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#proshipping – @autumn-foxfire on Tumblr
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Look at all the fox I give

@autumn-foxfire / autumn-foxfire.tumblr.com

Female | 26 | Hi! I'm Foxy and this is my multi-fandom blog. I currently post about Genshin Impact, Detective Conan/Magic Kaito, FF7/FF16, Pokemon, Durarara!! and RWBY however I also tend to repost whatever catches my fancy. This is not a spoiler free blog so please proceed with caution.
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reblogged

"ugh proshippers and antishippers are both sooo immature like shipping discourse is sooo stupid like i'm neitherrrr like why would you even want to engage with that"

I've seen antishippers unironically say and agree with eachother on the following opinions: being a proshipper means people should be allowed to bully you. proshippers make them believe in eugenics. proshippers all belong in jail. being a proshipper means people can send you death and rape threats because "you deserve it". being a proshipper should be basis for taking away someone's human rights or at least put them on a watchlist.

I'm not a proshipper because i care too much about fictional ships, I'm a proshipper because antishippers sent my friends threats for liking certain ships. I'm a proshipper because i believe i shouldn't have my human rights taken away or be bullied or in jail just for liking a fucking ship. If you believe ship discourse is stupid and immature, then you probably believe people shouldn't be thrown in jail for it.

I'm a proshipper because I can tell fiction and reality apart, and that's it

Also, antishippers are vile, man. And their bullying has real life consequences even aside from the bullying. There was this post about kids literally being groomed by them, into thinking their parents' small (<5) age gape is ~problematic~, and to distance themselves from their parents and only talk to the "good and moral" people online

So no, it's not just "silly fandom discourse".

I don't think bullying and grooming are silly

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Anonymous asked:

Uh- are you aware of the meaning of proship?

Proship has never meant anything except a combination of three ideas:

  1. Ship and let ship (your ships don't harm me and vice-versa) and YKINMK (your kink is not my kink, and that's okay; my kink stories don't harm you and vice-versa)
  2. Harassment over fiction is not acceptable
  3. Censorship of fiction is not acceptable either

Any other definitions are made by antis, not proshippers, and are an attempt at revisionism to justify harassment based on false claims.

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froggibus

WAIT that’s what that means?? 😭😭

everyone always has a dni for proshippers I thought it was something freaky or fucked up 😭😭

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octopuscato

Yeah. Antis like to claim that the "pro" means "problematic", but nope. "Pro" (for) is simply the opposite of "anti" (against), and all that "proship" really means is "Let everyone ship what they want, everyone mind their own business".

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pilvimarja

About to make myself a cup of tea and read a whole master thesis on the culture of anti-shipping in fandom spaces 🫖🧐👀

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ms-demeanor

amazing.

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zoi-no-miko

https://www.reddit.com/r/Advice/comments/xaexrc/i_got_a_phone_call_from_my_daughters_school_and/

This is terrifying and made me realize these aren't just dumb/unmonitored kids being preyed on? The pedophiles have evolved 🤮

re-reblogging because that reddit post is HORRIFYING. there's a lengthy update edited in above the original text, so ctrl+F "throwaway" if you want to read from the beginning. if you do read the update first, useful context is that the harassed classmate had been baited into an unsuccessful suicide attempt, and reddit OP's daughter had been groomed by a self-proclaimed "safe adult" into both the harassment campaign and a bunch of highly inappropriate personal conversations in a cultlike private Discord server.

the whole thing is complete outsider POV on the backdrop of terminally-online drama; reddit OP previously knew nothing about fandom subcultures, let alone "shipping" or "antishipping." here, IMO, is the money quote:

[The FBI] told us there's been case that don't involve the fandom stuff they've delt with where groomers will try to be the only "safe adult" and will send minors things to "report" while they themselves are already sex offenders. The grooming tactic of trying to convince a child everyone around them is a groomer for a very arbitrary reason and they are safe is becoming incredibly common now a days. And I urge parents: if you have a small age gap with your spouse, to please be wary of your child starts acting strange about it. If you're an artist and they act very off about certain things you create that are child friendly, be concerned. If you're child calls anything that is normal "creepy" or "predatory" despite it being normal, take their phone. My child showed no warning signs but I can't imagine how parents think their kids are just going through a phase and care about something weird or just dismiss it as a "Gen Z thing" but I am not the only one who's been through this.
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palant1r

