(((I Will Outlive)))

😈 You are not bound by the Hays code.

😈 You are allowed to have evil characters who are not punished by the narrative by the end of the story.

😈 You are allowed to have evil characters who win.

😈 You are allowed to have evil characters who make evil look fun and cool.

😈 You are allowed to make your fun, cool evil character the protagonist.

😈 You are allowed to glorify, romanticize and eroticize evil characters and villainous acts.

😈 You are not obligated to teach your audience a moral lesson.

i wish there was as much redemption in cartoons as cartoon fans think there are. i can count on one finger the amount of shows where the main villains actually dont die / get imprisoned at the end. 

i want more. i’d give anything for everything cartoon bros hate to be true. i want welfare universalism where we redeem everyone as well as we can, heal them, help them, understand that punishment isn’t the same as change, and forgiveness isn’t the same as compliance. everyone is a product of society and therefore changing society is what matters. healing over hurting. i don’t care if every other cartoon does the opposite, i just want one where that’s allowed.

i just… they’re such spoiled brats. in almost every single major cartoon, the villain is treated as an irredeemable villain, and half the time there’s snide comments about how you can’t help everyone.

why can’t i have one show where you can actually help everyone? why is it so bad for that to exist once, in a sea of punishment, cynicism and believing in your own moral superiority over others?

i’m so tired. i just want to believe in people.

For a while now I’ve been extremely confused by how common complaints against redemption arcs have become, because even outside of the realm of children’s cartoons, I can count on my two hands the number of western stories I’ve seen where villains are *actually* redeemed. Like, where is this over saturation of redemption arcs you all are talking about?? I’d love to see them!

I think it’s a combination of:

1) confusing villains being humanized and treated like well rounded people for a “redemption arc”, as if having the barest hint of understanding and sympathy for a villain = redemption, and

2) general audiences being so used to and comfortable with irredeemable villains who always recieve their inevitable retribution, that the few pieces of popular which break that mold are just too fucking much for them.

Americans are just obsessed with retributive justice and revenge and death and are very unwilling to accept anything else, even in fiction.

I’d like to add some other possible factors:

3) they treat slice of life media on the same level as sci-fi/fantasy/action media - despite the fact the former type treats characters in a different way than the latter (aka in slice of life media characters are simply characters, while in fantasy etc. you need to have distinguishable positive characters and villains, even if you write about)- so for them when a slice of life movie features a bad or just not nice parent/partner/friend/teacher/employer, who learns how to be a better person, they treat it on the same level as a redemption arc in a fantasy series (I saw someone saying that Ebenezer Scrooge had a redemption arc; I also remember that in the time when the Sequel Trilogy was being released, some anti reylos were claiming that canon Reylo would be very unoriginal, because there already are a plenty of media, in which a “good girl” ends up with a “bad boy”);

4) anti redemptionists spend so little time outside fandom sphere that they confuse the prevalence of concepts about redemption arcs in fandoms with the actual amount of redemption arc in media;

5) they treat redemption through death trope (which mostly is executed not as an actual redemption arc but as the last minute heroic sacrifice) and the reverse heel turn trope on the same level as actual redemption arcs that end with the villain’s survival;

TIL In Medieval Times, red hair was associated with moral degradation and promiscuity. Redheads were regarded as werewolves, vampires and witches. The Spanish Inquisition singled them out for persecution, believing their hair to be a sure sign that they stole the fires of hell

via ift.tt

hmm… i feel like there’s a factor contributing to their persecution that’s being ignored here… what could it be… oh that’s right! x

This makes the joke “gingers have no souls” much worse holy shit

why does everything end up leading back to antisemitism jesus fuck

“We as a fandom have to talk about-” No. No we don’t. You can talk about it if you want to. That’s fine, if that’s how you fandom then go for it. I hope it works out for you because I want you to enjoy your fandom experience. But if I’m in fandom for reasons that’s counter to, then I have no obligation to talk about it. I don’t have to talk about anything except what I want to.

“Okay but you have to talk about your fave’s flaws-” No! No I don’t! I have to be able to acknowledge those flaws when they come up. I have to be able to admit that my character has flaws, and accept when others talk about those flaws. But I don’t have to talk about them if I don’t want to. If I want to only focus on the better aspects of my fave, even if that means just shallowly talking about how hot they are, I can. That’s my choice, that’s how I’ve decided to enjoy them.

Fandom is meant to be fun. Fandom is meant to be a hobby. I don’t have to talk about any aspect of my favorite story or ship or character or writer or anything if I don’t want to. You know what’s not fun? Having to talk about the ways my favorite thing is bad every time I want to talk about it. Having to point out my favorite thing’s flaws instead of the things that makes me enjoy it. Having to disclaim before I get to sing something’s praises because “yeah I know it’s shit BUT”. No. I can know something is bad without needing to talk about it.

Idk dude this sounds like a really great rationalization for wanting to ignore the parts of something that are problematic and not wanting to have to unpack that

Listen. If the way you fandom is to spend all of your time on critical analysis and unpack everything that makes the thing you like problematic, if that’s what you’re about, then go for it. I mean it. If that’s how you get on, then you do you, and I stand by what I said above, I hope it works out for you. I want everyone to be able to enjoy their fandom experience, even if I can’t wrap my head around why the way they fandom is enjoyable.

But I don’t owe anyone anything. If I don’t want to have a big public discussion about how problematic my favorite thing is, then I don’t have to. That’s my choice. I don’t have to perform a requisite level of discourse to be able to enjoy something; I can just enjoy it, and no one else gets a say in that.

It’s not a rationalization, it’s reality. I can fandom sans discourse if that’s the way I choose to fandom. End of sentence.

As someone who’s been on both sides of discourse or no discourse, yeah. Fandom the way you’re comfortable.

Having to defend a ‘problematic’ favorite sucks. Because even though they’ve got problems, they’re my favorite. It makes me feel like shit because if one of my favorites is a villain then I have a bunch of assholes who think they’re in the right to put me down for it.

Let’s take an actual fucking example. My favorite character from BNHA is Dabi. One of the villains. When I talk about how much I like him or explain how things were fucked up for him, I have no less than probably 3 people in either the reblogs, responses, or in my inbox trying to say that I am - excusing murder, excusing terrorism, or forgetting he’s a villain. Literally every single fucking post that has more than maybe 200 notes.

I am doing none of these things, I’m just trying to talk about and enjoy my favorite character. I will gladly acknowledge that he has flaws, but I don’t want to have to mention it in every single fucking post I make. Just so I don’t get harassed.

This also happens with other characters I like. Such as Shigaraki, Overhaul, or Bakugo. I have to try and defend myself because apparently I can’t like a character without somehow excusing their actions. Even when I’ve made full ass posts about their flaws as well, but apparently liking them means I don’t know they’re not perfect and it pisses me off.

On the other side, I shouldn’t ever have to explain why I don’t like a character. Even if I have every reason in the world, I am not required to. For example, you cannot dislike Hawks or Miruko in the BNHA fandom without at least 10 different toxic people threatening you, telling you to kys, or just telling you you’re shit. This is something I have gone through. Politely asking me why I don’t like a character? Fine, I don’t mind, but harassing me because of it? Yeah, don’t do that shit.

So no, we shouldn’t have to always unpack and engage in discourse. We really don’t. It isn’t worth it sometimes and it can ruin the fun of just being in a fandom.