a comic with some norse mythology

I don't like being advertised at

I don't even got money. what r they bothering me for

Andvari after getting mugged by Loki in The Otter's Ransom.

Context: Andvari was a Dwarf turned into a fish who had a magic ring that made money (until Loki mugged him for it)

Oh My Gods!: Thor (ᚦᚢᚱ)

Note: Þ and ð are both pronounced like “th”.

Name variants: Þórr, Þunor, Donar,  Þonar, Thur

God of: Thunder, lightning, storms, oak trees, strength, the protection of humankind, hallowing, and fertility.

Son of: Odin Allfather and Jörð (the personification of Earth)

Race/ethnicity: Mixed (Ás-Jötnar), although the Norse considered him an Ás since only the father’s lineage was considered important.

Siblings: Baldr, Víðarr, and Váli are the best attested. Heimdall, Meili, Víðarr, Nepr, Áli, Hildólfr, Hermóðr, Sigi, Skjöldr, Yngvi-Freyr, Ítreksjóð, Sæmingr, Höðr, and Bragi are also listed in some versions of the text.

Married to: Sif

Notable things about him:

- He rides a chariot pulled by two goats, which he kills and eats every night. He then wraps up the bones in the goatskins and the next day the goats come back to life none the worse for wear.

- He is the best drinker among all the gods. The Norse had a thing about having drinking contests of who could drink the most from a drinking horn in one breath and according to the story of The Tale of Útgarða-Loki (found in the Gylfaginning chapter 44) he once drank so much from a drinking horn that was attached to the ocean that it created the tides. In the same instance he wrestled with Old Age herself and nearly bested her but was eventually brought to his knees because none can defeat Old Age, not even a god.

- Is considered to be the embodiment of manliness. Like, “he’s so manly he was born with a beard” (no, really, he was born with a beard)

- Can pass for a really gorgeous babe when he chooses to dress up as a woman (which he canonically did in Þrymskviða).

- In the Hobbit, Bilbo tricking the trolls into talking until the sunrise so that they would turn to stone is directly borrowed from what Thor once did to a Dwarf (Alvis) who demanded Thor’s daughter’s hand in marriage (the story is called Alvíssmál).

- Two of his sons are some of the handful of survivors of Ragnarök, the end of our universe and the beginning of the next. His hammer survives too and is passed on to one of his sons.

Hail to the collector of lost things

Hail to the comforter of outcasts

Hail to the one whose smile lights a torch in darkness

Hail Loki x0x

Loki's always been my favourite Norse god.

TIL To create an accurate depiction of a black hole in the movie Interstellar, Kip Thorne, a theoretical physicist, wrote pages of theoretical equations to help the VFX team. The resulting visual effects provided Thorne with new insights, resulting in the publication of three scientific papers.

via reddit.com

because this and also because Jurassic Park–related advances in paleontology, et cetera, anyone who devalues the arts in favor of the sciences demonstrably has the wrong end of the stick

Science and Arts are not opposites, they are not rivals, they are the neglected siblings of the egotistical and over-indulged Sports and his best friend Money.

We, as scientist and artists, must unite. Science is an art, and art is a science. We hold hands and we make the world a much better place!

When Interstellar came out, every single undergrad at my university who was doing work for a LIGO project, half a dozen assorted physics majors, and half a dozen engineers all went out to watch it with the explicit intent to talk about the physics of it. It was at an IMAX and we were basically the only people there, and we asked the few who were if they’d be okay hearing us talk during the movie. (They said yes, I think they were interested in what we’d say.)

We also happened to love the movie along the way, but we got deep into the physics of it. Like, deep deep. General relativity shit, the math of causality violation, so much deep niche physics. And then one of the engineers casually commented, “Hmm. None of those are the big problem though.”

All us general relativity people: “Oh?”

Engineer: “Yeah. The real problem was that they needed the really big rocket to get off of earth but only those tiny itty bitty landers to clear a gravitational field so intense it causes massive time dilation.”

