from axe to zee other axe

Seeing Red is something that doesn’t happen in a vacuum. It is the culmination of months of unsafe consent play between Buffy and Spike, a sexual relationship that literally started with violence. And immediately from the word go, they engaged in this “you want this” “no I don’t” “you do” “stop” “make me” that always ended in consensual sex. This is counterbalanced with a campaign of consistent psychological and physical abuse from a very unwell Buffy, who keeps insisting she doesn’t want or like Spike, that he is a thing and nothing more, but negating words with action. BUT IMPORTANTLY, THIS IS NOT A "BLAME BUFFY" SCENARIO. She was going through something that literally no one, not even the writers, could understand, and she had virtually no support from the people in her life who she counted on as they were the ones that put her in this situation in the first place. She doesn't know or like or love herself, and she lashes out at the only person who is trying to know and like and love her as a result.

Hurt people hurt people, and all that.

Spike is by definition ill-equipped to help her manage her depression, though he does try. For him, not being human was the release from a life of misery, his liberation of the expectation of others and society. He has selfish reasons for wanting Buffy to be “in the dark” because he believes they can be together there, but I also genuinely think he believes it is what is best for her and doesn’t understand why she resists when he knows firsthand the peace that not-giving-a-fuck can bring. All the while Buffy resists this because of course she does—being “dark” is antithetical to who she is as a person, and she becomes more disillusioned with herself and the person she has chosen (and continues to choose) to help her manage a life she doesn’t want.

So Spike is getting many mixed messages as well as being at war with his innate demonic impulses and desires. He loves Buffy but he can’t love her the way she needs to be loved the most during this time. He wants her but he wants her to be happy (as established in Hell’s Bells). He knows she wants him (she’s told him and repeatedly shown him), but he’s also been dehumanized, objectified, and told that he is not a person, that his feelings are nonexistent or irrelevant. Up until Buffy was resurrected, Buffy was Spike’s barometer for morality, as established in Intervention and going forward. He began to fashion himself based on what he thought she would want, up to and including staying with Dawn the summer after she died. But his moral compass (Buffy) is broken, and he is trying to both follow her cues and guide her to a conclusion that benefits him, which is something that he naturally cannot help but want because he is a demon and demons are inherently selfish.

So after months of this dubious consent play, this no-meaning-yes, this psychological deconstruction of his value, the utter heartbreak of losing her in As You Were just when he thought they might be starting something real, Spike is at rock bottom. To add insult to injury, Buffy accuses him of Warren’s crime (surveillance) and tells him that his feelings are real for him but not for her and to move on. He’s crushed. And he goes and gets drunk and has sex with Anya. Then he hears that Buffy was devastated by watching him and Anya, and he thinks maybe, maybe there is hope. She can’t be through with him if she’s hurt by watching him move on or try to. So he goes to talk to her. This is one of the crucial elements of the scene. Spike did not step into that bathroom with an intent to assault her. He was there to apologize. To explain what he did. He tells Buffy she should’ve let Xander kill him because he truly feels he has no worth now. Except Buffy couldn’t let Xander kill him, and why? There’s still a kernel there. Something in her that wants him. She tells him so. And so Spike does what has always worked before, the “you want this” approach that Buffy resists and resists and resists, and she’s not giving in this time, but she will, he just has to persist, she will give in, he’s been here before, except no, she doesn’t. There’s a line in The West Wing when one of the main characters has a trauma response and does something that should have gotten him fired (yell at the President of the United States over something small), and later, he’s told that he wasn’t “fully conscious while he said it” because he wasn’t in his right mind. Spike didn’t know he was sexually assaulting her while it was happening. It didn’t hit him until after it was over, until he realized exactly what he had done.

And that’s what’s important to me. What Spike does with that knowledge. He is horrified, disgusted, confused, stranded in that “you’re not a person” space, but if he’s not a person, what is he? Not a demon, because a demon wouldn’t feel the way he feels after doing what he nearly did. Wouldn’t be tormented by the thought that he just hurt the woman he loved in a horrible, unforgivable way that he can never make right. What are his options? He kills the demon—he chooses to be a man over a demon, specifically the sort of man who would never do what he just did. So he seeks out a way to win his soul back. He could have Willow or Tara curse him, but it needs to not be a curse, it needs to be a choice. One that nearly kills him in the making. There is no punishment more fitting for him than to be saddled with something that will make him not only experience the full of what he did to Buffy, but to everyone he’s ever hurt or killed. Most importantly, when Spike returns with his soul, he is not Angel redux. He does not insist on Buffy’s time or space, knows he has no right to it. Every step that brings them closer together is a step she takes, not him. He encourages her to move on, to not act in a way to spare his feelings, does not make his love for her or his jealousy/sadness over the prospect of her moving on her problem. He will never try to take choice away from her again or convince her that she deserves anything less than what she wants. He will also listen to her when she tells him that he is part of what she wants, rather than assuming he knows best.

