@blackbird5154 / blackbird5154.tumblr.com
The experience that is learning about Ghost with the understanding that Primo was scary and an asshole, getting soothed into a state of security because all the fics portray him as p chill post-retirement, then getting slapped in the face with the actual extent of how fucking crazy he actually is
My first comic. It took me so long to finish!
I hope there will be more to come! Many thanks to those who supported, believed in me, and helped me with their advice.
Where did the papas grow up and by who were they brought up?
The Dance Macabre music video suggests that Nihil was introduced to the church when meeting Sister Imperator. So... Primo, Secondo and Terzo must've joined the church quite young because Nihil wanted them there? What were their mothers' roles in their upbringing?
Copia most likely was brought up by the clergy since he didn't know who his parents were (or just who his mother was? Correct me here, I can't remember haha).
And where has Copia's twin been all along?
There probably aren't any definitive answers but it is interesting to speculate.
thanks for the ask!
in the main timeline, i think the brothers were all raised separately, and Nihil basically had nothing to do with raising them.
Primo - i choose not to think about Primo's backstory because he says he doesn't really remember his life before he joined the cult. i like the mystery.
Secondo - i think he was raised by his mom and he lived in Southern California his whole life. my headcanon is that Secondo has pretty much always been religious, but his mom's family was catholic and he quit catholicism years before he joined the cult.
Terzo - it's strongly implied in canon that Terzo's mom was a great parent and she had a really good relationship with Terzo. my personal headcanon is that he was born in LA and then moved to NYC with his mom and grew up there. also i think she was an artist and encouraged Terzo's interest in art.
i don't think Primo, Secondo, or Terzo had any connection to the cult when they were younger– they all joined the cult when they were grown adults. i don't think it was Nihil who wanted them to join the cult. honestly, Nihil was barely aware of his first 3 kids existing. i think it was Sister Imperator who eventually tracked down the brothers and orchestrated their recruitment into the cult, like she had done with Nihil. for her schemes.
Cardi - canonically, Cardi didn't find out who either of his parents were until late 2021, when he was 51 years old. i imagine his upbringing was basically the satanic equivalent of those irl catholic "orphans" who aren't actually orphans, they're children of nuns / priests who can't claim them. i think Sister Imperator checked on him semi-frequently, but she wasn't really involved. Cardi is the only one who was raised in the cult, and he grew up in LA.
i don't want to speculate about the twin.
It's not a criticism of your vision, just a parallel reflection. Terzo has been noticed to have an Italian accent, but he speaks Italian incorrectly. Secondo prefers to give interviews in Italian. What if they were born and raised in Italy, where they were conceived by Nihil, but then moved to America? Terzo moved earlier and has little memory of his native language. Secondo moved later, perhaps influenced by the Clergy. Terzo may have also lived in Lincopia during his era. His ass was so brazen that he got the entire Ministry to move there :D
a lot of people seem to be confused about this since the information we have about their ages does conflict with this fact, but the most recent information we have since the Prequelle Era all says that Primo is Nihil's son.
the Chapters collectively refer to Papas I-III as Nihil's "progeny" / "sons". and in the Special Sermon Livestream, Nihil refers to all three of them as "my children".
also, the back of the Papa Emeritus II Super7 Ultimate Figure box says that he's Primo's younger brother. so yeah, they are brothers.
"Papa Emeritus II was the most sinister of his Papal brethren. The younger brother of Papa Emeritus I continued the work of the Dark Ministry across the world."
there are some old interviews where TF states it was always planned that Secondo and Terzo would be brothers, while omitting Primo. Primo probably wasn't their brother originally, but he is now. has been since Prequelle Era started.
Hello! Ghost lore question: How old are the papas? Copia's birth year can be placed because of the date in the Kiss The Go-Goat chapter but what about the others? Any thoughts about the brothers' age differences?
made a post about this a while ago, but i'm happy to share again!
Papa Nihil - in Rite Here Rite Now, he tells Cardi “I am almost 80 years old and I’m dead.” it's not clear if he means that he would almost be 80 years old if he were still alive, or if he means that he was almost 80 years old at the time he died, but it kind of gives us a range to work with. he'd have been born in the 1940s.
in my personal headcanon, i place Nihil at the very oldest end of that range, being born in 1940. this is assuming he was talking about his age at death, and assuming he was 79 years old when he died on March 3rd, 2020.