All us general relativity people: suddenly and intensely coming to terms with how obvious that was and how badly we missed it

Engineer: “Physicists.” (affectionately derogatory)

This reminds me of going to watch Thor: The Dark World with my Norse mythology class in uni and everyone laughing at stuff that's only funny if you know lots of lore and grumbling at stuff that bothered no one else (e.g. the physical depiction of the Dark Elves; just... NO.)

Is (Mythological) Loki Good or Evil?

^ Loki with a fishing net, as depicticted in an 18th-century Icelandic manuscript.

If you follow Marvel’s Cinematic Universe or read their Thor comics, you likely think of Loki as being unquestionably one of the bad guys (and occasionally an antihero). And you would be correct about Marvel-Loki.

But how did the Norse view the God of Mischief? Was Loki on Team Good or Evil?

The short answer is “yes”.

In typical trickster figure fashion, Loki’s allegiances aren’t as clear-cut as the rest of the Norse pantheon is.

...Sort of.

It’s complicated, as they say on Facebook.

You see, with most deities, their allegiances were relatively static; if they were on Team Good Guys at the beginning of things, they stayed on that team until the end. Not so with Loki. Being a Trickster allowed him more leeway on what was acceptable for him to do.

We don’t know much about Loki’s early days, but based on the fact that he fathered three beings known as Loki’s Monstrous Children (who are major antagonists in the final battle at the end of our* universe), it is generally understood that Loki started out as a bad guy.

^ The Children of Loki by Willy Pogany (Featuring Loki's Monstrous Children)

Sometime very shortly after, however, he became BFFs with Odin, and was solidly on Team Good. He helped get Asgard’s defences built for free by tricking a giant into doing the work (Gylfaginning, Chapter XLII). He turned himself (herself?) into a mare and gave birth to Odin’s eight-legged horse, Sleipnir (also in the previously mentioned chapter of Gylfaginning). He helped Thor regain his hammer when it was stolen by Thrym, king of the Frost Giants (The Lay of Thrym). He was on Team Thor during a skills competition in Útgarðr (Gylfaginning yet again, this time Chapter XLIV). In tale after tale, Loki is depicted as Thor and Odin's loyal companion.

For the majority of our universe’s existence, Loki had Odin’s back 100%. Then came the day where Loki became jealous of the attention Odin’s son Baldr was getting, and through trickery, caused the death of his nephew (which is the catalyst for the end of our universe) swinging Loki’s allegiance back to the Dark Side.

In short, Loki’s bad at the edges and good in the middle; mostly good but with some bad mixed in to keep things interesting.

=-=-=

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* I say our universe rather than the universe because, according to Norse belief, a universe’s existence is cyclical rather than linear – when one universe ends, another begins, rising out of the ashes of its predecessor. As such, there was a universe before ours and there will be another when this universe ends. The first beings in our universe were believed to be the survivors of the end of the previous universe, just as some survivors of the final battle will be the first beings of the next universe.

Me: Tolkien’s Middle Earth works are basically Norse Pagan fanfic.

Christians: No they’re not!

Me: He borrowed so much from Norse mythology that my Scandinavian mythology course would go over what he borrowed from what we talked about that day in class at the end of every class.

Christians: He didn’t borrow that much!

Me: He borrowed the name of the world his stories take place in (Middle Earth), name of all but one dwarf comes from a Norse poem listing dwarven lineages, Gandalf’s name comes from the same aforementioned poem, Gimli’s name is the name of one of the possible Norse afterlives, Gandalf is a copied and pasted version of Odin right down to how he looks and how he dresses, the rings of power (and the One Ring especially) were based on the ring Andvaranaut, Smaug is a copied and pasted version of Fafnir the dragon, Aragorn is based on Sigurd the Dragonslayer (as is Bard the Bowman), Aragorn’s sword and the prophecy surrounding it is based off of the sword Gram and its prophecy, the elves are based off the Alfheim elves, the dwarves are based off of the Svartalfheim elves, the ogres are based off of the incident in the Alvissmal, Shadowfax is basically Sleipnir, *continues the list on and on*

Christians: I’m glad you learned a lot in your class, but I fail to see why you think Tolkien’s work is anything other than Christian literature.

Christianity adopted the view that said “All that is good is ours” Remember Tolkien was a Catholic

You’re not wrong. If they only recognized and acknowledged the original sources from whence their ideas and stories came from I wouldn’t even be bothered.