In essence, I can accept Seeing Red because it was the culmination of a deeply unhealthy/unbalanced relationship that left Spike dehumanized, without an identity of any sort, and occurred in the midst of a mental breakdown. It wasn’t done to exert power over Buffy, to dominate her, but out of desperation and grief, and he didn’t realize he was doing it until it was over. The steps he takes once he DOES realize what he’s doing is how I can still support him and ship Spuffy with every fiber of my being. Had it gone any other way in S7, I might not still be here. But he is the only male character in the show who fucks up this bad who assumes responsibility for that fuck up and accepts whatever he has coming to him. He also understands that his soul is not Buffy’s problem, that she owes him nothing, that he is the sum of his choices and actions. It’s that accountability and that respect and that understanding that ACTION is what matters, not apologies or self-hatred or brooding, that makes him the best male character in the show for me.

Other thoughts:

Without a doubt, one of the most satisfying moments in the series for me is in 7x21 when Buffy shows up and saves the Potentials with the Scythe that she took from Caleb. At the vineyard. Where she went by herself after everyone betrayed her when she was RIGHT. She didn't let their betrayal and abandonment stop her from going there and figuring out what was being hidden from her. Yes, a huge, huge part of that was Spike. Him coming and being there for her gave her the strength to do what needed to be done. But she still did it alone. She didn't even ask for his help. She got the Scythe, and it saved everyone.

And I'm STILL salty that she didn't say "I told you so" to all of the people who betrayed her. Or at the very least made some pointed remarks about how she went to the vineyard alone to find what was being hidden.

i gotta go to sleep but first let me just say in btvs 5x22 “the gift” when spike and buffy go to buffy’s house there’s that little moment of disconnect where spike is very aware that he can’t enter and he doesn’t try to push the issue at all, he’s just like i can wait here and you can hand me the weapons, but buffy doesn’t seem to remember at first that he’s not allowed in, like it just doesn’t occur to her, and when he reminds her she readily gives him permission. and you can see him smiling but like trying not to make a big deal out of it but he’s obviously so pleased and so moved. i just love seeing that slight disconnect in their relationship where spike thinks he’s not welcome inside, because that was what she told him the last time it came up, and he didn’t want to respect it then but he’s respecting it now. whereas buffy in the past few episodes has come to rely so much on spike and has such comfort and trust in him at least with certain things that in her mind she’s just like, well obviously he’s allowed in, that’s not even a question. and in this little moment you see how thrilled and honored he is to be trusted this way. oh it’s so cute

i was thinking earlier about… how willow is (amazing, wonderful, an amazon) an incredibly tragic character, because essentially all of her self-worth comes from external sources, and once she no longer has that, she crashes and burns to such an epic extent.

this is a girl who was bullied and rejected by her peers since childhood, and whose parents never gave her the time of day. in episode 1, she is no longer willing or able to take up space. and then she meets buffy.

buffy chooses to spend time with her, and wants to talk to her, and doesn’t want her to go away! this gives willow enough of a boost to stand up against cordelia in episode 2. (“she’s not a pyscho loony. you don’t even know her.”) i think this a testament to how strong willow is - or rather, it suggests that she had strength and fight inside her all along, she just needed someone else to believe she could/should be heard. willow’s self-confidence seems to grow as she spends more time with buffy, with her strength beginning to mirror buffy’s own. at the end of season 2, buffy and willow are put through parallel tests of strength as buffy physically fights angelus, and willow works the spell to restore angel’s soul.