not proshipper not anti but a secret third thing (person who has a career in the media and, through covering legislative politics, has watched "associating with problematic fiction or entertainment is an indicator of moral degeneracy" rapidly become a mainstream GOP position that they are encoding in legislation to target the queer community under the guise of protecting children, thus coming to the conclusion that positioning the "can people enjoy things that would be immoral IRL in their fiction" debate as a proship v anti fandom debate is akin to pretending that "should we have the death penalty" is a discussion that only matters in Death Note discourse — the extent and manner to which fiction affects reality is an issue that is immediately relevant to today's US politics, and to summarize my opinions on the matter in fandom terms would be to diminish the ways this debate is affecting america Right The Fuck Now. and i have stopped taking "this person is bad for shipping the wrong anime thing and being horny about it" in any sort of good faith ever since I saw it literally used as part of a GOP smear campaign against a transgender state legislator in an attempt to defend the right from backlash after they used their supermajority in the Montana house to prevent her from speaking on the floor. Anyway I think everyone on this site, especially Americans, could benefit from ceasing to think in proship v anti vocabulary and instead developing coherent political positions on the nature of fiction that do not directly align with current fascist political tactics)

and yes, this does pretty much align with the "proshipper" position — to be clear, i'm firmly in the camp that it's literally fine to ship whatever and engage in fiction however you want and people are not morally wrong for making art that engages, even gleefully or pornographically, in dark topics. the reason i still choose to not call myself a proshipper is for a few reasons:

-there are so many different implications under that umbrella, and i resent the dichotomy that reduces so many different positions on so many different aspects of media studies to two different labels. such a framing actively stifles discussion and prevents people from having tough and thorny conversations about media with people they mostly agree with

-i think "proshipper" is only a useful positional label for people whos primary mode of engagement with media is through fandom. but as a journalist and queer person, the main ways in which the "does fiction affect reality and how" issue interfaces with my life have nothing to do with fandom, so it feels backwards to me to define my opinions regarding media in relation to the area that has the least relevance to my life

-i want my actual opinions to be the most visible part of how i engage with fandom, rather than a label that will cause everyone to draw nuance-stripped conclusions that vary depending on which "side" they fall on. i want people to listen to me, not project their expectations onto me and listen to a phantom of me they've created

-why should i? if people are willing to engage with me regarding media discussion, it shouldn't matter whether i choose to identify as a proshipper or not — they should treat my ideas on their own merits. and if people think that i'm a sick freak for "condoning" whatever is problematic these days, they're not going to care what i call myself, they're going to call me a sick freak anyways. and im kinda petty and want them to actually have to read my posts and rub two braincells together to interpret things and think critically about how to label me instead of seeing "proship" and slamming the cancel button

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Shipping a ship that's considered "pro-ship" on twitter is so fun as it's like "Let's look in the tags and see how people are telling me to die today!" with the occasional fanart/fic.

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Anonymous asked:

Can you explain proship and antiship and why people are saying one or the other is problematic? I’m a little confused over this.

Sit down, nonnie, this is going to be a long one!

I need to start this by saying that I would be someone classed as a proshipper. I don't necessarily label myself as such though and when it comes to the drama around this, I think both sides can be terrible and toxic, but because of my views I would be labelled by an anti as a proshipper (or proshitter because yes, that is how childish they can be).

A proshipper believes that fiction does not affect reality on a 1:1 ratio which will often be shortened to be "fiction doesn't affect reality" which doesn't actually represent the views of many people who are given this label. However to place it simply, a proshipper would not care who you ship: age gaps, toxic relationships, incest of any kind etc. because they believe that what you enjoy in fiction doesn't not indicate the type of things you would enjoy in a real life relationship.

An antishipper, as you can guess, is the opposite, they believe that fiction does affect reality and that your taste in media can be an indication of what you enjoy in reality.

This has led to the words problematic, pedophile, abuser, groomer and the like to be thrown around in fandom like they're candy and not serious accusations to accuse someone of and has watered down the words to the point that when someone is claimed to be, say, a pedophile, it makes people think "are they really or did they just like a "bad" ship" which obviously is a very big problem.