Cardi - we know from Kiss The Go-Goat and RHRN that Sister got pregnant in the later half of 1969, so Cardi and his twin were born in early 1970.
i think Nihil was 29 years old at the time.
Terzo and Secondo - it was stated in several Meliora Era interviews, The Summoning, and Metal Myths that Terzo is only 3 months younger than Secondo. so they’re basically the same age. an interview from 2013 said Secondo was around 50 years old in 2013, and this seems reasonable. so he and Terzo would’ve been born around 1963, give or take a few years.
in my personal headcanon, Secondo and Terzo are about 6 years older than Cardi. i place Secondo being born in November 1963 and Terzo being born in February 1964, when Nihil was 23 years old.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE TRANSFORMATION FROM PAPA EMERITUS, WHO IS CREDITED ON OPUS, TO PAPA II? NAMELESS GHOUL: Papa I had sat his years and it was time for the succession. The major difference between the two dudes is probably the age: Papa I was in his 80s whereas Papa II is around 50. A little more mojo. Revolver (May 2013)
Primo - unfortunately, all the info we have on Primo's age is outdated the above quote says Primo was in his 80s when he was the frontman of Ghost, but that’s not possible since his dad wasn’t even that old. (and yes, Primo is Nihil’s son.) with the new information about Nihil’s age, it seems Primo's age has kinda been silently retconned and we’re just supposed to assume Primo was actually younger than previously thought.
personally, i place Primo as 6 years older than Secondo and Terzo, born in 1958 when Nihil was 17-18 years old. so to me, Secondo and Terzo are right in the middle of Primo and Cardi+twin.
thanks for the kind words and thanks for the ask! these were great questions and really enjoyed writing this response. your questions really made me think! (and when i start thinking i always think too hard and take forever to answer– sorry this took so long!)
i'm putting these questions together because i feel they are closely related. this is a topic i've recently been thinking about a lot, actually.
A Ghoul Writer was first mentioned in that 2010 interview with Primo. the Ghoul Writer is Special Ghoul, the Nameless Ghoul character who gave interviews in Eras 2 and 3. in interviews with him, either he himself or the interviewers would usually mention he's the Writer. i'm not linking anything specific here because you can find this happening in pretty much any Era 2 / 3 interview. (though there's one Era 2 Nameless Ghoul interview that refers to the Writer as a separate character.)
the only Papa who wrote his own music was Nihil. the music video for The Future Is A Foreign Land shows that he and his Nameless Ghouls wrote the song together, and he's credited as a writer on Seven Inches Of Satanic Panic. (pic: back of the SIOSP record)
after Nihil, none of the Papas were involved in the songwriting process. everything after Nihil was written by A Ghoul Writer.
PITCHFORK: On the new album, the songs/lyrics are credited to "A Ghoul Writer." Are you this "Ghoul Writer"? If so, what inspired the words? PAPA EMERITUS: I am not the Ghoul Writer. Pitchfork (April 2013)
Does Papa contribute to the composing process? NAMELESS GHOUL: No, Papa doesn’t contribute to the song-writing. Metal Paths (August 2015)
so the later Papas were interpreters of the music, not writers.
as for the question of whether the Papas embody the sins of society or criticize the sins of society by parodying them, i think it's a bit of both– and i think it depends on which perspective we're looking from.
obviously from a real-world perspective, Ghost as a whole is meant to criticize and parody the issues the music is about, and the personality and characterization of each Papa is closely tied to the themes of his album.
from an in-universe lore perspective, as interpreters of the music, each Papa has his own relationship with the themes of his album. i think the Ghoul Writer writes each album for / about the Papa who's going to perform it. however, this is not necessarily a positive gesture.
here are my notes / thoughts on how each Papa relates to the themes of his album:
(trigger warning for mentions of misogynistic violence / rape / forced pregnancy)
Thanks for the great analysis and for sharing the information!
I've always found it frustrating that Papas don't write songs, as the temptation to link them to the themes of their albums is so great. I look forward to your reflection on Meliora and the relationship between Terzo and Secondo. Tag me please!
For Primo, the Devil is a religious force, a deity who brings the end of the world and fills it with evil; an object of worship.