in season 3, as she learns more spells, she begins to feel more useful to the gang (and to buffy, specifically). the arrival of faith threatens her new confidence. when she perceives that buffy is repeatedly choosing to spend time with faith over her, and when buffy tells her that she can’t understand it (“it’s kind of a slayer thing”), willow feels understandably hurt - but it’s deeper than that. she questions her usefulness. she questions if buffy really needs her - and if buffy doesn’t need her, why would she stick around? (she's already left willow once.) after all, buffy had sought her out originally to help her with her studies. and then! willow had found she could apply her computer skills to help out with buffy’s slaying duties. up until this point in their relationship… they’re best friends, they talk about life stuff, they look out for one another - and willow helps buffy in every way she can. she needs to be needed, and when that’s taken away from her, she hurts, and she falters.

all in all, willow comes out of this season pretty strong. she has a cool boyfriend (in a band!), they lose faith to the dark side (no more competition for buffy's or xander's affection!), and willow chooses to stay in sunnydale to fight the good fight - and she explains, fairly convincingly, that it’s not for buffy, but for herself.

and then in season 4, willow meets tara. in this moment, willow becomes buffy: she becomes the one to share her strength and confidence with another person. throughout their relationship, we watch as willow - now brimming with power - helps to bring out the strength and fight in tara, too. what’s fascinating to me is that there are two opposite ways to look at their relationship. one is the way that tara sees it: that the light in her is all because of willow. the other is the way that willow sees it: that the light in her is all because of tara.

willow’s insecurities go deep. it’s suggested that willow hates herself, and/or feels like some sort of fraud. in 4x22 restless, buffy peels away willow’s “costume” to reveal her season 1 self. willow herself makes disparaging remarks about the nerd she used to be.

losing tara hurts because she loves tara immensely, but there's an undercurrent of something else here: willow loves tara so much more than she loves herself that tara's existence becomes her only reason to live. when willow loses tara to glory’s mind-suck, she goes on a suicide mission to fight the goddess. when she loses tara to her own magic addiction, she falls deeper and deeper in the hole, essentially erasing herself as she lets her own mind be consumed. and when she loses tara for good in seeing red, she loses everything. the will to live. the will for the world to exist. in a moment of lucidity, she says to buffy: “the only thing i had going for me… were the moments - just moments - when tara would look at me, and i was wonderful. and that will never happen again.”

it is tragic to me that willow feels this way, after all she’s been through. that after all the progress she made, she never learned to love herself - only the part of herself that was reflected in tara, and now that’s gone forever, along with the one she loved most in the world.

if i think for one single second about how spike stays in sunnydale to help raise dawn (because he said he would) and fight alongside the scoobies (because she would’ve wanted him to) even while knowing she was gone forever…. i want to start screaming and never stop

all without a fucking soul, mind

In 5x03, The Replacement, it's deeply relevant that only the better half of Xander is dedicated to and focused on Anya. This foreshadows their almost-wedding so well, which showcased Xander at his weakest and most insecure. This episode highlights what he wanted in his future: a stable job with upward mobility, a woman who keeps him on task and doesn't hide her vulnerabilities, and above-ground housing. However, his weak half doesn't think waking up in the dump is unusual for him, thinks he'll get fired, has no faith in his abilities, and barely thinks of Anya at all.

This is why it's important to pay attention to his better half's dedication to Anya: she has no problem with who she is, expects other people to appreciate and put up with her (as they should), and makes no effort to present herself as other than who she is. This is the epitome of what his better half wants, and his weakest half can't stand to face: holding a clear mirror to himself and embracing his reflection.

god but one of the things that makes spike so much better as a partner for buffy is the fact that he's actually involved in her life. he spends time with her friends separately from her. he enjoys hanging out with her mother in a way that has nothing to do with buffy herself. he spends time with dawn because he likes her and feels protective towards her. and even though he actually does make a promise to buffy in that regard, it's so clear that he just enjoys dawn's company, too. and joyce and dawn especially seem to enjoy his company right back.

i mean half of angel's screentime on this show is just waiting for him to show up. watching him drop cryptic unhelpful one liners while withholding information that could save lives and then leaving before even saying goodbye. he alienates buffy's friends and goes behind her back with them at the same time. he doesn't spend time with her family and clearly isn't liked by joyce. he promises to protect buffy and then promptly bails. he leads buffy on while involving her in an emotional tug of war, and then strings her along long after he's broken things off "for her own good".