Besides, Tolkien’s work can be both Norse Pagan fanfic and Christian literature. 

Like, I’d say that Tolkien’s work is a Christian!AU fic of Norse mythology. It’s a Norse Pagan fanfic that’s also Christian.

The thing that gets me is how insulted Christians get at the suggestion that Tolkien’s work isn’t 100% Christian, like Norse Paganism is something shameful or a Christian couldn’t possibly be a faithful Christian AND be appreciative of other religions.

I dunno. There’s something definitely off about their reactions.

No risk, no loss, no sacrifice.

False.

Wolverine would be way more honest about the fact that he can’t die. 

Wolverine offering to take a bullet for you would be more like Odin hanging from Yggdrasil for nine days and nights to gain knowledge of the Runes to share with humanity (it’d be painful and arduous, sure, but there’s no claim to risk of death). 

A sacrifice would be more like when Anansi the Spider Man performed the three dangerous tasks to get Nyame’s Story Chest for humanity; although he did not die he genuinely risks his own life for the good of others on three to four occasions (depending on how the story is told). And even then it was more of a potential sacrifice since he doesn’t die.

1. Hell is NOT a concept in Norse religion.

That’s a Christian/Muslim thing.

Norse religion’s Hel was in NO WAY like Christian/Muslim Hell. Going there had nothing to do with morality or punishment. If it’s similar to anything, it’s to Greek Hades:

2. Odin never stole the Runes.

The Runes showed themselves to him of their own volition once he proved himself worthy.

3. Odin never died in the process of obtaining the Runes.

He was hung from a windy tree for nine days and nights with a spear through his chest, yes, but that didn’t kill him.

It was painful and unpleasant, but being hanged and speared through the chest is hardly gonna kill him. 

What kind of wimp do you take him for?

You’re thinking of Jesus, not Odin.

Deny Odin at your peril.

@religion-is-a-mental-illness I just noticed your comment and as someone who studied Scandinavian mythology in uni, I feel the need to point out that Odin isn't insecure like Yahweh; none of the texts we read in class (both Eddas and various other works) ever mention him demanding to be worshipped or threatening nonbelievers with torture.

In fact, after impailing himself with a spear and hanging from a tree for 9 days and nights to be worthy of the Runes revealing themselves, he notably travels around the world teaching about the Runes to anyone who's interested, no strings attached.

The god of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, on the other hand, is an insecure weenie.

People like to go on and on about how Tolkien’s work is super Christian, but if you know your Norse lore you know the thing is basically Norse Pagan fanfiction with Christianity imposed in here and there. 

(Christians get super upset when I point this out to them for some reason).

Why are Christians like this! I hate ya so much Sometimes.

Tolkien was a scholar of English literature and linguistics. His fantasy is an attempt to build a mythological world for England. Something that they lost due to the Norse and Anglo-Saxon invasions which destroyed the Celtic cultures. 

It is only natural that in building his mythology he would pull on extent mythologies which would make sense when incorporated into an English world. So of course he pulls from Norse mythology.

However as a deeply Christian and spiritual man he had his own beliefs and religious identity sprinkled into the mix.

Tolkien pulling from Norse mythology does not make him any less Christian and him being Christian does not eliminate the reality that he used Norse mythology as a basis for his world! 

Why does it seem like I’m the only Christian who gets this!!!

I don’t say his work is Norse Pagan fanfiction lightly.

The sheer amount of material he borrowed just makes it so that there isn’t another good way to describe it.

I think Christians that get upset at the idea of the work being Pagan fanfic react that way because they can’t fathom someone being able to appreciate and enjoy another religion’s mythology without believing in it.

Like, the dude basically wrote exactly the kind of thing I’d expect a Christian writing Norse Pagan fanfic to write -- mostly Pagan stuff but infused with bits and pieces of their own religion’s worldview. 

If I were feeling uncharitable, I might even say it’s almost as if he’s “correcting” the bits from Norse Paganism he doesn’t agree with (which would be par for the course for how Christians treat/interact with other religions).