Now, there is nothing wrong with being uncomfortable and even downright hating ships that have incest/pedophilia/abusive aspects and in fact many people who will say "ship and let ship" (a common phrase used by proshippers) will hate them too. I can't stand these types of ships personally and will block anyone who has them as they make me extremely uncomfortable, however I won't harass people who have them either which is a common tactic of the antishippers.

You don't know the people behind the ship, plain and simple. Many proshippers with these darker ships have even had to share how they were/are victims of what they're being accused of and how they use such ships to help them come to terms and take control of their own trauma.

Or they could be dangerous people (though I don't know what the percentage of people that would be) which is why I will never understood why antis will ask each other to put themselves in danger to harass these people.

My issue with antishipping is that any ship can come underfire and be labelled a proship by these people. I've seen things be called proships for people who have shared the same body in funky soul shenanigans, I've seen them been called that for people who look too much alike, I've even seen it for age gaps that are completely normal in real life.

There is no common consensus for what is a proship, it's become a word to mean "ship I don't like" for many and is used extremely often to shut down ships and people shipping it.

I'll use a proship of mine as an example and one that is often the target of antis on twitter. I've made it very much aware I love the relationship between Osamu Dazai and Sakunosuke Oda from Bungo Stray Dogs. Now Oda was 23 when he died, Dazai was 18 years old. For many, this 5 year gap was too inappropriate for them because Dazai was a "minor" at the time of their friendship. This got even worse when the author revealed that Dazai and Oda met when Dazai was 16.

It doesn't matter that to many antishippers that people who love the ship enjoy it with both characters of adult age (it's very rare you see anyone shipping them when Dazai was 16 and even at 18). Because he knew Dazai when he was a minor, their relationship cannot change at all, Dazai will always be viewed as a "kid" by Oda (despite that having never been their relationship) and if you ship them you are a pedophile.

Yes, that is the word that is often used. You get called a pedophile for shipping two characters who are legal age.

Now, can the age gap in the ship be uncomfortable to people? Sure! Can the potential power imbalance be uncomfortable too? Yes, it can and I have many ships where I find myself in the same boat. However instead of the antis of the BSD fandom blocking and avoiding this content, they will accuss creators for the ship of being horrible thing and will harass and insult them.

This is why I called it a cult. You saw in the post I just made how a person had to ask if something was okay? They didn't go "I think this is uncomfortable so I won't enjoy it and avoid it" they had to make sure that it was okay with the hivemind to like it another way. At this point antis aren't thinking for themselves, they're doing what they think others expect of them.

What's even worse is that some anti communities have been shown to have been run by actual predators who are preying on the minors that flock to them for "safety" from these "dangerous" ships.

There have been classic textbook abusive behaviour from these communites such as isolating minors from "dangerous" adults and making them feel like they're the only people they can trust. It's often believed that predatory adults will use "proship" content to make minors trust them but it's just no true, a predator will use anything that will endear them to their victim and that includes antishipping.

It's extremely dangerous and terrifying to see.

There also the fact that many antis care more about the lives of fiction people than real people. I will see them celebrate and laugh at "proshippers" who feel suicidal or have committed suicide, even going as far as to tell them to do it. It's horrifying.

I'm sorry I've gone more into the antishipping community than the proshipping community but that's because I'm genuinely terrified of the antishipping community. They make fandom a terrible and toxic place to be in.

For many years, proshipping was the standard to the point it hadn't even been called it. It's only recently the anti community started to rise, bringing with them both insane purity culture and abusive/bullying behavior to anyone who won't conform to their standards.

Please, everyone stay safe in fandom.

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Do you ever see someone ask people "Should I ship this? Or is this morally wrong?" on twitter and just think "Damn you are lost in this cult aren't you."

At that point you're not ever thinking for yourself, you're just trusting what people on the internet, a place known for spreading lies all of the time, says because you're scared of being jumped by them. If you truly believed certain things were "wrong" you'd make that decision yourself, not ask what your cult thinks about it.

It's terrifying, especially because it's always minors who are asking this. We've failed the young of the internet, we've let them be brainwashed into joining cults that stop their own free thinking and make them conform to what others think.

Edit: this wasn't even about a ship, this was a minor asking if they were allowed to see two characters as friends instead of family. Holy fucking shit.

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