he says he needs to be stronger than human to protect buffy, but then he leaves her to her fate. he doesn't seem to care about dawn, he doesn't seem to care about joyce, and he seems to dislike her friends. his presence in her life is anathema and unreliable, and it's not even because he's a vampire, it's because he's trying to cultivate an image to engage buffy that just doesn't fit.

btvs season 1 episode 10 "nightmares" is a story about abuse, and more specifically about a young boy who has been abused by an authority figure. in a very real sense, the titular nightmares stem from this act of abuse—they're of course doing some metaphorical work on the level of individual character (e.g. willow's opera dream represents her fear of being scrutinized and "found out"), but as they all come from billy, we can also understand them as a metaphor for the kind of unreasoning fear an abusive authority figure might inspire in a child under their care.

see buffy's behavior, for example. this episode identifies buffy with billy—she serves as a kind of proxy for him, running from the monster with him and ultimately helping him defeat it. it's the running that's interesting here. buffy describes the ugly man as "too strong" for her to fight, something we only rarely see her do, and usually in reference to enemies of a far greater caliber than this kind of villain‐of-the-week. in fact, buffy spends a big chunk of this episode in abject fear!

in the end, of course, she faces down the ugly man and saves the day. it takes her a good while, though, and by that time someone else has beaten her to the punch (🤡) and already faced his fears.

despite his connection with buffy in this episode, the fact that billy is a young boy who has been physically abused by someone who was supposed to look after him positions him as a much more direct parallel to xander, who at various points in the show is heavily implied to have been (and at this point in time presumably still is) a victim of abuse at his parents' hand. interesting, then, that it's specifically xander who turns around and decks his nightmare in the face!

it's played as a comedic beat, and there's not much in the way of on-screen justification for xander's sudden burst of courage, but given the context of the episode it feels significant that it's him. in fact, if the ugly man represents billy's baseball coach, then there's no reason why we can't understand the clown (textually an adult who terrorized xander when he was a child) as a stand-in for xander's parents.

what's more, towards the end of the episode, when billy is "unmasking" the ugly man, willow expresses confusion—but xander says, "i get it." out of all of them, he's the one who understands exactly what billy is going through. this similarity between them is further underscored by xander's line in the final scene, when buffy expresses disbelief at the coach's actions: "you obviously haven't played kiddy league. i'm surprised it wasn't one of the parents."

"i get it." and of course he would. he's been there himself.

Honestly, I feel so bad for Dawnie. The fact that this poor girl isn’t a solid mass of 100% abandonment issues is a goddamn miracle. Her parents are divorced and her dad is completely missing in action and then over the course of a little more than a year, her mom died, her sister died, her sister came back to life but deeply traumatized and emotionally unavailable, Spike was largely pushed out of her life by Buffy’s return, Willow and Tara broke up and Tara moved out, Giles left, Willow got so deep into her addiction that she emotionally abandoned Dawn and also got her hit by a car, Xander and Anya broke up and Anya went back to being a demon, Tara died, Spike left, and Willow left. And all Dawn gets up to is some light shoplifting and one wish for them all to spend time together? Why doesn’t Dawn get to burn down a school, she fucking deserves it.

i get that spike/spuffy antis have to hate season seven on principle (and the fact that they act like spike’s arc is entirely frivolous and unimportant is so wildly dismissive of buffy’s i don’t think they actually even like her!), but so many are straight up factually incorrect about what actually happens. i don’t know if it’s a media literacy issue or a choice to be obstinate. probably a mixture. when you want something to be a certain way, misunderstanding something gives you room to declare yourself right.

their main talking point is that ensouled spike forces his presence on buffy. this… just doesn’t happen even once in the season. at all.

spike doesn’t return to sunnydale to see buffy. he goes back to the hellmouth. probably because it’s all he knows, as a demon he considers it home, and not for nothing he’s already being controlled by the first who wants him in place for a specific purpose.

in the first episode, lessons, buffy comes across spike on her own. he’s at some of his most insane for this interaction, and he walks away from her. in the next episode, beneath you, buffy seeks spike out. she goes to the basement and can’t find him. he’s actively hiding from her.

later in the same episode he gets himself cleaned up and goes to her, for the first and only time. he says it’s because something terrible is coming and he wants to offer his help. he tells her if she doesn’t want him around, tell him and he’ll leave and she can revoke his invite (which notably is still active). she doesn’t. she accepts his help.

