Me: Tolkien’s Middle Earth works are basically Norse Pagan fanfic.

Christians: No they’re not!

Me: He borrowed so much from Norse mythology that my Scandinavian mythology course would go over what he borrowed from what we talked about that day in class at the end of every class.

Christians: He didn’t borrow that much!

Me: He borrowed the name of the world his stories take place in (Middle Earth), name of all but one dwarf comes from a Norse poem listing dwarven lineages, Gandalf’s name comes from the same aforementioned poem, Gimli’s name is the name of one of the possible Norse afterlives, Gandalf is a copied and pasted version of Odin right down to how he looks and how he dresses, the rings of power (and the One Ring especially) were based on the ring Andvaranaut, Smaug is a copied and pasted version of Fafnir the dragon, Aragorn is based on Sigurd the Dragonslayer (as is Bard the Bowman), Aragorn’s sword and the prophecy surrounding it is based off of the sword Gram and its prophecy, the elves are based off the Alfheim elves, the dwarves are based off of the Svartalfheim elves, the ogres are based off of the incident in the Alvissmal, Shadowfax is basically Sleipnir, *continues the list on and on*

Christians: I’m glad you learned a lot in your class, but I fail to see why you think Tolkien’s work is anything other than Christian literature.

First part of Silmarillion: Eru, the First Being, never created, gave “thought” to the Ainur before anything and entrusted Creation to them. The most favored of them, Melkor, tried to take the Creation for him and went to war against the other Ainur and Eru, being then defeated by Tulkas, the greatest warrior of the Ainur. Eru then banished Melkor and he was given the name Morgoth.

Exchange names as God/Angels/Lusbel/Micheal/Lucifer and you got a perfect homage of The Genesis.

Tolkien loves mythology, no doubt there, but the Christianity in his writings is so marvelously present you sometimes don’t even notice it, unlike other fantasy writers (ahem, Lewis, ahem.). It is ridiculous to say that the professor’s books were more mythological than Christian.

@borgesperovago

I never said there aren’t Christian elements to his work. I can see it all over the place in his worldbuilding (though I agree he is indeed much more subtle than Lewis, lol). But the bulk of it is solidly and undeniably based on Ásatrú mythology.

Why do Christians have such a hard time dealing with that?

In fanfic speak, his work is a Christian!AU fic in the Ásatrú fandom.

And btw, just as a friendly fyi since we’re on the topic, anything borrowed from the Bible is also mythology. Mythology is simply a religion’s stories.

I find it diminishing to refer to Tolkien’s writing as “fanfic”, but I’ll go along; even if you wanna call it an AU, the very essence of it is judeochristian: the motives of Eru and the Ainur are not dominance and power like Northern gods were. Iluvatar is a merciful god who does not anger lightly; Odin was the god of sacrifices, known for striking down any foe giving it no second thought.

You are wrong to think the bulk of Tolkien’s literature lies in Asatru culture, since none of it’s values are present; heck, the dreamed life on LOTR is literally one without fights, growing plants, among family and friends, where the most trascendental thing to achieve was to have the most beautiful garden. Try compatibalize that with the mere concept of Valhalla (Heaven) for the warriors and Hel (Hell) for everyone else.

Ah, perhaps I should make this a bit clearer right away: I don’t call it fanfic as a way to disparage it. Much the opposite: I’m an avid proponent of fanart in all its forms, as I think it’s the very embodiment of an artistic movement started in Brazil I love which in English has become known as “remix culture”. The core of remix culture, first proposed in the essay O manifesto antropófago (The Cannibalist Manifesto) by Oswald de Andrade, is that you take the best parts of other art and infuse it into your work in a way that strengthens the quality of your work in a way that’s unique to you.

Next, I’d just like to thank you for answering calmly and politely. It’s not uncommon for my atheism blog to get replies calling me names and then blocking me. It’s refreshing to just have a friendly debate for once.

Now, as to what you’ve said about Ásatrú mythology and Norse culture… I’m afraid you’re wrong on both accounts. Let’s break this in two parts to make it less confusing (sorry if it’s a bit long, but there were several misconceptions to correct :P). 

Ásatrú Mythology

While some Ásatrú deities were undoubtedly war deities, their motivations were hardly ever related to seeking dominance and power in the way you’re implying, and when they did it was always depicted as a negative thing, such as in the case of Odin being temporarily influenced by Andvaranaut in The Otter’s Ransom (the inspiration for Gold Sickness, the One Ring, and why Gandalf couldn’t be the Ring Bearer).

Your description of Odin is definitely not how he is depicted in Ásatrú mythology at all. Odin is primarily known to be a teacher, a father figure, and an extremely clever and wise man who goes around giving sage advice. (And he’s the second best at drinking competitions after Thor).

