the main term for polarisation is “populist antagonism”, so it’s fun when populism comes up in these discussions. There’s also “democratic antagonism” which is functionally an intersectional approach.)

That makes sense. As does, paradoxically, the idea that they’re not really trying to end patriarchy.

Great discussion! Another thing that comes to mind here, and this ties into the TERFism/right-populism parallel, is that it seems to me that a lot of radfeminism is kind of like blood and soil Romantic nationalism but for a gender instead of an ethnicity.

I suspect what happened is middle twentieth century feminists took a look at movements like black nationalism and decolonial nationalism and went “we want something like that, but for women,” and radfeminism is the legacy of that.

What I mean is, I suspect a lot of radfemmy people have something like the following view of how gender works:

Women are a folk (as in volk), a people. Membership in this folk is defined partly by biology (blood), and partly by a culture, a network of social connections, and a historical experience that profoundly shapes members of the folk (soil, which in original Romantic nationalism meant homeland - think of that thing in Dune where the Fremen are the way they are because that’s what Arrakis has shaped them into).

There’s a Joseph de'Maistre “no such thing as man” thing going. Women and men are assumed to be profoundly different kinds of people, with profoundly different traits and interests. The great tragedy of the folk’s history is that they have spent much of it divided and weak and thus oppressed and exploited by others, and the way to fix this, and thus the point of feminism, is to build connection and solidarity among women as a folk and advance the interests of women as members of the folk, kind of like how the point of German and Italian nationalism was to create Germany and Italy as nation-states and advance the interests of German people and Italian people as Germans and Italians. Solidarity with people outside the folk along other axis (class, ethnicity, religion, neurotype, etc.) is at best a “that’s cool too, as long as it doesn’t interfere with your solidarity with the folk” thing and at worst treason.

An important part of strengthening the solidarity of the folk is building up a culture and identity that members of the folk have connection to and take pride in. Thus mother goddess spiritual feminism and the like. An important part of this is building pride in group traits that the enemy/oppressors/hegemonic culture has made low-status, which for women means things like periods, female genitalia, etc.. That “why does every third TERF have ‘vagina’ or ‘vulva’ or ‘uterus’ or a reference to menstruation in their username” thing is isomorphic to “black is beautiful,” self-consciously political celebration of things like “natural” black hair, etc..

It is very difficult, if not impossible, for an outsider to truly become part of or very deeply sympathize with the folk. Folkishness is at least a product of a from the cradle onward social and cultural experience (soil), and may even be to some extent literally in the blood. This makes more comprehensible how TERFs seem to combine radically social constructionist views of gender (all that talk about socialization) with what looks a lot like misandristic gender essentialism; in blood and soil thinking, the soil part (culture, experiences, experience of belonging, learning the old songs from your grandmother as a child) and the blood part aren’t contradictory but complimentary and mutually reinforcing.

The folkishness of the folk is something beautiful and valuable, and thus while outsiders cannot truly understand if they often desire to possess it, steal it, make it their own. But because they can’t truly understand it or share it, they can only produce grotesque parodies of it that fundamentally miss the point. Their attempts to copy or partake in things of the folk are not a desire to share but actually a kind of attack; they want to get access to things that are important to the folk and exert power over them, claim ownership of them, appropriate them, turn around to the folk and say “this is ours now!” If allowed to have their way with the precious things of the folk, they would degrade and defile them. There’s a purity axis psychology involved here: the foreigners lust to defile our sacred things with their filthy gaijin barbarian hands! Thus there’s a perceived need to police access to the folk and the things of the folk, and there is an anxiety that the space of the folk may be invaded and degraded by outsiders. TERF transphobia is more than little like Trumpist “build a wall!” sentiment.

I don’t endorse the above (for nationality or gender), but I suspect that’s how the psychology works.

Avatar
winged-light

It is also really important to realise that TERFs feel the same way about you as you feel about them: betrayed.

I see a lot more hatred on my timeline for TERFs than for cishet male transphobes. Like a lot. That accusation you make, “terfs only ever attack trans women and never seem to attack cishet male sexist”? Yeah they say the exact same thing about us. And it’s kind of true. My friends say “kill all TERFs” a LOT more often than they say “kill all cishet male transphobes”.

And I think what’s happening here is, like, we don’t encounter conservative male transphobes. We just… don’t meet them in our social lives. We hang out in Dungeons and Dragons groups, queer Discords, vintage thrift markets, Tumblr, etc. We don’t, mostly, hang out in churches or at gun shows. And if a place or person has a Conservative Christian vibe, we just….. leave. Immediately. Unless we’re forced to stay somehow.

Whereas TERFs look, on the surface, like friends. They are feminists who enjoy lesbian art and vintage thrifting and swing-dancing and communism memes. We hang out with them, maybe we even like them or reblog their posts, and it’s only later - when the topic of trans rights comes up - that we’re like, shit, this person’s a transphobe.

And that feels worse. It doesn’t feel good to walk into an online forum, realise immediately the admins have a “no pro-LGBTQA+ posts, we are a Christian space” and go “oh shit I’m leaving”. But it feels worse to enter an online forum, spend a week hanging out there and enjoying the Marxist analysis, and then realise the mods are removing all pro-trans posts.

You thought you were among friends, but you weren’t. You thought these were allies, but they aren’t. It seems like they should be allies! They’re fellow oppressed people, why aren’t they allies? But they aren’t. And that sucks.

And that kinda makes you hate TERFs more than you hate right-wing Christian Conservative transphobes. Like, you never actually have to speak to Christian Conservative transphobes unless you’re unlucky enough to work in retail and get harassed by them - and even then, you go home at the end of the day and vent about it in safe spaces online with other queer leftists. But sometimes you encounter TERFs socially in those queer leftist spaces, and that makes you feel unsafe in your own home, and that’s worse. So you vocally profess hating them and put “terfs dni” on all your feminist stuff, in the hopes they’ll stay away.

Yeah, that’s how they feel. They don’t hate trans people more than conservative Christians because they think trans people are doing more damage than conservative Christians. Only the more radical right-wing minority think that, and that minority is often co-opting TERF politics to seem more left-wing. The strain of lefty Marxist radical feminists you’ll find on Tumblr? They hate us because we are so close to them. They come into feminist spaces expecting that they’ll be safe spaces, that they’ll be among friends, and then a trans woman says something that doesn’t align with their experiences and they feel betrayed.

They don’t care that conservative Christians exclude them from churches and gun shows. They didn’t want to go to churches and gun shows in the first place. But when we exclude them from our board-gaming clubs and our communist reading groups and our gay support circles? That stings. In their eyes, trans people are the reason they can’t participate in the safe spaces that they want to participate in.

This is why “terfs aren’t really feminists” analysis is so unhelpful. Sure, there’s a small minority of transphobes out there who are right-wing and express the “we have to protect cis women’s rights” argument to basically make themselves sound more acceptable. But the ones who call themselves radical feminists? For the most part they really are, genuinely, feminists. And they are angry because they feel like feminism is their movement, the one thing that stands up for their rights as women, and when they find themselves excluded from mainstream feminism they have nowhere else to go.

TERFs on tumblr have a concept, “peak trans”. It’s basically their term for the moment someone converts. They tell a very specific story about how people typically join their club: a good feminist professes all the views she’s supposed to, like how terfs smell and trans women are women. Then gradually she encounters more and more aggression from trans people, until she eventually ‘breaks’ and decides that she’ll check out what the TERFs have to say - even though she knows she’s supposed to hate TERFs. Once she reads actual TERF writing as opposed to just “kill all TERFs” rhetoric, she obviously converts! She reluctantly begins to believe TERF views, even though she feels guilty about it because she knows she’s supposed to hate TERFs. But then she sees how nice and kind the TERFs are, how they’ll accept her in a way mainstream feminism never will, and she begins to feel at home in their community. That specific story gets told over and over again. It’s part of their self-image. You need to understand this if you want to understand them.

Sometimes these “peak trans” moments are actually trans women being kind of mean or thoughtless. Trans women saying “cis women have it easy, they get to be perceived as women without any effort!” really stings if you’re someone who has been traumatised by the experience of being perceived as a woman. Right-wing trans women exist, and sometimes they say shit like “misogyny isn’t real, I would know because I never experience misogyny!” and if you are like “maybe your experience is not universal” they come back with “are you saying my experience isn’t female? Are you saying I’m not a woman??” and honestly that’s obnoxious as fuck. In the radfem narrative, encountering that is “peak trans” - it’s the moment when someone’s rising suspicions peak, and they ‘break’ through the dogma and decide to check out these stigmatised anti-trans views.

The thing is… trans people are people just like any other group. Some of us are assholes. Some of us are antifeminist and some of us say fucked-up things. It is not fair to tar us all with that brush. It is not fair to encounter a few antifeminist trans women and conclude that the existence of trans women is inherently antifeminist. That’s often what TERFs are doing. And in that regard, it’s not similar to white working-class populism. It’s more similar to the racism of someone who says “an immigrant robbed my dad so I’ve decided to hate all immigrants forever” or “my abusive cheating ex was bi so all bi people are inherently bad”. Sure, some immigrants commit crimes - but the majority don’t. The existence of some shitty bi people doesn’t make biphobia okay. Etc.