For Secondo, the Devil is a symbol of connivance, who patronises a carnal pleasures, debauchery and gluttony. The one who mocks the limitations of God.
For Terzo, the Devil is a symbol of social freedoms, free thinking, liberation, rejection of outdated stereotypes. A symbol of rebellion against "those who sit in high towers".
What about Copia?
I'd like to talk about why Rite Here Rite Now has script problems (as well as Ghost lore in general).
Even taking into account that this is a concert movie, a movie in which the presentation of the characters is of secondary importance, there are still certain requirements to that presentation. Over the years, we have been told a story. There is an expectation that there is some consistency in that story: causes must produce effects. I'm talking about the point that in a “good story” the actions of the characters have consequences. If a cold-blooded murder occurs, the characters responsible must either go through an arc of remorse or receive some sort of retribution for their actions. You can't kill three iconic characters and just forget about that and move on. The consequences can be different, depending on how the author wants to develop this theme. But they have to be.
I'm not really clear on how Tobias is developing Copia. The first time he appeared, he threatened Terzo behind his back and promised to stomp him into the dirt. You can still find that video on the official Instagram. Obviously, he was involved in the murder that Sister organized and had a vested interest, or maybe he was even an executioner himself. Either way, he ascended to the position over the corpses of his predecessors, and that's clearly what he was aiming for. Even the introduction to RHRN shows him as a maximally selfish character who thinks only of his own success and survival: he believes that he is a better entertainer than his brothers and that he doesn't deserve the same fate. However, the movie tries to instill in us that Copia is a good man who is worthy of sympathy and hope that his fate will be better than his predecessors. I wonder why exactly he has earned such privileges.
Sister Imperator is portrayed from the beginning to the very end as an overbearing, dominant, cruel woman. She obviously hated the brothers and didn't just organize their murder, but did it with relish (a cruel joke just before the injection). She has taken over all the remaining characters, becoming the de facto leader of the Clergy, and has succeeded in building her empire. She controls Copia's every step and also tells Nihil what to do. Yes, we're shown the motherly side of Sister in the movie: she seems to really love her son and wants to leave him an empire to inherit. But that doesn't atone for her cruel behavior, sadism and the crimes she has committed in the past.
Nihil is shown as an irresponsible and weak-willed man, an unreliable lover, a careless father who allows his sons to die. He tends to wallow in fantasies, replacing reality with them and allowing horrific events to happen literally in front of his nose. He was a bad father to his official sons and a bad father to Copia. He is probably the only one in the movie who went through personal growth: he was finally able to talk to his youngest son, finally became a good father to him. But his older sons are still dead and it doesn't seem to be a problem for him.
Apparently, Tobias decided to move from more gory plots to more family-oriented ones. All three characters are now presented as a caring, somewhat weird, but loving family. Their past has been left out of the picture. They haven't drawn conclusions from their mistakes, they haven't atoned for their wrongs, they haven't gotten what they deserve. The screenwriter seems to have forgotten that the members of this family recently killed each other with minimal regret. It doesn't matter now, because the previous characters are just “taxodermically propped up” stuff. The woman who manipulated other people and destroyed everyone who stood in the way of her ambitious plans, dies a peaceful death in the family circle, having achieved all her goals and leaving an inheritance to her son. A happy ending for the sadistic bitch. She's now a positive character, and her peaceful death closes the possibility for a fairer ending to this arc.
Copia who all along demonstrated passivity, infantilism and inability to make any decision, also got his happy ending. You may feel differently about Copia, but I still remember him wearing Terzo's white gloves in concert like some kind of trophy. I remember him threatening Terzo in a tape deck commercial. Why have we all collectively decided to forget that? This is a man who got everything for free, thanks to his mother's patronage. We're even shown how he spends his free time: playing video games, loafing around and avoiding adult responsibilities like paying bills. He just goes with the flow, accepting the blood-stained regalia that is handed to him. And now once again we see another promotion just falling into his lap. What did he do to deserve it? Yes, I agree, he did a good job on stage during his eras. So did the First, the Second and the Third! However, now they are “taxodermically propped up” and he is Frater Imperator.