He is the god of sacrifices in the sense that he was willing to sacrifice himself for humanity when he hung from a windy tree for nine days and nights with a spear through his chest in order gain access to the Runes to share with humanity. In Rúnatáls-þáttr-Óðins (Odin’s Rune Song) Odin seeks to gain knowledge of how to wield the powerful Runes not to make himself more powerful but rather to empower others. Once he is deemed worthy by the Runes he sets out to travel the world and share his knowledge with anyone who wishes to learn with no strings attached. He is also famous for having sacrificed an eye in exchange for being allowed to drink from Mimir’s Well to gain wisdom. He was a formidable warrior, yes, but he wasn’t ruthless, callous, or cruel.

Gandalf is basically a copy-and-paste version of Odin, temperament included,  with his name changed into that of an Ásatrú dwarf’s. Even his physical description and moniker of “The Grey Wanderer” are borrowed from Odin.

^ A depiction of Odin by Georg von Rosen from 1886

As for Valhalla and Hel, to quote my Scandinavian Mythology prof, “They are nothing whatsoever like the Christian concepts of Heaven and Hell. The only thing Hel and Hell have in common is the name.” She was very emphatic on this.

For a start, there are three possible afterlives in Ásatrú mythology, not two: Valhalla, Hel, and Gimlí. 

Valhalla is where specific warriors chosen by Odin and/or the Valkiries (attestations vary on who does the choosing) go when they die in battle. Not all warriors who die in battle go there and there is no stipulation that the warrior must be Ásatrú to go there. Warriors who are chosen to go there basically get to hang out at Odin’s crib getting crunk and taking part in friendly battles until Ragnarök, whereupon they will join in the final free-for-all battle that leads to the end of our universe as we know it. They all perish during Ragnarök.

Helheim, or Hel for short, is nothing whatsoever like Christian Hell. Rather, it is comparable to Hellenic (Greek) Hades. Like Hades, Hel is both the name of the place and of its ruler. Hel, like Hades, is not evil, and for the most part is a homebody who just hangs out at home with her subjects. Hel the place is neither uncomfortably hot nor a place of punishment. It’s simply where you go if you died of illness, old age, childbirth, non-battle-related injury, if you weren’t chosen for Valhalla or Gimlí, or if you died in infancy/childhood. It’s not a bad place to be. If anything it’s so peaceful to the point of being almost boring. During Ragnarök, its residents are led into battle by Hel and perish during the end of our universe.

Gimlí, the third afterlife, is a bit mysterious because not much has survived about it. We know only the best of the best warriors get chosen to go there, but there isn’t much more that we know about the parameters to be sent there. We also know some gods live or are sent there at some point, because the residents of the third afterlife are the only ones to survive the end of our universe and witness the beginning of the next, and we know at least two of Thor’s sons make it to see the next universe.

Norse Culture

A quick note just to explain my qualifications in talking about the topic: My Scandinavian Mythology course in uni wasn’t just about the mythology, it was about the culture which the mythology comes from as well. We even had a textbook just about Norse culture that we had to read. (Fun fact I learned from that textbook: A woman could divorce a man if he wore shirts with a cut wide enough where you could see his nipples).

Though most famous for their raiding, most Norse were not, in fact, warriors. They were farmers. There are just as many agricultural gods in the Ásatrú pantheon as there are war ones (if not more, in fact, as several war gods also doubled as fertility gods, like Thor).

Norse culture can absolutely be found imbued all over Tolkien’s Middle Earth.

I don’t want to make this reply an even bigger monster than it is already, so here are just a handful of examples:

Ever noticed how the most important characters, such as the leaders/heroes are all supposed to be tall by their species’ standards? E.g. Thorin is the tallest of the dwarves then Fili and Kili, Gandalf is like, seven feet tall or something, the elves (Tolkien’s favourite race) are the tallest race, etc? That’s from Norse mythology. In ancient art, the bigger the art subject the more important they were. It’s why ancient art often features stuff like giant people riding tiny horses and why the gods are usually drawn huge compared to humans.

The weird fixation on hair for both men and women? That’s from Norse culture. Hair was suuuper important to the Norse, which is why when Loki cuts Sif’s hair in her sleep as a joke he’s severely punished for it. Beards were such an important symbol of manhood that Thor (the manliest man to ever man) was said to be so manly he was born with a beard (no, really). 

Naming objects of importance like war weapons? That’s from Norse culture. Mjöllnir (Thor’s hammer), Gungnir (Odin’s spear), Andvaranaut (the ring the One Ring is based on), Gramr (the sword Aragorn’s reforged sword is based on), Höfuð (Heimdall’s sword), and Brísingamen (Freya’s magic necklace) all have names because the Norse named things that were important to them much like how we might name a car.

The dynamic of Frodo’s and Sam’s relationship? That’s from Norse culture.Though they did have rules regarding homosexuality, the Norse didn’t have as many hangups about homosexuality as Christians did/do. The dynamic of Sam and Frodo looks gay af because, well, that was one of the acceptable dynamics between two dudes in a romantic relationship. 