I hear “terfs never actually care about women’s issues, they just hate trans women!” so often and it just does not reflect reality. I know it’s tempting to just say anything bad about TERFs because we hate them, but seriously, this does not help. Because what happens when someone goes and reads a TERF blog and it’s 50% discourse about economic issues (like wages for housework or tampon taxes), 30% anti-FGM, 10% lesbian positivity and 10% transphobia? They’re going to go “huh, guess I was lied to about what TERFs think and they’re not as bad as everyone says”. And TERFs use that. The narrative they tell about themselves is: “Mainstream feminism will just tell you TERFs are evil to prevent you reading our actual arguments, because if you actually read about us you’d realise we’re right! We’re the women who were brave enough to check out TERF writings even though we were told not to, because we were driven to it by our ‘peak trans’ moments, and we realised we’d been lied to!”

I am so deadly serious it is fucking vital to understand that a significant number of TERFs very much are feminists and that is part of the problem. We must stop reinforcing their narrative. We have to give people the tools to actually read TERFs critically and understand where they are going wrong and why.

It is absolutely not true that TERFs on tumblr only ever hate on trans women and don’t speak about women’s issues. If you tell people that, they’re only going to be more susceptible to a TERF saying “you’ve been lied to about us”.

Wanna know something else TERFs talk about? Like all the time? FGM. TERFs on tumblr talk a lot about Female Genital Mutilation. For anyone unfamiliar, this is a fairly horrific practice carried out by some people who believe that women need to be “pure” to have value, so they sew girls’ vaginas shut and cut off their clits. This is not comparable to circumcision, which may violate the bodily autonomy of AMAB infants but mostly doesn’t cause them ongoing pain or limit their ability to have sex. FGM is aimed at preventing the woman experiencing sexual pleasure at all, ever. In some cases the vagina is sewn shut so that it’ll heal over and the woman’s future husband can have the pleasure of seeing she’s a virgin, ripping her open, and fucking the wound. Sometimes the victims die. It’s fucking awful. Honestly, we should all talk a little more about FGM. Ending it should be a priority for feminism.

Think for a second about how this works. We tell people that TERFs aren’t really feminists. Someone reads a TERF blog and sees them talking nonstop about issues like FGM, period poverty / tampon taxes, how little girls don’t succeed in math/science classes because their teachers stereotype them and push them away, abortion rights, etc. And the reader goes: “huh, this seems pretty feminist actually”. And then the TERF goes: “Yeah, the reason we’re painted as not being feminists is because these issues don’t affect trans women, so people say they aren’t really feminism.”

TERFs argue that trans women are “socialised male” - eg. they aren’t pushed away from math classes as a kid, because their teachers perceive them as male and therefore encourage them into STEM. According to TERFs, mainstream feminists are no longer allowed to care about FGM because it doesn’t affect trans women. When we say “people who need abortions” instead of “women”, TERFs paint that as sinister. Trans women don’t need tampons, so tampons aren’t a feminist issue any more. They say: trans women are trying to co-opt feminism. Feminism is your safe space as a woman, your movement for your rights, the one place you should be centred - and trans women want to take that away from you.

See how that works? It’s a radicalization process that, if they weren’t recruiting feminists, wouldn’t fucking work. The message is: “you as a cis woman aren’t welcome in liberal feminism any more, but you’ll be welcome here in radical feminism”.

It is vital to affirm that this is not true. Abortions, FGM, period poverty, discrimination against little girls, etc are all unquestionably feminist issues even if they don’t affect all women. Discrimination against women who wear hijab is a real feminist issue, even though it doesn’t affect all women. The issues of women in STEM are feminist issues even if they don’t affect women who work in childcare or marketing. Transmisogyny is a real feminist issue even if it doesn’t affect cis women.

TERFs believe that trans women aren’t the natural allies of women because their issues are different. Cis women need abortions, trans women need gender affirming surgery, and TERFs believe those are two different campaigns. They are not. Those campaigns are one and the same. We are both fighting for the right to bodily autonomy against a cishet male hegemony which believes male politicians should have the right to control what medical procedures people can get. If we establish that everyone has the right to get whatever medical procedures they want with informed consent, this will benefit everyone; cis women, trans women, disabled people, gay couples seeking IVF, etc. If we establish that it isn’t okay to discriminate against people for how they dress, that will benefit gnc women and trans people. Etc.

Many, many TERFs are feminists and that is part of the problem - they are similar to trans-inclusive feminists in many ways, they often share our beliefs or want to be in our spaces, and that is part of why we hate each other so much. We bump into each other. And it’s easy for TERFs to recruit young feminist women who have been traumatised by patriarchy and who are really angry and who see the rest of us talking absolute bullshit about all this.

Radfems, and folks on the fence: Your feminism will be stronger if it includes trans women. Most of them are cool. Honest. The ones you see getting reblogged in your TERF circles are not representative.

Everyone else: please stop talking about shit you don’t fucking understand. If you haven’t spent time with these people, don’t confidently go around asserting that they’re all not really feminists. You will end up indirectly feeding their narrative. You are giving them ammunition. Stop.

Something else that gives them ammunition is, unfortunately, lashing out at ‘people who sound like terfs.’

One of the points of dogwhistles is the way they can poison innocuous opinions by association and make the person hearing the whistle and objecting to it look crazy and paranoid. Especially when they do in fact wind up punching the wrong people because they vastly overestimated the level to which people not immersed in the issue are aware of the relevant lingo and rivalries.

And for that matter the extent to which they even should be. We’ve all heard by now about the issue of tying moral correctness too closely to Political Correctness in the sense of having all the right language and keeping furiously up to date as it shifts? Fantastic way to run out of friends. (And also eventually actual principles rather than obsessive conformity.)

It’s a huge problem in the internet age where interactions are routinely shorn of context other than what each party brings with them inside their heads, and one which radicalization schemes of all kinds are profiting from immensely.

Putting a lot of energy into punishing and excluding terfs is useful to a certain point, probably; certainly their exclusionary agenda shouldn’t be normalized. but also tends to mean that Jane Rando’s awareness of trans issues is increasingly terf-centric. a non-negligible amount in some spaces by way of getting made into collateral in someone’s terf-punching campaign because she identifies with some milquetoast second-wave feminist feelgood affirmation, or something.

This mostly helps terf recruitment. It’s not a great strategy.

There’s also the fact that afaict, it’s hard to get a good idea of the diversity of what it’s like to be trans as an outsider. I remember a while ago, I was scrolling through a “gender critical” blog out of curiosity and saw a post that went like:

“trans people are so stupid! They really believe [simple idea of gender that gets the need for transition across, that I’ve seen trans people mostly give to cis people who seem likely to Not Get It]. This is ridiculous, if they actually thought about gender they would realize [idea of gender I have only heard expressed by trans people, ONLY in trans-specific support groups after triple-checking that no cis person could possibly be listening in].”

And I was like, OH. there is a massive miscommunication happening here. And one that I can’t imagine getting cleared up easily, given that afaik no one wants to give out intimate details of their life experience to people who openly profess to hate them and want people like them eliminated. I certainly don’t have the capacity, skills, or inclination to mass-educate TERFS on the finer points of trans theory, lmao.

That said, if anyone (TERF, feminist, trans, unsure, all or none of the above) wants to talk more about this, you can DM me and if I have time we can have a short, private, one-on-one conversation. (We agree to not insult each other, assume the other person is some kind of brainwashed drone, or assume the other person is 100% representative of any demographic or ideological group, ok?)

Avatar
heysawbones

This discussion is fantastic because it dares to do something so rare in queer discourse: understand and be realistic about the desires and motives of “the enemy”.

Avatar
rincewitch

another thing i see pretty often is just flattening the word ‘terf’ into meaning basically any transphobe of any sort, rather than a specific trans-exclusionary ideology, which tends to make arguments about it get a bit muddled

personally i kind of miss when we called them “radscum”, both because it sounds like something you’d find roaming the mojave wasteland in fallout, which is funny, but also because the specificity of ‘radicalism’ isn’t just folded away into an initialism and forgotten about, when it’s the thing that distinguishes a terf from other strands of transphobia

YUP–and also, referring to TERFs as radscum helps us remember why modern radical feminism is worth being suspicious of even when it’s not explicitly trans-exclusionary. (TIRFs exist, y'all, but they also create another pipeline of feminists moving towards TERFs.)

Centering the “radical feminism” aspect of “TERF” as well as the “trans-exclusionary” piece helps us to see the fundamental binarism, zero-sum power politics, literal hatred of men (including marginalized men) and hostility to intersectionality that characterizes radical feminism as a movement distinct from mainstream and intersectional feminism.

Those things are important, okay? You can be exasperated with men in your life and demand a higher standard without coming to believe that men and masculinity are inherently bad. You can be frustrated with the tendency of men’s rights groups to twist into blaming women (it’s happened twice now) without deciding that fundamentally all men are the enemy in gender politics. You don’t have to turn deconstructing gender oppression into a zero-sum game where someone has to win and someone has to lose: traditional masculinity is also a pyramid scheme that hurts many men, and there are genuinely many men who sincerely want to figure out how to exist and be themselves as allies to people of all genders. Feminism should have mechanisms to create alliances and coalitions where we can all work together to make gendered culture better for everyone inside it. Feminists should have mechanisms to teach women that intersectionality is important and that intersectional alliances inform and improve our thinking.