People like to go on and on about how Tolkien’s work is super Christian, but if you know your Norse lore you know the thing is basically Norse Pagan fanfiction with Christianity imposed in here and there. 

(Christians get super upset when I point this out to them for some reason).

You’re looking at this from a fairly superficial standpoint, my friend. The themes and descriptions of certain things are what infuses Christianity into the work. The work itself definitely has pagan elements; it’s supposed to. It’s a new pagan mythology, drawing on Norse stories. They’re not incompatible, especially when you acknowledge that Tolkien created a pagan myth that points to what he considered to be Christian truth. It’s an act of sacred storytelling; what Tolkien referred to as “sub-creation”, creating stories that reflect (to varying degrees) what he considered the Great Story.

First things first, I never said that Tolkien infusing random bits of Christianity into his Norse Pagan fanfic was incompatible.

What I’m saying is that his work is 3/4 Norse Pagan with 1/4 of Christianity dumped in.

He basically wrote a Norse Pagan AU fanfiction whether he wanted to admit it or not.

It would be a prime example of Oswald de Andrade’s Cannibalist Manifesto art movement in action were the Tolkien estate not huge hypocrites privatizing a work largely made from using other people’s work.

--------

@apenitentialprayer​: You’re looking at this superficially.

Me: *has taken a university course on Norse mythology & culture where at the end of every Scandinavian Mythology class in uni we’d go over what Tolkien had used from what we learned that week in class because of how much he used from Norse mythology*

Me: ...My dude. I don’t think you understand just how much in Tolkien’s work comes directly from Norse mythology & culture.

It wasn’t just a few things.

Here are just a few things I can think of off the top of my head that Tolkien used directly from Norse mythology & culture:

1. The name Middle Earth

The Norse believed in nine worlds, one of which was called Miðgard, which roughly translates as “Middle Land”, “Middle World”, or “Middle Place”. 

Miðgard was the name for the world inhabited by humans -- Earth.

2.  All but 1 dwarven name

All but one dwarven name in Tolkien’s world are directly borrowed from the Dvergatal section of the Völuspá, the first section of the Poetic Edda.

3. Gimlí’s name

Gimlí was one of the 3 afterlives you could go to when you died. 

Only those who go to Gimlí and a handful of select gods manage to survive the end of our universe (aka Ragnarök) and the beginning of the next. 

That’s kind of all we know about it.

Important note: The Norse afterlives were in no way, shape, or form like the Christian afterlives.

4. Gandalf’s name

Gandalf’s name comes directly from the Dvergatal section of the Völuspá, the first section of the Poetic Edda. 

In Norse mythology, Gandalf is a dwarf’s name. 

5. Gandalf’s character

Gandalf is very nearly a cut-and-paste remix of Odin Borson the Allfather. 

He is an old man in a grey travelling cloak with a wide-brimmed hat and a walking stick:

^ A visual comparison of Odin vs Gandalf.

He travels the world helping people and imparting knowledge, and is known to give advice to heroes and convince them to go on quests/adventures. He is often seen in battlefields and his horse is the fastest horse in existence (Shadowfax for Gandalf, Sleipnir for Odin). 

He is not immune to the pull of a magic golden ring (The Otter’s Ransom). 

He sacrifices himself and in turn is given knowledge/power (in Odin’s case he was hung from a tree for nine days and nine nights while impaled with a spear before the Runes decided to reveal themselves to him, as told in the Hávamál section of the Poetic Edda). 

6. Bard the Bowman

Bard the Bowman is very clearly a remix of Sigurd the Dragonslayer, a hero in the Völsungasaga. 

Sigurd killed a dragon in order to regain his family’s honour and gained the ability to understand birds upon drinking the slain dragon’s blood. 

Bard killed a dragon in order to regain his family’s honour and had the ability to talk to birds.

The section relating to Sigurd’s dragonslaying in specific takes place in Fáfnismál (The Lay of Fáfnir). 

7. Thorin Oakenshield

Thorin is largely based on Sigurd the Dragonslayer from the Völsungasaga. 

Like Sigurd, Thorin is trying to regain family honour and is able to speak to birds.

Like Sigurd, upon defeating the dragon he is overcome with gold lust, which (like Sigurd) ultimately leads to his downfall.