they talk while looking for the demon and buffy says she can tell something is different about him but she doesn’t know what. spike makes a point to say he isn’t going to tell her what it is. that’s MAJOR. spike does not want buffy to know about his soul. he doesn’t put it on her, and he doesn’t make it her problem. he ends up telling her only after it’s nearly forced out of him and he’s triggered back into insanity after a lucid period. after he reveals his soul, he leaves.

in the next episode, same time same place, buffy seeks spike out. he’s once again hiding in the basement, so she knows where to find him, but he does not go to her. she enlists his help that episode, twice.

the next episode is help. buffy goes to the basement to see spike. she asks if he knows anything about cassie. he later helps buffy save cassie from the boys trying to sacrifice her.

in the next one, selfless, buffy once again goes to spike. it’s a definite a pattern. buffy seeks out spike. it’s actually a lot like much of their relationship in season six, only much more one sided. she tells him to leave the basement because it’s bad for him.

the next episode, him, sees a big shift. it’s still buffy going to spike, but this time she doesn’t just leave him in the basement. she actively chooses to help him out of it, getting xander to let him move into his apartment. there’s a huge and important change in their dynamic now. they are solidly in each other’s lives, and that was and continues to be buffy’s choice.

i won’t do little synopses for each episode from the rest of the season, but from here spike offers to leave at minimum four additional times, half a dozen or more total all season.

he earnestly wants buffy to kill him in sleeper and never leave me, because he’s devastated and terrified that he’s killing. buffy says no, she’s going to help him and she believes in him. she rescues him, because she wants to, and moves him back into her house.

later on spike seems to be gaining back control of his mind, but when the first threatens him he once again says he’s a danger and needs to leave and buffy says no because shes not ready for him not to be here.

buffy wants spike in her life. she makes that fact extremely clear. maybe at first it wasn’t for the healthiest reasons, but a major theme of season seven is spike and buffy healing both as individuals and growing closer together because of it. their relationship empowers and strengthens buffy, and the final episode is called chosen for a reason. this season is about buffy’s agency. that starts when she decides who’s in her life and who isn’t.

there’s never a single moment where spike makes that decision for her. he doesn’t once tell buffy she has to accept him, or that he should have access to her. he doesn’t come around when she says to leave, because she doesn’t say to leave. he stays away from her until she beckons him back. over and over.

spike doesn’t think he deserves anything from buffy. he believes the opposite, even encouraging her to date and hiding his heartache about it. he doesn’t make his insanity and suffering her problem. she volunteers to help him.

i understand having issues with the writing choice of spike back in buffy’s life at all after what happened in season six, but only if you’re engaging with it honestly. you can dislike that buffy makes the choice to have spike around, but it’s obvious when you disregard her agency and pretend he’s the one calling the shots. you hate a story that didn’t happen, and it’s impossible take seriously.

why does nobody ever talk about angel and spike fighting over the shanshu prophecy?

when spike points out that angel views his soul as a curse, as punishment, as being forced to live with the guilt of everything he's done, whereas spike fought for his soul. nearly died for it. the demon with no soul still wanted to do the right thing, to be a good man, so desperately he would destroy himself for the chance.

and then angel says something VERY interesting to spike. spike says he thinks angel hates him because he's a living reminder of his evil. "cause every time you look at me, you see every dirty little thing i've done. all the lives i've taken. because of you. drusilla sired me, but you made me a monster."

and angel, the man who, without his soul, tortures and kills people sadistically for fun and feasting, the man who insists he is not angelus, says, "i didn’t make you, spike. i just opened up the door and let the real you out."

SUCH an interesting thing to say, angel! let's talk about this. no, please—go on. explain how you are better than spike in any way. i'm fascinated. i'd love to hear how you and angelus are different people but the demon who possessed william the poet is somehow the same as the man.

you can't have it both ways, you horrifically catholic man. you aren't a better person just because you've suffered more.

The bathroom scene from Buffy the Vampire Slayer still stands out objectively as just one of the worst things in a show or movie.

The idea of reminding the audience that Spike is a villain doesn’t work that deep into the narrative, but even then there were a million other ways to display him being evil or morally conflicted, ways that didn’t involve a out of pocket attempted rape scene.

Place aside filming it made both actors uncomfortable and both to this day are still pissed about the entire thing and how bizarre and random it was.

The scene didn’t have weight. It was sudden and gross and hellish and then sort of slowly became just this thing. Nothing about it was handled well narratively speaking.