But radical feminism is inherently opposed to those things, too. And I think that pulling at the roots of trans exclusionary radical feminism is also easier if you’re engaging with their feminism as feminism. If you meet the ideology as it exists deeply and say, no, men doesn’t have to mean bad. Gender relations do not have to be an eternal struggle.

I think the comparison to TERF ideology to a Folkish ideology of identity is extremely apt, not least because the Folk ideology of white supremacists also inherently accepts the idea that someone has to be a marginalized underclass and someone has to be on top, and the fascist endgame is all about making sure that the right groups occupy the right places. And that’s wrong. There doesn’t have to be an eternal struggle. We can learn to build a society where no one has to suffer, if only we try.

Avatar

So I’m on AO3 and I see a lot of people who put “I do not own [insert fandom here]” before their story.

Like, I came on this site to read FAN fiction. This is a FAN fiction site. I’m fully aware that you don’t own the fandom or the characters. That’s why it’s called FAN FICTION.

Avatar
adiwriting

Oh you youngins… How quickly they forget.

Back in the day, before fan fiction was mainstream and even encouraged by creators… This was your “please don’t sue me, I’m poor and just here for a good time” plea.

Cause guess what? That shit used to happen.

how soon they forget ann rice’s lawyers.

What happened with her lawyers.

History became legend. Legend became myth….  And some things that should not have been forgotten were lost.

I worked with one of the women that got contacted by Rice’s lawyers. Scared the hell out of her and she never touched fandom again. The first time I saw a commission post on tumblr for fanart, I was shocked.

Avatar
demonicae

One of the reasons I fell out of love with her writing was her treatment of the fans… (that and the opening chapter of Lasher gave me such heebie-jeebies with the whole underage sex thing I felt unclean just reading it.)

I have zero problem with fanart/fic so long as the creators aren’t making money off of it. It is someone else’s intellectual property and people who create fan related works need to respect that (and a solid 98% of them do.)

The remaining 2% are either easily swayed by being gently prompted to not cash in on someone else’s IP. Or they DGAF… and they are the ones who will eventually land themselves in hot water. Either way: this isn’t much of an excuse to persecute your entire fanbase.

But Anne Rice went off the deep end with this stuff by actively attacking people who were expressing their love for her work and were not profiteering from it.

The Vampire Chronicles was a dangerous fandom to be in back in the day. Most of the works I read/saw were hidden away in the dark recesses of the internet and covered by disclaimers (a lot of them reading like thoroughly researched legal documents.)

And woe betide anyone who was into shipping anyone with ANYONE in that fandom. You were most at risk, it seemed, if your vision of the characters deviated from the creators ‘original intentions.’ (Hypocritical of a woman who made most of her living writing erotica.)

Imagine getting sued over a headcanon…

Put simply: we all lived in fear of her team of highly paid lawyers descending from the heavens and taking us to court over a slashfic less than 500 words long.

Avatar
pagerunner-j

all of this

Reblogging because I can’t believe there are people out there who don’t know the story behind fan fiction disclaimers. 

Avatar
hils79

Yep I used to have disclaimers on all my Buffy fic back in the day. The Buffy creators were mostly pretty chill about fandom but it’s not like it is now. You did NOT talk about fandom with anyone except other fandom people and bringing it up at cons was a massive no no because of stuff like this.

I think Supernatural (and Misha Collins specifically) was when that wall between fandom and creators started to break down. It’s a relatively new thing.

I remember going to a Merlin panel down in London and a girl sitting next to me asked the cast about slash and I thought she was going to get kicked out!

Fandom history is important.

Oh, this brings back some not so-awesome ‘90s fandom memories! 

Avatar
griesly

Oh man, let me tell you about the X-Files fandom. Lawyers for FOX sued, threatened, and generally terrified the owners of fan websites on a regular basis. God help you if you wrote or created original art set in their (expansive) universe or worse - dared to write about their characters. Even people who weren’t creating fanworks, just hosting Geocities pages about how much people liked the show would be sent C&D orders or actually fined. When I was first discovering the concept, the first rule of fandom was you do not talk about fandom because the consequences could be devastating.

It was such a strange and uncomfortable experience for me when fans in LOTR and Potter fandoms suddenly started shoving their work in people’s faces speaking publicly about fandom and wanting to engage in dialogue with the creators and actors of the Thing they were into. Fan stuff was supposed to stay online, in archives and list-serves and zines we passed around because it just wasn’t cool to talk about it and it could get you in a boatload of trouble. The freedom we have to create and gather together in a shared space, or actually be acknowledged in any way by people outside the fandom was inconceivable to my fannish, teenaged self. I want fans these days to understand how amazing modern fandom really is, cherish the community, and appreciate what it took to get us here. 

“if you found this by googling yourself, hit back now. this means you, pete wentz”

Avatar
teabq

Oh hey, even more blasts from the past.

I was one of the ones who got a love letter from Anne Rice’s lawyers. Bear in mind that up until that point her publisher had encouraged fanfic and worked with the archive keeper (one of my roommates at the time) to drum up publicity for upcoming books and so on.

I could tell such tales of how much Anne screwed over her fans back then. The tl;dr version is that she and her peeps would use fan projects as free market research and then bring in the lawyers once it was felt Anne could make money off of it herself. (Talismanic Tours being one of the most offensive examples of this.)

But where fanfic is concerned not only did we get nastygrams but one of my friends had Anne’s lawyer trying to fuck up her own privately owned business which had NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING ANNE RELATED. Said friend was a small business owner with health issues who wasn’t exactly rolling in money, so guess how well that went?

On top of that when yours truly tried to speak out about it I discovered that someone in Anne’s camp had been cyber stalking me to the point where they took all the tiny crumbs of personal information I had posted over the course of five years or so and used it to doxx me (before that was even a term and in early enough days of the WWW that this wasn’t an easy task) and post VERY personal information about me on the main fandom message board of the time. Luckily for me the mod was my friend and she took that down post haste, but it was still oodles of fun feeling that violated and why to this day I am very strict about keeping my fandom and personal lives separate online.

Hence why those of us in the fandom at the time who still gave enough of a shit to want to keep writing fic DID keep writing fic, but shoved it so far underground and slapped it with so many disclaimers they could’ve outweighed the word count of War & Peace. It wasn’t just for the purpose of protecting fic but for trying to protect our personal lives as well.

(Also would love to know who @tiger-in-the-flightdeck knew. Life paths crossing after so many years….)

Lucasfilm also sent cease-and-desist letters to Star Wars fanzines publishing slash.

My favourite bit I read from one included the idea that you weren’t allowed to have any explicit content, of which anything queer, no matter how tame, was included, to “preserve that innocence even Imperial crew members must be imagined to have”.

Yeah. The same Imperial crew members who helped build the Death Star to commit planetary genocide.

(It’s one reason Sinjir Velus, while I still have some issues with him, feels like such a delicious ‘f*** you’.)

Later on, they were apparently persuaded to ‘allow’ fans to write slash, provided in ‘remained within the nebulous bounds of good taste’.

(On a related note, if I wasn’t quite so attached to my URL, I would 100% change it to ‘Nebulous Bounds’, because that’s just downright catchy)

Avatar
thepioden

Anne McCaffrey had this huge long set of rules about how exactly you were allowed to play in her sandbox. Dragonriders of Pern was my first online fandom, and I was big into the Pern RP scene - and just about every fan-Weyr had a copy of these lists of rules McCaffrey wanted enforced. One of which was ‘no porn’ and another was basically ‘it can’t be gay’ (and for a while ‘no fanfiction posted online’? which??? anyway.)

She relaxed a little as time went on, but still. 

Avatar
mikkeneko

Let’s not forget: the reason AO3 is called ‘Archive of our own’  is because it was created in response to some bullshit that assholes were trying to play with fan creators. Basically (if I remember the fiasco correctly) trying to mine fandom creators for content which they could then use to generate ad profit on their shitty websites. When the series creators objected, the fans tried to pull their content, only to find that the website hoster resisted, claiming their content was all his now.

That wasn’t even all that long ago…

fandom history class

Avatar
lazaefair

To this day, *talking* about writing or reading fanfiction - just acknowledging that it exists - to anyone other than people I know are in fandom as well, feels like a dangerous act. The strict separation I maintained between my real life identity, my online identity, and my fandom identity (yes, they were separate, because some of the most vicious and mocking people were fellow nerds) has broken down a bit these days, but I don’t think I’ll ever be able to integrate them as freely as some younger fans do.

Everybody should know that AO3 is just one project of the Organization for Transformative Works. Their mission is much broader than just hosting a (very good) fanfic site. They do all kinds of fandom history archiving and publish an academic journal, but most importantly, they perform legal advocacy to protect the fair use rights of people who make fanfic or fanart.

The OTW Legal Committee’s mission includes education, assistance, and advocacy.

  • We create and post educational materials about developments in fandom-related law on transformativeworks.org and on archiveofourown.org.
  • We assist individual fans when their fanworks are challenged, we answer fans’ questions about law relevant to fanworks, and we help fans find legal representation.
  • We partner with other advocacy organizations and coalitions in the U.S. and around the world.
  • We advocate for laws and policies that promote balance and protect fanworks and fandom.
  • And much more!

I haven’t been involved in fandom stuff all that long, but I find this stuff so fascinating!