8. The elves… and the dwarves

Two of the Nine Worlds were inhabited by elves: Álfheim and Svartálfheim. 

Álfheim was the home of the Light Elves, of which we know very little.

Svartálfheim (literally “home of the dark elves”) was the land of the Svartálfar (“black/dark elves”).

Despite what pop culture might lead you to think, the Dark Elves were not evil. They were, in fact, very good friends with the Æsir and made many of their finest weapons, such as Thor’s war hammer, Mjöllnir. 

The “dark” part of their name comes from the fact that they lived underground… beneath/inside mountains, to be precise. 

Just like Tolkien’s dwarves.

And it’s worth pointing out that many scholars argue that in Norse mythology the Svartálfar and dwarves are the same creatures under different names.

Looks-wise, the Dark Elves looked closer to Tolkien’s dwarves than to his elves.

9. Mirkwood and Mirkwood elves

The Svartálfar were sometimes known as the Myrkálfar ("murky elves"). 

Sound familiar?

10. Ogres turning to stone when touched by sunlight

This is something that happens to Alvis, a dwarf who wanted to marry one of Thor’s daughters as told in the Alvíssmál portion of the Poetic Edda.

11. Smaug

Smaug is unquestionably a doppelgänger of Fáfnir, a dragon from The Otter’s Ransom and the early Sigurd the Dragonslayer portion of the Volsungasaga (Fáfnismál).

Fáfnir, like Smaug, takes over a hoard of gold and guards it jealously. 

Like Smaug, his soft spot is on his underbelly.

12. Smaug’s visual look in the Hobbit cartoon from the 70s

Tolkien specifically asked that Smaug’s look be based on Norse art of Fáfnir -- and if you know your Norse art, it’s immediately noticeable:

13. Smaug’s weird lantern eyes in the 1970s cartoon

It is a direct reference to the descriptions of Fáfnir, whose eyes are said to emit beams of light like lanterns.

14. The One Ring & the Rings of Power

Tolkien’s One Ring is directly based on Andvaranaut, a ring featured in several tales. 

It first makes an appearance in The Otter’s Ransom and Fáfnismál (two retellings of the same event), is featured in the Skáldskaparmál section of the Prose Edda, and is crucial to the later part of the Völsungasaga.

It also appears in the Nibelungenlied, a very similar Germanic epic poem featuring the dragonslayer Siegfried and Odin’s Germanic doppelgänger, Wotan. 

In the 1870s the story was made into an opera, Der Ring des Nibelungen, by Richard Wagner. In the opera, the ring is meant to control the Rhinemaidens, much like how the  One Ring controls the bearers of the lesser Rings of Power.

15. Bilbo showering Smaug with praise and calling him wise

It is a tactic used by Sigurd the Dragonslayer, such as in the lines “Tell me then, Fafnir,/for wise thou art famed”.

16. Thorin calling Smaug a "worm” as an insult

Guess who used that insult first? 

Yup. 

Sigurd. 

He calls Fáfnir a “glittering worm” to be precise.

17. Aragorn’s sword

Remember Sigurd the Dragonslayer? 

Well, Odin gave his dad, Sigmund, a badass sword named Gram via this whole Arthurian sword-in-the-stone situation except it was in a tree instead. Then one day during a battle Odin comes skipping into battle and causes Gram to break in two:

A similar sword, Balsung, is featured in the Nibelungenlied, the Germanic doppelgänger to some of the Saga of the Völsungs.

18. The prophecy of the return of the king

In the Völsungasaga,  Hjordis, Sigmund’s wife, finds him dying after the battle and he’s basically like “Imma die soon.” and she’s like “I wish you weren’t so you could avenge my dad”, to which Sigmund replies 

In other words, it’s a more detailed version of “From the ashes, a fire shall be woken,/A light from the shadows shall spring;/Renewed shall be blade that was broken,/The crownless again shall be king.”

19. Dragon Sickness

Remember how I mentioned all the way back in item number five that Odin isn’t immune to the power of a gold ring? 

The ring in question is Andvaranaut, which the One Ring was based on. 