Plus it being what drove Spike to end up accidentally receiving a soul. Other than temporarily driving him insane with guilt a soul made no major difference in Spike as a person. Spike had never been a good vampire, he wasn’t good at being a man in the era he was born into and he wasn’t good at being a vampire.

As a human he was gentle and shy and soft and lovely. Traits that had him mocked and teased and pushed out, seen as “strange” and “unmanly”. Then we see him as a vampire and he’s unique as Dru is unique, he is beyond capable of love. This man, this monster fucking loves intensely and it is his biggest trait as soon as he is introduced.

He is nothing like Angel. Angel as a human was a rude sexist drunk and a bit of a prick. Angel as a vampire was as demonic and horrendous as any monster could be, even with Dru he drove her insane then turned her, he can pretend he loves her just to toy with her, but he would kill her if she proved useless to him. Being cursed with a soul is solely the only thing making him a “good” person. Every time he loses his soul he is dangerous.

But Spike isn’t like that. Even before being chipped, even before the soul he was complicated and complex, he was protective and intense and emotional.

The show if Whedon hadn’t been insistently bizarre about Spike could have explored so much that was already laid out. What does a soul even mean? What does it mean if Spike sand soul is capable of compassion and guilt and love and kindness? That he can break down sobbing when Buffy died, that to honor a promise to a dead woman he watched after her teenage sister? What does it mean that Angel without a soul uses every kindness and softness Buffy and Giles and others showed him against them? That her vulnerability becomes something he can torment her with.

What does a soul mean or matter in this case? Is Angel a good person in any real capacity? His soul given to him as a curse is genuinely the only thing making him be good. And there is something about that that makes Angel terrifying as a character for me. Don’t get me wrong I love Angel good or evil, I love him more in Angel the series, but in general it is difficult to really take him necessarily as good.

While Spike on the other hand is more in line with a human, he isn’t good or bad. He is traumatized and hurt and angry and in love and so human despite having a demon soul.

And these complexities could have been explored. Not a pull it out of left field sexual assault scene.

Literally though the Dawn/Faith dynamic in s7 is so tantalizing bc just having Dawn be this hissing feral kitten full of resentment with Faith's only reaction basically being "haha this rules, say something else about how you wish I was dead" is SO funny

I mean ideally this DOES develop out into something more complex, in a hypothetical scenario where Faith has more screentime and shows up earlier.

@jewishsuperfam and I have talked before about how there's actually some stuff Faith and Dawn have in common. They both lost their moms quite young (though the circumstances were way different), they both had rebellious phases filled with truancy and stealing and general acting out. They both kind of occupy this space where they're always positioned in Buffy's shadow to some degree.

I'd wager, based on how everyone else reacted to Faith in early S3, that Dawn would have been really enamored with her. A tough bad girl slayer who doesn't just write Dawn off, like Buffy does, who seems dangerous and powerful and is CRUCIALLY not Dawn's older sister, so she can still be cool. It's easy to imagine how Faith going bad after impressing a young kid like that would make Dawn really hate her guts.

I would really, really love to see how that relationship could have played out, given more development.

But at the very least Dawn absolutely loathing Faith and Faith being like "lmao sick" is very, very funny

I can't sleep because I keep thinking of the vampires in Buffy. It's established that vampires are Like That because they don't have souls therefore they're just killing machines with no emotions. But then you see Darla, that is clearly in love with Angel. Spike and Drusilla are in love, and Drusilla feels sad about her family. There's also that one vampire that's killed by the judge because he has some humanity in him. So Angel being a complete monster with no humanity isn't the norm. But why does he change so much without his soul? And how do the others still feel without a soul ? Do the rest actually have souls ? Is the level of humanity a vampire retain arbitrary or changeable?