Avatar
hoenursey

whew, i feel old, but that’s mostly bc i was on forums way way waaaaay too young. but this? yes. all the way. people had password protected forums on the weirdest, most unconventional websites. before you could even be approved by the mods they would search your blog, your other accounts, question you, everything, all because we were broke teens and preteens trying to do something for fun and if someone got in who could doxx you or send your work over to a lawyer? that was it, you were OVER. that’s also part of where fandom wars and the defense of fandom came from: quote unquote “enemy” fandoms would infiltrate just to hurt you. @theglintoftherail makes a very good point: ao3 is a goddamn haven. and they’re a great team of lawyers and people dedicated to protecting fanworks! part of the reason it’s so great is because they know there’s no one like them out there. they also go to the ends of the damned earth to protect you and to be inclusive, which is why there’s shit like tentacle porn and underage and dubcon. because they’re dedicated to protecting readers and creators to the death. they don’t advocate for it and they have the extensive rating and tagging system because of that (legit the best tagging system i’ve ever seen) but they don’t know if you’re dealing with trauma or if you need to get something out. do not forget your fandom, kids. jesus

Who else knew nothing about this? A show of hands

Avatar
yamaccino

I’m just the right age to remember the disclaimers and to have HEARD about the Anne Rice, Anne McCaffrey, and X-Files fiascos, but I was never in any of those fandoms and I was more or less on the tail end of that. I can’t imagine having to be scared to tell people I write fanfic. So glad we’ve come so far.

Every time I start reading fanfics, I thank all of you people whose neverending resilience and the drive to be creative made it possible for me to consume content freely and without worry 🖤

Avatar
threshie

My older fics have the disclaimers. Heck, my older fanart has disclaimers in the descriptions. FFN and DeviantArt were those times, AO3 and Tumblr era I stopped finally.

Avatar
northstarfan

In case folks still don’t get why losing AO3 would be so devastating…

Avatar
Avatar
xbuster

Marvel movies have completely eliminated the concept of practical effects from the movie-watching public’s consciousness

Not just practical effects just like. Basic set design lol

Avatar
wemblingfool

How… How do they think sci-fi was done before CGI?

Avatar
seldo

Really badly? Do you remember sci-fi before CGI? It was shit. And don’t say Star Wars because they went back and fixed that with CGI later.

*big sigh* *puts head in hands* heathens who’ve never watched pre-MCU sci-fi movies OR the unedited Star Wars movies, my beloathed

So first of all, most people agree that the majority of the “CGI fixes” in the Star Wars original trilogy (excluding minor visual/sound effects like lightsaber colors and blaster sounds) are unececssary, extremely conspicuous, and/or bad. This is not news to literally anyone older than about 20 who has consumed Star Wars content on any level. There are quite literally two very famous ‘despecialized’ fan projects explicitly dedicated to un-doing all of the shitty “fixed” CGI effects while simultaneously restoring the OT in HD.

And yes, I do, in fact, remember sci-fi special effects before CGI was the foundational cornerstone of moviemaking. It was not, in fact, shit:

Also, ironically I can show you by….*gasp* using fucking Star Wars, of all things. Welcome to the Tatooine pod race set of The Phantom Menace, which was not, as popularly believed, CGI’d but was instead a fully-built miniature set:

Yes, they built the entire set as a minature, built life-sized pod racers for the actors, then spliced the two together using digital effects. Yes, they did such a fantastic job that people think the entire set and scene sequence was basically completely CGI’d to this day. You’re fucking welcome for undervaluing the time, effort, and talents of set designers by implying that set design and practical effects inherently mean things will look like shit.

CGI also ages really poorly. What you think looks incredibly realistic now is going to look terrible in a few years. Just look at the original vs remastered Star Trek. They “restored” Star Trek around 2006 and replaced a lot of the practical effects with CGI, and maybe it looked ok in 2006, but it looks so bad and fake now.

You can see a video comparison for one episode here: https://youtu.be/ruPVTPCavdM

In the 60s they built a whole model of the Enterprise, complete with blinking lights and beautifully sculpted/painted details. It looks stunning! Then they replaced it with that horribly smooth and fake looking cgi ship.

Just look at this beauty

You can see the model at the Air and Space Museum in DC

Unfortunately the remastered version is the only version available to stream, but you can still find DVDs with the original effect.

Avatar
karadin

made in 1968 and still stunning 2001 A Space Odyssey

the designers worked with engineers at NASA to make realistic futuristic special effects using models and matte paintings no computer effects at all! - and incidentally inspired David Bowie to write Space Oddity, later performed in space by astronaut Chris Hadfield

The CGI of the original Jurassic Park may not be aging well (though arguably still better than some), but the practical effects will always look stunning. 

I want to talk fantasy.

This shot was achieved with splicing and green screen.

This wild-looking shot (and similar manipulations) was famously achieved by having a professional juggler in a duplicate of Bowie’s jacket and gloves sitting behind him, basically with Bowie in his lap, doing the handwork while Bowie kept his arms behind the juggler. You may have seen a game based on this on Whose Line Is It Anyway.

This? Wires! Splicing! THE CGI TO DO THIS DIDN’T EXIST YET! (The juggler is hidden under the cape. If there’s a scene where he’s wearing a cape, that’s actually probably why.)

And this? This heartstopping shot?

This does appear to be from the version with CGI—

—CGI THAT WAS USED TO ERASE THE SHADOW FROM THE PRACTICAL EFFECT.

The shot itself hasn’t changed. The lift itself was done with wires and Bowie was given some propulsion with an air cannon so he could make that turn at speed. A minor amount of CGI was used in the 30th anniversary to “touch up” the work done in 1986, and one of the things they did was to remove a shadow on the wall from one of the wires.

How about this?

You don’t know it, but you’re looking at a practical effect. In real life, the Ruby Slippers are almost orange. That luxe, rich ruby color showed up on the film as black when the shoes were the correct color, so the costumers adjusted the actual costume to give the color they wanted.

A MODEL OF A HOUSE SHOT INSIDE A NYLON STOCKING ATTACHED TO A FAN.

MAN IN A COSTUME.

HORSES DUSTED WITH COLORED GELATIN.

And this? This is where it would’ve been useful to have CGI. Margaret Hamilton got really badly burned on the steam doing one of her entrance/exits, and ended up in the hospital. THIS is what you use CGI for.

You come into my house and insult practical effects?

I’ll just finish off by reminding you THIS IS ONE, TOO.

That last one, iirc, was there was a double in a sepia-toned costume, and the interior door and wall there was painted brown, so when it was lit and shot it all appeared to still be in the sepia tone of the Kansas scenes, and part of why Dorothy stepped back out of the frame was so the double and Judy Garland (in the proper blue-and-white costume) could swap.

You are correct. The double’s name, by the way, was Bobbi Koshay.

Avatar
vinceaddams

There are also a lot of backgrounds that are matte paintings!

Lord of The Rings used some incredible miniature sets too.

Avatar
flameraven

The real reason CGI has taken over is not because it creates better effects (although it is very useful!) but because it’s cheaper. The practical effects artists have union protections. CGI artists don’t.

CGI (at this point) works well to do things like smooth out practical effects (erase wires, etc).

And when you want a bit of uncanny valley effect, to make actors look like animated characters without hours in the makeup chair.

Use CGI to remove safety gear from the shot, so the stunt people are safer.

And unionize CGI artists so they have safer working conditions & are properly compensated.

Avatar

Behold, one tiny alien baby kitten.

Just an incredibly disproportionate creechur

He skipped leg day

Ohhhhh nooooooooo

My heart....

*sobs incoherently*

Eep

Accidentally woke him from his nap and he is Displeased...

Last pre-feeding weight was 128 grams, up 25 from when I got him just 2 days ago. Doing pretty well with having gained a full tenth of a pound (aka over half his initial body weight) since the day he was brought to the shelter.

Good morning Rutabaga Comblebutts! You're looking more like a normal ki-

Oh! Nevermind. You still very much look like an alien.

He spent the whole day just staring at everyone in spay/neuter

Oh! Oh! It finally happened!

Milk-drunk Rutabaga!!!

And a bonus picture where he looks like a baby cat for once

Rutabaga likes to tuck himself under his bear stuffie.

Rutabaga looks like an actual kitten instead of an alien this morning!!!

And if you look closely, you can finally see the difference between pupil and iris. The eyes are un-voiding

... For a kitten that is at minimum 18 days old he sure does stand well.... he should also be erupting canine teeth soon but doesn't even have all his incisors in yet....

In reality I think this creechur is actually at least 4 weeks old. We'll probably need to test for congenital hypothyroidism once he's big enough to draw blood from.

Rutabaga still prefers to be swaddled for feeding so he gets turned into a little caterpillar every 3 or 4 hours

Cat rescuers and rehabbers are angels but always give cats the most unhinged possible names

Avatar

ok but have you ever seen a parked blimp?

why is this so goddamn funny

they are absolutely not supposed to do this btw, this happened because of unexpected wind conditions. blimps are intended to be docked horizontally. It’s still quite a sight to see.

the metal tower is called a mooring mass. the tallest mooring mast ever designed was the Empire State Building spire, which was originally built to allow airships to dock.

(this was mostly a publicity stun that never actually, ahem, got off the ground)

Dammit, the old future was so cool.

Avatar
zagreus

(deep breath of pedantic annoyance at special interest)

NONE OF THESE ARE BLIMPS.