To put it simply, 

Or at least bi/pan. It’s hard to say, as having strict labels is a fairly new thing. I doubt Tolkien realized this, as queer history knowledge wasn’t really accessible back in his day (hell, it’s barely even accessible now) but by copying the relationship dynamics of heroes and their sidekicks from Norse epics he wrote two queer hobbits into his story. 

Whoops.

There being several ways of referring to the same person? That’s based on Norse kennings. Kennings were circumlocutions used in skaldic poetry to refer to characters. For example, if a Norse story or poem mentions “the whale road” it’s talking about the sea, a “sea-steed” is a ship, “sleep of the sword” is death, and the “heaven-candle” is the sun. Odin was the Hanged God and Lord of the Gallows and Loki was Sleipnir’s Dam and the Great Wolf’s Sire.

Here’s a resource with a ton of kennings if anyone’s interested in looking some up. :)

Referring to only a person’s male lineage unless the mother was famous for some reason? Norse culture. The reason Fili and Kili are known as the sons of Dis is because that’s how naming worked in Norse culture; their mom was a princess and a member of a very important family line so her name had precedence over her husband’s.

The dwarves’ writing system? They’re Elder Fuþark runes, the oldest version of Norse runes. ᚠ, the symbol scratched by Gandalf on Bilbo’s door is Fehu, which when on its own symbolized wealth.

You can enjoy something that has flaws, but you need to acknowledge the flaws

Me: Tolkien's Middle Earth works, especially the Hobbit, are very antisemitic.

Tolkien Fans: No they're not! What basis do you even have to make such a claim?

Me: Dwarves are a displaced group of people whose language was based on Hebrew & are described as being greedy, secretive, & with big noses/ears.

Tolkien Fans: That doesn't mean he intentionally based them on Jewish people though!

Tolkien: The dwarves of course are quite obviously, wouldn’t you say that in many ways they remind you of the Jews? Their words are Semitic, obviously, constructed to be Semitic.

---J. R. R. Tolkien, 1938, telling a Nazi publisher to fuck off

I mean yes, absolutely you should acknowledge the flaws. But I think you also need to acknowledge the cultural context, and which direction the work was pulling on the culture in that context.

Which is not the same as shrugging off historic racism, sexism, homophobia etc. as "of its time". You still should critique to see whether the work was advocating more racism or less racism, more sexism or less sexism, etc. The difference is when you ask "More racism than what? More sexism than what?", your baseline should be the level of prejudice of the ambient culture in which the work was created, not the level of prejudice present today.

As for the Dwarves, when he came to write The Lord of the Rings, Tolkien went out of his way to show Gimli experiencing unwarranted prejudice on the basis of his race, then demonstrating that he has no greed in his heart at all, but a deep appreciation for natural beauty.

"...which direction the work was pulling on the culture in that context."

Like I said in my OP, the Dwarves are depicted in the Hobbit as greedy and secretive with big noses/ears. That's the direction the work was pulling.

This is not a fringe opinion in literary academia:

Bonus: An article from The Times of Israel

"Tolkien told a Nazi publisher to fuck off so he can't have written antisemitic characters!"

Yes, he can. And he did.

Whether intentionally or not, he wrote wildly antisemitic aspects into his story. And what's worse, he likely did it unintentionally, which goes to show how insidious bigoted stereotypes can be.

You don't have to be pro-Nazi to say/do/believe antisemitic things.

"...your baseline should be the level of prejudice of the ambient culture in which the work was created, not the level of prejudice present today"

a) "Jews are greedy and secretive and have big noses and ears" was very much a belief held by Nazis. So if we're considering whether Tolkien's work shows less racism or more racism than the beliefs of the time, I'd say the antisemitism in his book was pretty average for the time.

"The Dwarves' psychological attributes also draw on antisemitic stereotypes, especially the common depiction in early twentieth-century writing (and that of previous centuries) of Jews as whiny, cowardly, and greedy." -- Rebecca Brackmann in her essay "Dwarves are Not Heroes": Antisemitism and the Dwarves in J.R.R. Tolkien's Writing

b) You can, and in fact should, look at both how the book stacks up to modern standards as well as its contemporaries if you are to have a well-rounded view of where the book stands and what its issues may be.

c) I have a bachelor's degree in English and a master's degree in Library and Information Science, so I'm very well aware of how to judge and critique older works of literature, thanks.

"As for the Dwarves, when he came to write The Lord of the Rings, Tolkien went out of his way to show Gimli experiencing unwarranted prejudice on the basis of his race, then demonstrating that he has no greed in his heart at all, but a deep appreciation for natural beauty."

Hmm. I'm aware.

Do you know WHY Tolkien went out of his way to depict Gimli the way he did in LotR? Because he heard the Nazi rhetoric and noticed that his work depicted Jewish people in an awfully similar light. And then he went "Oh shit, I fucked up" and consciously made an effort to fix his mistake when writing LotR. Whether he succeeded is up for debate, but credit where it's due, he at least recognized his bias and made an effort to make things right.