Angelus is no deviation from Darla, Drusilla, and Spike (or The Master, who shows affection plenty) in this. Angelus is moved to tears, weeps 'like a baby' in fact, at the ballet when he goes to see Giselle, he's so enraptured and affected by it. He's absolutely in love with Darla as she is with him, tho neither would themselves use the word 'love' it's clear from everything we see of them together that that's what it is, and if you're gonna grant that it applies to her feelings for him then there's no real reason not to for the reverse. We see him show affection for every member of the fanged four. There are two possible explanations for this disparity. One: The Judge is full of shit. But, that's me being a little petty. So, Two: how Angelus is in Season 2 BtVS is a marked contrast to how he is in the flashbacks. Moreover, The Judge does his lil pronouncement right in the immediate aftermath of the soul loss. It's possible that the soul curse itself affected things, or the trauma of being subject to a hundred years of the effects of a curse specifically designed to torment. It's also possible that - the previous season, Angel has to kill Darla. It's her or Buffy, he's not left with much choice, and it's to protect innocents. These things might salve the wound at the time, but they're gonna be salt in it once he loses the soul. I wonder if the pain of that might cause some numb hollowness initially that could lead to the 'no humanity' pronouncement. Cuz, like, this is a man who tried to go back to Darla post-soul, wanted desperately to be able to stay with her (and Spike+Dru) if at all possible, but wasn't able to and was kicked out by her. A century later, he can finally go home, but haha no cuz he murdered the woman that was home to him, who was the centre of his world. And for what. And now he's just lost his soul finding peace in the arms of the person who is the reason why. Yeah, I wonder if that causes a lil numb emptiness for a bit at the point where the Judge does his Judgeliness. Maybe if it's even a factor in his desire to bring about the apocalypse, cuz he sure never showed any desire for that in centuries past.

These are my thoughts on the matter as well. Angelus isn't devoid of humanity generally speaking, he was just shell shocked in BTVS season 2. Just as Angel had to deal with all the trauma from his past actions, Angelus had to deal with the humiliations of the past century. Losing his reputation, living off rats, working for the Slayer, etc. To top it all off, he doesn't even get Darla back.

And what happens when things are way too much to deal with for Angel? He becomes quite nihilistic and cold. It wouldn't be a surprise if the same held true for Angelus. He tries to act like everthing's fine, everything's normal now - but the sudden desire to add "Destroyer of the World" to his resume contradicts that a bit.

In season 2 Angelus was grieving Darla. Darla loved the world and with her gone Angelus wants to destroy it.

"Life is full of surprises" – Darla to Angelus.

"Life is boring, you are full of surprises" – Angelus to Darla.

@gh-0-stcup i'm peer reviewing your tags

I think that Sunnydale can largely thank Anya for not having a lot more incidents of chaotic inexperienced magic users (e.g. the Trio) causing mayhem. Why? Well, when Giles sold Glory 2 items that could be used for a dangerous spell, she called him out, basically asking why he would sell anyone such a dangerous combo. This indicates that Anya is at least generally aware of what shouldn't be sold to customers or what to watch out for, and implies she wouldn't have sold Glory the items. Furthermore, when the gang is under the Tabula Rasa spell, we saw that an amnesiac version of Anya was able to perform potentially dangerous spells using only a single spell book, including conjuring rabbits and a sentient skeleton (that Giles sword fights with). This indicates it would be entirely possible for people with no idea what they're doing to perform irresponsible magic fairly easily.

Basically, Anya prevented a large amount of even more crazy whacky things from happening in Sunnydale

We needed scenes of Anya calling Buffy and saying "Someone just bought these dangerous items and he was clearly a vampire intent on ending the world, you should go stake them"

Buffy "Why did you make the sale if you knew this could end the world??"

Anya "I jacked up the price and got him to pay triple. I mean, he thought he was about to end the world so he wasn't going to care if I took all his money. Now go kill him before he does the spell, this is your sacred calling"

do you ever think about dawn summers in s7

dawn summers, who’d suffered some of the worst trauma possible the year before and watched a sister become distant and one surrogate sister endanger her and in general betray her time and again for power while another surrogate sister was murdered and her dead body left for dawn to find

dawn summers, who’d trusted a monster and found that he’d hurt- not her, but her sister, the one most unforgivable deed. dawn summers, who’d been tossed that information as a selfish tool for revenge by the one last person she’d seen as her caretaker

dawn summers, who went on to live in a house the next year with all those people, who immediately got to work and coexisted beside them and basically went out of her way to be as efficient and helpful as always even when she’d spent another year being pushed into the background by everyone else- who patched up spike when buffy asked her to and took her role as observer and researcher and host seriously and never questioned it or resented not getting to be more

like we talk about how selfless dawn is and we talk about how good she is and how much like her sister she is but her capacity for forgiveness is also on par with buffy’s

the monks made her out of me. she’s me. yes. yes she is.