“blimp” means a nonrigid airship without a metal frame, like this

much smaller and very different from rigid airships like the ones above, which have sturdy but lightweight metal frames supporting them

ANYWAY otherwise yeah this is basically true, if oversimplified

On August 25th, 1927, the USS Los Angeles did fall foul of extreme wind conditions while (improperly imo) secured at the tall mooring mast in Lakehurst, New Jersey* and was blown vertical, standing briefly on its nose and causing some very minor damage as tools and equipment fell forward through the ship. No one was hurt as far as I can remember. 

And as far as I know, there were never any SERIOUS practical plans to use the empire state building as a mooring mast, nor was it ever used as such. the picture above is a primitive photocomposite, think 1930s photoshop. not just a publicity stunt but a straight-up fantasy in practical terms, it wouldn’t have worked well. at that altitude the Lakehurst incident being repeated would have been inevitable and probably a lot worse

*(which they replaced with a shorter, more secure one as a result of this incident because no it was very definitely not supposed to happen)

DON’T let airships do this!!! ITS NOT CUTE OR FUNNY

A VERTICALLY PARKED AIRSHIP IS IN EXTREME DISTRESS they only dock vertically when they are VERY STRESSED!! make sure to secure them PROPERLY to their mooring posts at appropriate altitudes, and give them plenty of water and hubristic design flaws. this has been a PSA thank you!!

the goodyear blimp is the Official Bird of the city of Redondo Beach

Blimps are… real?

so a fun consequence of this post is I have heard from multiple people who were under the impression that blimps are fictional

Avatar

Concerning Juliet’s age

I find a big stumbling block that comes with teaching Romeo and Juliet is explaining Juliet’s age. Juliet is 13 - more precisely, she’s just on the cusp of turning 14. Though it’s not stated explicitly, Romeo is implied to be a teenager just a few years older than her - perhaps 15 or 16. Most people dismiss Juliet’s age by saying “that was normal back then” or “that’s just how it was.” This is fundamentally untrue, and I will explain why.

In Elizabethan England, girls could legally marry at 12 (boys at 14) but only with their father’s permission. However, it was normal for girls to marry after 18 (more commonly in early to mid twenties) and for boys to marry after 21 (more commonly in mid to late twenties). But at 14, a girl could legally marry without papa’s consent. Of course, in doing so she ran the risk of being disowned and left destitute, which is why it was so critical for a young man to obtain the father’s goodwill and permission first. Therein lies the reason why we are repeatedly told that Juliet is about to turn 14 in under 2 weeks. This was a critical turning point in her life.

In modern terms, this would be the equivalent of the law in many countries which states children can marry at 16 with their parents’ permission, or at 18 to whomever they choose - but we see it as pretty weird if someone marries at 16. They’re still a kid, we think to ourselves - why would their parents agree to this?

This is exactly the attitude we should take when we look at Romeo and Juliet’s clandestine marriage. Today it would be like two 16 year olds marrying in secret. This is NOT normal and would NOT have been received without a raised eyebrow from the audience. Modern audiences AND Elizabethan audiences both look at this and think THEY. ARE. KIDS.

Critically, it is also not normal for fathers to force daughters into marriage at this time. Lord Capulet initially makes a point of telling Juliet’s suitor Paris that “my will to her consent is but a part.” He tells Paris he wants to wait a few years before he lets Juliet marry, and informs him to woo her in the meantime. Obtaining the lady’s consent was of CRITICAL importance. It’s why so many of Shakespeare’s plays have such dazzling, well-matched lovers in them, and why men who try to force daughters to marry against their will seldom prosper. You had to let the lady make her own choice. Why?

Put simply, for her health. It was considered a scientific fact that a woman’s health was largely, if not solely, dependant on her womb. Once she reached menarche in her teenage years, it was important to see her fitted with a compatible sexual partner. (For aristocratic girls, who were healthier and enjoyed better diets, menarche generally occurred in the early teens rather than the later teens, as was more normal at the time). The womb was thought to need heat, pleasure, and conception if the woman was to flourish. Catholics might consider virginity a fit state for women, but the reformed English church thought it was borderline unhealthy - sex and marriage was sometimes even prescribed as a medical treatment. A neglected wife or widow could become sick from lack of (pleasurable) sex. Marrying an unfit sexual partner or an older man threatened to put a girl’s health at risk. An unsatisfied woman, made ill by her womb as a result - was a threat to the family unit and the stability of society as a whole. A satisfying sex life with a good husband meant a womb that had the heat it needed to thrive, and by extension a happy and healthy woman.

In Shakespeare’s plays, sexual compatibility between lovers manifests on the stage in wordplay. In Much Ado About Nothing, sparks fly as Benedick and Beatrice quarrel and banter, in comparison to the silence that pervades the relationship between Hero and Claudio, which sours very quickly. Compare to R+J - Lord Capulet tells Paris to woo Juliet, but the two do not communicate. But when Romeo and Juliet meet, their first speech takes the form of a sonnet. They might be young and foolish, but they are in love. Their speech betrays it.

Juliet, on the cusp of 14, would have been recognised as a girl who had reached a legal and biological turning point. Her sexual awakening was upon her, though she cares very little about marriage until she meets the man she loves. They talk, and he wins her wholehearted, unambiguous and enthusiastic consent - all excellent grounds for a relationship, if only she weren’t so young.

When Tybalt dies and Romeo is banished, Lord Capulet undergoes a monstrous change from doting father to tyrannical patriarch. Juilet’s consent has to take a back seat to the issue of securing the Capulet house. He needs to win back the prince’s favour and stabilise his family after the murder of his nephew. Juliet’s marriage to Paris is the best way to make that happen. Fathers didn’t ordinarily throw their daughters around the room to make them marry. Among the nobility, it was sometimes a sad fact that girls were simply expected to agree with their fathers’ choices. They might be coerced with threats of being disowned. But for the VAST majority of people in England - basically everyone non-aristocratic - the idea of forcing a daughter that young to marry would have been received with disgust. And even among the nobility it was only used as a last resort, when the welfare of the family was at stake. Note that aristocratic boys were often in the same position, and would also be coerced into advantageous marriages for the good of the family.

tl;dr:

Q. Was it normal for girls to marry at 13?

A. Hell no!

Q. Was it legal for girls to marry at 13?

A. Not without dad’s consent - Friar Lawrence performs this dodgy ceremony only because he believes it might bring peace between the houses.

Q. Was it normal for fathers to force girls into marriage?

A. Not at this time in England. In noble families, daughters were expected to conform to their parents wishes, but a girl’s consent was encouraged, and the importance of compatibility was recognised.

Q. How should we explain Juliet’s age in modern terms?

A. A modern Juliet would be a 17 year old girl who’s close to turning 18. We all agree that girls should marry whomever they love, but not at 17, right? We’d say she’s still a kid and needs to wait a bit before rushing into this marriage. We acknowledge that she’d be experiencing her sexual awakening, but marrying at this age is odd - she’s still a child and legally neither her nor Romeo should be marrying without parental permission.

Q. Would Elizabethans have seen Juliet as a child?

A. YES. The force of this tragedy comes from the youth of the lovers. The Montagues and Capulets have created such a hateful, violent and dangerous world for their kids to grow up in that the pangs of teenage passion are enough to destroy the future of their houses. Something as simple as two kids falling in love is enough to lead to tragedy. That is the crux of the story and it should not be glossed over - Shakespeare made Juliet 13 going on 14 for a reason. 

I saw this in my emails and couldn’t see why I’d been tagged in it (all the while nodding vehemently along) and then I saw my tags and ah. Yep. Still forever mad at how badly Shakespeare is taught in most schools.

Wait but then why does Juliet’s mother talk about being already married younger than Juliet currently is?

Likely because her match to Juliet’s father was an arranged match to solidify family names and houses in order to avoid conflicts or to establish wealth. (It also serves to denote the tragic undercurrent of the play ie love is secondary to wealth and power.)

It wasn’t so uncommon for children of royalty or nobility to be betrothed from birth, or even symbolically married, in order to make alliances. But that doesn’t mean they were engaging in the kind of adult relationship we envision when we think of marriage today.

Which isn’t to say some people didn’t buck the norm and do horrible things Margaret Beaufort is a prime example of this, which the Tudors would likely be aware of. Her first marriage contract actually happened when she was one year old. It was later dissolved and she was remarried at the age of 12, and her second husband, Edmund Tudor, did in fact get her pregnant before dying himself. She was 13 years old when she gave birth, and it caused major health issues for her and nearly killed her. When she survived it was considered miraculous. Which should tell you just how not normal this kind of thing was thought of even back then.

Avatar
rillensora

I agree with absolutely everything in this thread of discussion. Even so, my long-standing fascination with both Shakespeare and late medieval / early renaissance history makes it impossible for me to to reblog without throwing in my extra few cents:

I. Margaret Beaufort

In my mind, there are few cases that better demonstrate the tensions between medieval norms and medieval realities than that of Margaret Beaufort. Like many other women of her time, she had only one child surviving to adulthood: Henry Tudor (later Henry VII and the founder of the Tudor dynasty). In that, Margaret wasn’t so remarkable: infant mortality made this a common enough outcome, though undoubtedly a tragic one.