In The Otter’s Ransom three Æsir (Odin, Loki, and Hoenir) have to pay ransom for their lives in the form of gold. Loki tricks this dwarf called Andvari into giving him the gold they need, and in the process acquires Andvari’s magical golden ring which can create more gold. 

Odin is drawn to the ring, and the only reason he gives it up is because they need a final piece of gold to cover one of Otter’s whiskers.

20. The One Ring bringing misery to its owners.

When he’s being basically mugged by the God of Mischief in The Otter’s Ransom, Andvari the dwarf declares that Andvaranaut will bring misfortune to any who own it (“...the dwarf declared that the ring would destroy everyone who owned it”). Loki’s response is basically “I don’t care ‘cause this gold isn’t for me anyways, lolz.”.

Loki then gives Andvari’s hoard to Otter’s family (Hreiðmar, Regin, and Fáfnir).

And sure enough, the moment Loki, Odin, and Hoenir leave all hell breaks loose: Hreiðmar is killed by his sons, and the eldest, Fáfnir, becomes a dragon who kicks out his brother to keep the hoard to himself.

Years later, Sigurd comes along to slay Fáfnir and comes into possession of Andvaranaut, causing a series of misfortunes to befall his family due to ownership of the ring.

21. The “_____ son of  [father]” name intros & Fili and Kili being referred to in reference to their mom not their dad

♪ That’s from the Norse tooooo! ♪

By itself, a patrinomial naming system could just be argued to be a matter of Tolkien being sexist. But when you take into consideration how Kili and Fili are referred to as “sons of Dis”, it becomes clear that Tolkien was following the Norse naming system.

While the overall occurrence of this in Norse lore is rare (like in Tolkien’s work itself), the use of the mother’s name instead of the father’s is most commonly seen in cases where the mom of the hero in question is considered very important for some reason. And as Dis is 

a) a princess

and much more importantly, 

b) the last surviving member of the Durin line

she is considered more important than her husband, so her sons are sons of Dis rather than sons of What’s-His-Name.

It’s important to note that the practice of using the mother’s name is only in the case where the mother is more important (e.g. has done greater deeds) than her husband, because men are considered more important by default.

22. Dwarven runes

Based directly on Norse runes. 

I can’t recall with certainty which exactly at the moment, but at least the runes in the Hobbit movies seem to be modelled more after the Gothenburg/Bohuslän Runes, which are a bit less curvy than the other Norse runes.

The rune Gandalf scratches on Bilbo’s door, for example, is called Fehu in the Elder Futhark, Fé in the Younger Futhark, and Feoh in the Germanic Fuþorc alphabets.

The name of the rune means “wealth”.

23. The most important people being the tallest

That’s a common method of symbolism across various ancient cultures’ art, including Norse culture.

24. The giant list of bromances that are just shy of explicitly being gay af

Yup, that comes from the Norse too! :D

You see, the Norse didn’t view sexuality like modern Christian society views it. For starters, there were no labels for sexuality; no one was gay, straight, bi, ace, or pan. You could, however, be ergi (which roughly translates as “womanly” or “unmanly”, if memory serves), which is a man who in modern terms would be a bottom. 

This means that in a lot of Norse stories where there’s serious and very obvious bromancing going on between heroes, it’s actually quite likely that the two were gay for each other but the storyteller didn’t want to say which of the two was ergi in the relationship because being ergi was seen as negative. 

Plus the salacious details in the stories that have survived aren’t really delved upon, so it’s possible they just assumed everyone knew that bromance = they bang at least on occasion.

In other words, Tolkien saw those stories and did the male equivalent of “they’re just gals being pals” without realizing he was writing super gay/bi/pan characters. Lol.

25. Why people being bad hosts vs good hosts (and bad guests vs good guests) is such a big deal

The Norse took Guest Right/hospitality rules very seriously. 

Basically, it means that if any travelers come seeking shelter, regardless of their wealth or status, you should accommodate them to the best of your ability. 

As a host, it is also your honour-bound duty to keep them safe while under your care and protection. In return, a guest is honour-bound to be respectful and grateful for their host's hospitality. 

When hospitality rules are broken, you can bet your bottom dollar that some major drams be going down real soon.