Apparently Tobias is now targeting a younger audience and use a more pedagogical style. If this is true, perhaps he should have shown how the characters take responsibility for their past. The statement “live here and now, stop thinking about the past” sounds immoral coming from the mouths of characters who have committed multiple murders and have not repented of them. Injustice and inconsistency are two words that come to mind when I think about how this story ended. Sometimes I feel like these characters are just plastic toys for Tobias to play with, and in the process he forgets where the game started.
The problem is that some do remember. Some remember everything.
los tres hermanos ❤️💚💜
You know, every time i rewatch transitions from Papa to Papa i can't stop feeling sorry for Terzo. While Primo and Secondo had proper footage and everything was peaceful
while Copia's transition was truly cool and epic
Terzo got none of it. The man became Papa at the small stage in a small night club only to be dragged off the stage a few years later so that a rat man could get the spotlight 🥲
The Clergy and Tobias was so cruel to him. To the only Papa who did win Grammy and was quite successful :/
Papa III deserved better, deserved more love and recognition!
P.S. 2025 will mark 10 years since Meliora release, so i do hope and expect Tobias to at least honor the man properly.
Hidden colours of Papas:
Primo: 🟥 > ⬜
Secondo: 🟩 > 🟨
Terzo: 🟪 > 🟩
Copia: 🟦 > 🟥
eye shape practice or something
I found this old Ghost interview and it looks like an
Definitely deserves attention.
It’s sad to see the fandom so sleepy, so what a better moment to be back with some ramblings…
So, we know each Papa got their own chasuble colour, but is it casually assigned?
In the Catholic church, vestments colours have specific meanings, usually they change based on the celebration or festivity period, so I thought it would be cool to find out if the meanings match in Ghost’s world too.
The colours used by our Papas are:
I haven’t gotten into all the details because there would be too much to say and analyze. I don’t know if TF has ever planned all this, maybe not - even if in a last year interview he said he was planning the color scheme of the new era, so it shouldn’t be completely casual-, especially with the first Papas, but even if he didn’t his ass is lucky enough to catch some cool coincidences.
I've also heard that purple is considered a royal color. You can read about it here.
Also known as Tyrian purple, imperial purple or imperial dye, the shade is made by mixing red and blue hues. Royal Purple was officially launched as a Crayola crayon colour in 1990.
Purple’s association as the colour of royalty and wealth dates way back to ancient realms. Cyrus the Great – founder and king of the first Persian Empire – wore a purple tunic as his royal uniform. In Roman times, it was reserved exclusively for the Emperor - some even punished their citizens if they wore any shade of the colour! Similarly, during the Elizabethan era, Queen Elizabeth I set laws that permitted only her close relatives to wear purple. The Queen’s father – George VI - wore purple in his official portrait and the colour also featured prominently in her own coronation 70 years ago.
The power of authority is an important theme in Meliora. Papa steps into the role of manipulator (Cirice, He Is) and tyrant (Mummy Dust, Majesty) to criticize toxic authority. Not surprisingly, his costume is in black, purple and gold.
Rating: Explicit, nsfw, sex, mental health issues, abuse, religious trauma, lemon, mental instability, mind manipulation, explicit language, biblical imaginary, violent couple fight, blood and injuries, violence, crossover fic.
Pairing: Papa Emeritus III / OC, Cardinal Copia / OC, Papa Emeritus III / Omega (mention), Alpha / OC (mention).
Crossover: Ghost/Metallica.
Summary: A group of rival satanists attacks the Ministry. Iyrin, now a fallen Angel, is struggling with their new demonic condition, and things between them and Papa Emeritus III are not going as they both expected. Terzo’s revenge against the rival satanists during a Metallica concert only makes things worse.
I’m posting because sometimes one just have to go on. I can’t keep changing things and get stuck on the same sentence forever. It is a 3 chapter fic, already written down so 1 chapter per week. And yes, it is a crossover fic starring Metallica in one of the chapters.
this guy am i right
I’ve added a new WIP to my long-Fics projects and this one will be focused on the teen years of the Emeritus brothers and why, at a certain point, it became evident that they needed separate rooms. So I have finally developed my background headcanons for each one of them (+ Nihil and Sister Imperator bonus). I think I could extend their HC for specific topics in the next future.
The Sister Imperator one is, surprisingly, the one that came out more naturally. Feel free to discuss about these 👇🏻