Where Margaret’s case was exceptional is that Henry was also her only known pregnancy, without so much as a stillbirth, infant death, or even another pregnancy ever being mentioned in connection to her. In her own time, it was commonly assumed that her experience of childbirth at a very young age was what accounted for her barrenness, and even to us today, it doesn’t seem implausible to assume some kind of physical trauma that prevented later pregnancies from taking place, given all the medical knowledge we’ve accumulated about the risks of childbirth at either extreme of age.

But there was more to this. The vast Beaufort estate that came with Margaret’s young hand were so valuable that, to 15th/16th century English minds, it perfectly explained Edmund Tudor’s motives for having been so reckless with the health of his wife: having an heir of his own would ensure that her lands would stay with him, in the name of any children they might have together, whereas the lands would pass to someone else if she should die before having a child. Of course, most men in that situation would have waited anyway, as a child whose mother died in childbirth was much less likely to survive anyway, so contemporaries portrayed Edmund Tudor’s actions as short-sighted and foolhardy at best, amoral and cruel and worst. But Fate must have a sense of irony, because Edmund died before his son was even born, while Margaret lived, and as aristocratic women tended to do in those circumstances, she was remarried to Henry Stafford, 1st Duke of Buckingham.

Since Margaret was Stafford’s first (and only) wife, he would have depended on her to give him any heirs at all, to whom he could pass on the lands he already had, let alone any of Margaret’s own (and it would be logical to assume that the Beaufort inheritance would have been no less tempting to Stafford than it was to Tudor). He must have at least hoped for children from her, and at the time, there wasn’t any reason to expect she was totally barren either: there was the traumatic birth to consider, but she was more physically mature when she remarried, and there was room to hope that widowhood had given her time to recover. And yet, despite all this, it seems few people (if any) were surprised that Margaret did not bear any more children. It didn’t seem to doom her relationship with her second husband either: on the contrary, Margaret enjoyed a happy relationship with Stafford for well over a decade until his death, so if there was any bitterness on his part over his lack of heirs, he must have managed it well. Even in the contemporary sources (who don’t tend to be charitable towards female figures), any blame for her barrenness is laid squarely at the feet of the various men who were her guardians in her early life, who clearly abused their authority over her for their own benefit, rather than to safeguard Margaret’s well-being as guardians are supposed to do (one of them being Edmund Tudor himself… he wasn’t supposed to even be in the running for her wardship, but Henry VI actually outright broke a promise he had made to Margaret’s father to let Margaret’s mother be her guardian in the event of his death).

This indicates to me even more strongly that late-medieval / Tudor people would have not only been sympathetic towards what Margaret and women like her had suffered, but also understood that neglectful attitudes towards the health and happiness of dependents have consequences. Shakespeare’s own words make this clear, at the beginning of the play:

Paris: Younger than she are happy mothers made. Capulet: And too soon marr’d are those so early made.

Tudor audiences would have understood these lines as the words of a benevolent father protecting his daughter from the advances of an overeager young suitor, invoking what seems to have been a Tudor-era trope that early marriages do not make for happy endings… not for the woman, not for her family or husband, and certainly not for the children she might otherwise have borne. Because Capulet came off as the “good father” in the beginning of the play, it makes it all the more shocking when his attitude changes and he becomes the all-too-familiar figure of the cold, uncaring patriarch who regards his children only as pawns*. I imagine the juxtaposition would have invited Tudor audiences to feel Juliet’s sense of betrayal as if it were happening to them.

* Jane Grey, the famed “nine days’ queen” was also rumored to be such a victim of her parents’ ambition: they also saw fit to force her into a marriage that she seriously objected to, and historical records point a fairly consistent picture of their callous disregard towards her wishes and genuine happiness.

II. Consent in Medieval Marriages

Twelve and fourteen are actually also important numbers in their own right, and Shakespeare’s choice to place Juliet between those two ages has an important symbolic meaning. Late medieval Catholic doctrine defined marriage as a sacrament, like the Eucharist (Communion), or Holy Orders. Many of the sacraments require those who receive them to understand what they’re getting into for the sacrament to have the desired effect. To guarantee understanding (at least from a theological perspective), you would have to be above “the age of reason”, the age at which you were considered to be able to think for yourself. Conservative definitions of the “age of reason” sometimes defined it as the age of fifteen or fourteen (or older), but was later fixed at twelve. Since marriage was one of these sacraments, a marriage where both spouses had not fully and knowingly given their consent was no marriage at all.* Therefore, twelve was considered the absolute lower age limit at which a person could marry without compromising the very spiritual foundation of the marriage itself, while fourteen was considered a safer age at which to assume the person had full control of their reasoning capacities.

The other side of the “consent” coin when it came to marriage was that consent wasn’t just a necessary condition to finalize a marriage, it was also sufficient condition. If a man and a woman had given their knowing consent to marry one another, and if they had intentionally verbalized this promise to one another and consummated their marriage, then no earthly power could invalidate this pact for any reason (outside of a few very specific ones, like incest) without risking damnation. Witnesses were convenient as a way to prove that the marriage had taken place, if a family member or some segment of society disapproved of the match, but they weren’t needed in order to make the marriage spiritually valid. Basically, the Catholic Church at this stage somehow ended up putting the idea of consent at the very heart of the idea of what made a marriage valid or not, and this had consequences not only because of the threat of hellfire, but also because Church law was secular law when it came to domestic matters like marriage and divorce. And then it came to pass that the English Reformation left this specific area of the doctrine mostly untouched, so the Tudors would have had similar ideas surrounding the question of consent and marriage as did their late medieval forbears.

This theological point is not only the whole raison d’etre for the most central plot device in the play, but also adds an extra note of pathos to Juliet’s situation and an extra layer of moral judgment towards Lord Capulet’s behavior. If she did not insist on keeping her marriage vow, or if she married Paris knowing full well that she had already been married, both of those would be mortal sins for which she would risk damnation. And by extension, because he used duress against Juliet to try to make her comply with his sinful wish, Lord Capulet has also damned himself (albeit unknowingly, but even so, the narrative clearly presents forcing his daughter’s marriage as something he should know better than to do, anyway).

Until this point, Juliet’s marriage is characterized as an impulsive decision such as only foolish youth could make, but ironically, in that confrontation with Lord Capulet, this slip of a young girl is now portrayed as conducting herself with far more spiritual maturity and grace than any of the adults around her. Her parents are failing in their duty towards her by putting their dynastic concerns ahead of her health and happiness (when it’s been made clear they already know this is a Bad Idea), and her Nurse, who actually knows about the secret marriage and all the reasons why it cannot be taken back, is actively pleading with her to just forget it and pretend Romeo never was. Juliet’s choice here is monumental, because it involves not only disregarding her parents, but also an active decision to completely break with the woman who has been with her for literally everything in her life up to that point, a break so thorough that even Nurse herself doesn’t know that it’s happened. This dramatic turning point is a bittersweet portrait of the girl losing her innocence and growing up into an adult, from one angle, and from another angle it’s a paean to the pure-hearted idealism (different from the limpid innocence of childhood in that it’s willful and risk-taking, and fiery in quality) that can only be found in the young. Either way, it does Juliet’s character AND Shakespeare’s dramatic talents a massive disservice to portray her situation as something so simplistic or reactionary as lovelorn pining after an absent boyfriend, or rebelling against her parents, or “staying true to her own heart”.

This wasn’t just a plot device for the stage: many real-life lovers leaned on this feature of the Church’s teachings, when faced with the opposition of their families and communities, and in many cases, the Church was indeed forced to side with the couple, however reluctantly. Margery Paston, the daughter of a genteel landowning family in the 15th century, and Richard Calle, the Paston family’s longtime housekeeper, were one such case of a real-life Romeo and Juliet: they mutually fell in love, and married in secret when they came up against heavy opposition from Margery’s family. The Pastons responded by separating them, firing Calle from his job and having him sent to London, while Margery remained in Norfolk under house arrest. There, she seems to have been subjected to ongoing and intense pressure to walk back her marriage… if the couple had been married formally in church, this would not have been possible, but secret marriages were vulnerable to challenges like this because they were secret. A witness would have helped her and Calle’s case and made it more airtight, but even if the couple had had any, apparently the Pastons had succeeded in intimidating them into silence.

But even though the Pastons seemed to be winning, it’s hard to believe that bystanders wouldn’t have objected to at least some of what the Pastons were doing to try and get their way. Otherwise, Calle could not have written Margery in 1469, during their separation, saying “I suppose if you tell them sadly the truth, they will not damn their souls for us”. Their situation was objectively quite bleak.  For the months they were apart, it was made very clear to both Margery and Calle that, if the couple continued to insist on their marriage, the Pastons would disown Margery and throw her out of the house, therefore leaving her with few options for survival, let alone to find her way to Calle over a distance of a hundred miles. He mournfully acknowledges that their gamble might fail, and their worst fears might come true, but there is also defiance in his resignation, as he concludes, “if they will in no wise agree [to respect our marriage], between God, the Devil and them be it.”

Margery, for her part, was no less determined. When Margery was finally brought before the local bishop, he turned out to be sympathetic towards the Paston family, and gave Margery a long speech about the importance of pleasing her family and community (so much for the theological importance of consent, but then, clerical hypocrisy was nothing new to medieval people). But Margery remained steadfast (in fact, I am inclined to think from her next words that the bishop’s words only goaded her to greater resolve) and when she spoke, she not only continued to insist that she had said what she had said, but according to her mother she “boldly” added, “if those words made it not sure […] she would make it surer before she went thence, for she said she thought in her conscience she was bound [in marriage to Calle], whatsoever the words were.” Her wording left absolutely no room for doubt in the mind of even the most flexible theologian. And when Calle was cross-examined and his testimony found to match that of Margery’s, the bishop of Norfolk had no choice but to rule in the couple’s favor.

Margery’s mother did indeed make good on her word: she did both disown Margery and throw her out of the house. She seemed to have done it more to save face, however, than to actually punish her daughter, since she does seem to have made arrangements behind the scenes for Margery to stay with sympathetic neighbors. In the end, Calle was right, the Pastons were not willing to risk their own souls. Margery and Richard Calle got their happy ending, and had at least three children (and we know about them because we know Margery’s mother left them money in her own will).

* This also meant that Edmund Tudor actually would have been Margaret Beaufort’s first husband, not her second. It was true that she had already been “in a marriage” before being married later to Tudor, but strictly speaking, it was only a precontract (what we today would think of as an engagement) with signficance limited to the secular realm; there are a lot of reasons this would not have really been considered a marriage at the time, but the most theologically pertinent one is that the bride’s consent could not have been involved, because she was too young to be able to give it. Consequently, this paper marriage was easily dissolved as soon as her guardians thought it more politically expedient to marry her to Edmund Tudor. And for all intents and purposes, Margaret Beaufort herself considered Tudor to be her first husband, not John de la Pole.

tl;dr: the study of Shakespeare cannot be separated from historical and societal understanding of the times he lived in, and frankly, it’s a terrible shame that English classes don’t emphasize this more, because then you’re throwing out about 80% of the meaning his works actually hold.

Sorry to keep reblogging this long post but holy shit this is an excellent addition. Thank you for taking the time to write all that up.

I will forever be grateful to my eleventh-grade English teacher, Mrs. Shaw, who taught us that when analyzing literature it is not only wise but absolutely essential to consider not only the author’s other works, but also the historical context in which it was written.

I was today years old when I learned that I was taught Romeo and Juliet wrong even AFTER being in the play.

@thebibliosphere do you know if it’s common for people to know the age of Juliet solidly and then think that the reason everything was dodgy was because Romeo was like 17/18 years old? Cause like…

Anyone I asked about Romeo’s age said “he’s like. An adult. A young one but an adult.” So for all my life I assumed Romeo was 18 going on 19 or 17 going on 18 while Juliet was just hardly a teenager.

Oh man, this is an old, old post.

Full disclaimer: I’m obviously no expert–just a former Shakespearian theater kid with a love of history–but no, Romeo is not eighteen, and nor was he considered an adult.

That’s a very modern perspective, and I suspect it comes from people latching onto the idea that if Juliet was considered legally old enough to be married at fourteen, then Romeo’s slight advantage in years must mean he was considered an adult when this is not at all how a Tudor audience would have viewed it.

Also, I don’t know where the idea that Romeo is eighteen/fully an adult came from, because Romeo’s age is unspecified in the original text, though the consensus is that he’s between the ages of fifteen at a minimum and seventeen at most. Neither an adult by our terms nor by Tudor ones.

As noted above, the minimum legal age for marriage in the Tudor era was twelve years old for noble girls, but what we did not mention was the legal age for boys, which was fourteen. So if we take the stance that Romeo is intended to be fifteen to sixteen, possibly hovering on the verge of seventeen, in the context of the times, he’s still considered barely old enough to marry, same as Juliet. He still needs the permission of his parents to marry because he is not considered legally old enough to make this decision himself.

His behavior isn’t that of a predatory adult pursuing a child (we’ll get to that) but that of a young man in the midst of his teens pursuing someone in both a suitable age range and social class for his standing. And from a thematic standpoint: the age and social class where your family might orchestrate a match to solidify alliances or to end a blood war if only they had their shit together.

This becomes very clear when you take into consideration the added context that most commoners didn’t marry until their mid-to-late-twenties when they’d had a chance to become financially established and also become both physically mature and strong enough to survive childbirth. There were, of course, always exceptions to this rule, but we’re speaking in generalities here. Only the rich married their kids off young, and most of the time there would have been clauses in place to prevent the girl from getting pregnant too young and dying in childbirth.

Basically, the entire Tudor audience, both noble and common, would have been watching this tragedy unfold on stage, clutching their pearls and going “Oh god they’re babies. Where are the parents?!”

To which the answer is “embroiled in a blood feud and not paying attention to the things that are happening under their nose until it’s too late.”

Paris, on the other hand, the suitor Juliet’s father wants to pair her with, and let’s be clear here, the man making it very clear he’s interested in her sexually, is twenty-five.

That line up above about “happy mother’s made”? That’s Paris, a twenty-five-year-old man looking at a fourteen-year-old girl and announcing that he not only wants to bed her but considers it fine for girls even younger than fourteen to become mothers. The man is a one-man parade of red flags, and that’s also what makes Juliet’s father switch so villainous. He’d rather marry his child off to a full-grown man who doesn’t care for her safety in the marital bed than resolve the feud with the Montagues, and the Tudor audience would have been deeply uncomfortable with this narrative, same as us.

So no, Romeo and Juliet isn’t a mess because Romeo was an adult. Romeo and Juliet is a mess because both Romeo and Juliet are functionally children trying to act like adults because no one else is. Not their parents, not the priest. And that’s the root of the tragedy.

It’s not a moral about problematic age gaps–though that is highlighted through Paris–it’s a moral about allowing vengeance to cloud your judgment and letting the children, the innocents who don’t know any better, try to behave like adults because you’ve left a void and would rather seek death than a peaceful resolution.

And I (still) really wish it was taught better in schools.

Avatar
Avatar
ms-demeanor

For real your cellphone and your computer should 100% NOT be backing up your photo storage or anything else to any variety of icloud or onedrive.

I'm aware that in some ways I'm a weird luddite but this is one of the major, major problems that I have with so much of the modern technology landscape existing as tools that allow you to access your data rather than tools which allow you to store your data.

Look at the data that you have. Look at what you are storing. Ask yourself "if the internet stopped working tomorrow, would I be able to access this information?"

If the answer is "no" you have 2 problems:

1 - You don't actually have that information and can easily lose access to it.

2 - You may not know who DOES have access to that information. If it's encrypted storage you're probably somewhat secure, but IS it encrypted storage? Or is it stored in plaintext on someone else's server?

So my deal with the EARN IT Act is that I don't super duper trust any of our government systems to do fuck all. I think it's worthwhile to contact your representatives, but I don't know that it will actually DO anything.

However YOU can do something.

If you don't want your data accessible to companies that will scan it and test it and pass it on to the government, don't give those companies your data.

Store things locally. Learn how to send and share encrypted files. If you have to store things online, store them with encryption that *you* have set up.

Honestly I'm pretty sure this is going to be bad. I'm pretty sure there are going to be significant security compromises as a result of the EARN IT Act and that we're going to get so buried in breached data that it's going to fundamentally alter how we have to identify ourselves in ways that will be more difficult to use while making people easier to track.

It's shit, and I hate it, and the internet is getting smaller and more fenced in and the big fun platforms that were easy to use and that let people of all technical skill levels share and collaborate that we had a couple decades to explore are now things that will just be a means of exploitation.

It fuckin' blows, friends.

But it also means that NOW is the time to fundamentally re-think how you interact with the internet. Ask yourself how you send data, and where you keep it. Ask yourself who has your information and how it is secured. Ask yourself what would happen if someone who hated you had access to your primary email account for a day, and ask yourself how you would try to fix what they fucked up.

EARN IT sucks, but this is NOT one of those instances in which you are helpless if it passes. Right now, before it passes, talk to the non-internet people in your life about why it is bad:

- It will mean that the government can see all your stored files - It will mean the websites you store files on will not be allowed to encrypt those files - It will mean that any asshole hacker who can access those systems can access all that data that will now be unencrypted.

This shitty act will make EVERYONE who uses the websites that are subject to the EARN IT act more vulnerable to data breaches, ID theft, and exploitation from hackers while ALSO enabling effortless surveillance by our own government.

This is bad, so tell your relatives and friends and co-workers to tell their representatives WHY it is bad by using this site: https://act.eff.org/action/stop-the-earn-it-act-to-save-our-privacy

The site is very easy to use and literally you do not even have to navigate to a separate page to contact your representatives.

And in case that doesn't work, in case it passes anyway, ask yourself what you're doing. Ask yourself who has your data. Ask yourself who can see what you've stored online, and learn what you need to do to make sure the answer is "*I* own my data, and I control who has access to it."

Hey also: get used to a slow internet again.

It sucks trying to use a site like Tumblr or Twitter through a VPN or on TOR. It's slow and terrible because they are BIG sites moving a lot of data.

It's maybe time to start setting up email lists and forums for the people you want to be in touch with. Make sure that you don't only know your online friends through their social media profiles, but have other ways of contacting the people you care about.

If tumblr went down *today*, right now, who would you be able to find elsewhere on the internet and who would you lose forever? If discord got taken down tomorrow, is there somewhere else online that you'd be able to tell a friend who you are?

Pretend it's 1995, pretend you've got rudimentary internet access, because if EARN IT passes I think that's kind of what we're going to have to go back to - especially if you're engaged in any kind of activism or any activity that is frowned-upon by most of society.

No despairing on my posts, only radicalizing.

If you want to take action here are some things that you can do TODAY that will make you less vulnerable to these sorts of harms:

  • Create an account on Cryptpad.Fr - Cryptpad is an open-source, zero knowledge collaboration tool that is an excellent browser-based replacement for Gsuite. It doesn't have app support, but it is a really fantastic tool to work on shared documents in a secure way. You don't even have to have an account to access and work on a document. Free accounts come with 1GB of personal storage; this is actually a LOT of storage if you're keeping in good practice of storing your important files locally rather than online. It's also a great free, non-google, non-microsoft office suite that is more portable than Libre Office. If you do have the funds to support them as well as creating an account, please consider it.
  • Create a ProtonMail account. Protonmail is an end-to-end encrypted email service based in Switzerland that allows you to create free accounts with a limited amount of storage. Please note: while ProtonMail has zero-knowledge storage, they can be compelled to produce the user information that they have access to, including login and IP address data. If you need to make sure that no one knows you're logging in to protonmail you need to log in through an anonymizer like TOR.
  • Learn how to use TOR - which is very easy; it's pretty much like just using any other browser. Download it, install it, poke around a bit, and do some light-weight browsing. People think it's scary because it's something that hackers use and that governments yell about; it's not. It's also not ideal for day-to-day use, but it's good to already have it running when you need it instead of scrambling to use it in a panic if the EARN IT act passes.
  • Start using a password manager. If there is nothing else from this list that you do today, this is the one thing you should do. The other stuff can wait until later, but if the internet may soon be less secure as a result of EARN IT, the very least that you can do is secure your logins. Bitwarden is a free, portable, exceptionally functional Open Source password manager that has wonderful resources on its website that teach people at all skill levels how to effectively use the product. Please, Please, Please, PLEASE as the random ass hacker-type person in your life I am *BEGGING* you to use a password manager. And Bitwarden is free, but if you get the paid version for $10 a year you can get encrypted file storage and sending tools as a part of the package. Learning how to create and send encrypted files can be confusing and frightening for people who haven't done it before. It is VERY easy with Bitwarden and they have a lot of accessible info teaching you how to use that tool.

The time has come for us to all become badass security nerds, friends. These are the first little steps and the nice thing is that they are very easy steps that will take you a long way toward being more secure online.

Alright.

I am concerned about statements like this:

Unless you cite your sources and explain to me in technical terms how you think that Tor is being used by the NSA as a honeypot this is not a reasonable statement to make.

Tor DOES receive a large amount of funding by the US government. Tor DOES work on active projects with the military.

Do you know why?

Because intelligence agencies have a very strong incentive to ensure that there is a widely-available tool used by lots of people to anonymize traffic.

Because a traffic anonymizer that is exclusively used by intelligence agencies is a dead giveaway that the only people using it are fucking feds and spies.

So here's my problem: Tor is the absolute easiest way for people with the lowest level of technical skill to attain some kind of IP anonymization online.

It isn't perfect, and the system isn't invulnerable to attacks, and there are legitimate reasons to be concerned about the ways that traffic can be monitored.

There HAS been evidence of Tor reporting vulnerabilities to the FBI before they report it to general users. There HAVE been problems with people using the network getting fingerprinted and tracked.

But a lot of complaints about Tor's use by the government look like this:

While Syverson indicated that some of the security issues identified by this research have been addressed in recent Tor versions, the findings only added to a growing list of other research and anecdotal evidence showing Tor’s not as safe as its boosters want you to think — especially when pitted against determined intelligence agencies.
Case-in-point: In December 2013, a 20-year-old Harvard panicked overachiever named Edlo Kim learned just how little protection Tor offered for would be terrorists.
To avoid taking a final exam he wasn’t prepared for, Kim hit up on the idea of sending in a fake bomb threat. То cover his tracks, he used Tor, supposedly the best anonymity service the web had to offer. But it did little mask his identity from a determined Uncle Sam. A joint investigation, which involved the FBI, the Secret Service and local police, was able to track the fake bomb threat right back to Kim — in less than 24 hours.
As the FBI complaint explained, “Harvard University was able to determine that, in the several hours leading up to the receipt of the e-mail messages described above, ELDO KIM accessed TOR using Harvard’s wireless network.” All that Tor did was make the cops jump a few extra steps. But it wasn’t hard, nothing that a bit of manpower with full legal authority to access network records couldn’t solve. It helped that Harvard’s network logging all metadata access on the network — sorta like the NSA.

(bolding mine)

Did you catch that? Someone sent a bomb threat via Tor over a wireless network that logged all user metadata and this author is suggesting that's a problem with *Tor.*

In 2013, they took down Freedom Hosting, which was accused of being a massive child porn hosting operation — but not before taking control of its servers and intercepting all of its communication with customers. The FBI did the same thing that same year with the online drug superstore Silkroad, which also ran its services in the Tor cloud. Although, rookie mistakes helped FBI unmask the identity of Dred Pirate Roberts, it is still a mystery how they were able to totally take over and control, and even copy, a server run in the Tor cloud — something that is supposed to be impossible.

And some more:

Back in 2007, a Swedish hacker/researcher named Dan Egerstad showed that just by running a Tor node, he could siphon and read all the unencrypted traffic that went through his chunk of the Tor network. He was able to access logins and passwords to accounts of NGOs, companies, and the embassies of India and Iran. Egerstad thought at first that embassy staff were just being careless with their info, but quickly realized that he had actually stumbled on a hack/surveillance operation in which Tor was being used to covertly access these accounts.

Uh. This guy's primary method of attacking Tor seems to be pointing out that Tor doesn't encrypt traffic and so people get caught using it when their traffic is unencrypted.

That is a LOT of the criticism that you see about Tor.

Yeah. It's not a VPN. It's a traffic anonymizer.

Look. Buds.

Tor isn't an NSA honeypot that is snooping on your traffic. Tor is a decent anonymizing tool that is run by an open source project and largely funded by the US government because they can't do their gray man hide in plain sight bullshit if they're the only one walking around.

Here's Luckygreen, an oldschool cypherpunk and crypto activist, talking about Tor as it was being conceived of in 1997:

At the FC'97 rump session, Paul Syverson from NRL presented a paper titled "Onion Routing". The description of the system sounds very much like Wei Dai's PipeNet. However, the development team seems to be unaware of PipeNet and the discussions about it that we had in the past. NLR has currently five machines implementing the protocol. Connection setup time is claimed to be 500 ms. They are looking for volunteers to run "Onion Routers". It appears the US military wants to access websites without giving away the fact that they are accessing the sites and is looking to us to provide the cover traffic. What a fortunate situation.

And here's some more from him on the topic:

>What do you think of the "onion routing" approach from the group at Naval Postgraduate? How would compare it to this newest proposal? Neither one of them is any good in its present form. The folks at the FC'97 rump session got to watch Jim and myself poke truck sized holes into the NRL design within seconds of them ending their presentation. :-) Here was a US military research lab presenting a system they thought would give them a way to surf the Net anonymously by using the public for cover traffic. [Let me just spell out here that I believe that the people from NRL and Cypherpunks are on the same side on this issue. Their concern is COMSEC, not SIGINT.]

If you don't know what that last sentence in brackets means, let me explain it:

Comsec is communications security; sigint is signals intelligence. Comsec means keeping your own comms secure; signals intelligence is deriving intelligence from intercepted signals.

The NSA/CIA/FBI/US Navy are all interested in making sure that Tor is alive and well and running but it is largely so that they can send their own messages on a well-supported, widely used tool. This is widely and openly discussed in emails between developers and intelligence agencies and it is being reframed as "the NSA is using this tool to spy on you."

Again, Tor is not perfect. It does not encrypt your traffic and it is possible - with a significant amount of effort, time, and expense - to exploit the Tor network to eliminate anonymization.

But unless you can articulate how to deanonymize Tor traffic *separate from the now-six-and-eight-year-old attacks in 2014 and 2016* I can't take you seriously when you talk about how Tor isn't a useful tool and/or is some kind of honeypot or data gathering scheme.

It is either a fundamental or wilful misunderstanding of how this technology works and what it is meant to do to act as though it's useless to use Tor because Tor is *also* used by the military and CIA.

Tor is one of the better tools out there to anonymize your IP address. It is vital to OSINT researchers, hackers, activists, and whistleblowers. Telling people NOT to use this tool while not providing a better solution with instructions on how to use it is the kind of misinformation that ruins people's lives.

I will agree that it's equally harmful to pretend that Tor is perfectly protective, and you should not walk away from this conversation thinking that you can just log in to Tor and have perfectly anonymous traffic (just like you can't believe that your traffic is secret if you use a VPN) but every time I bring up Tor there are ostensible leftists in the comments saying "throw out one of our best tools because the NSA likes it" and that's like saying "don't use the internet because it was developed by DARPA and the FBI uses it and monitors it." These statements are technically true, but the risk associated with these facts doesn't outweigh the benefits of using the tools, it just means you need to be careful with how you handle them.

You are using an unsupported browser and things might not work as intended. Please make sure you're using the latest version of Chrome, Firefox, Safari, or Edge.
mouthporn.net