Long Live the Mikaelsons

Some of my favorite episodes are the Christmas episodes because, while they still have chaos in them, they also just give the Mikaelsons time to be a family.

They created a whole show to be based off a miracle baby and then we hardly got to see them raise this baby. I would have loved to see more holiday episodes. We didn't get to see any of Hope's first anythings. She just kind of grew up off screen.

I would have also loved just a couple of cute romantic episodes. The closest we get is Freelin's wedding and I couldn't even enjoy it since Hayley had literally just died.

I loved Elijah and Marcel bonding and would have loved to see more of their relationship, instead of the show tanking that. Or more of Rebekah learning about what she wanted in life. More of Hayley actually being an alpha.

Obviously just more haylijah. I don't even believe we see the first "I love you." I find it hard to believe they waited until Season 4. I would have loved to see more scenes of Hayley actually getting to feel her emotions in Season 2 and 3, rather than just pushing her into things.

Also would have loved more flashbacks. I wanted to see how the Strix were founded. Or Kol working with witches. Rebekah discovering she wanted to be a mother. Just anything to flesh out the characters more.

The show just really could have slowed down slightly and let emotions land. I felt like a lot of big moments fell flat because the characters didn't even get a chance to feel their emotions. They just shoved them down and moved onto the next thing.

Thanks for the ask!

To me, it's the immediacy of it.

Elijah was born mere months after Dahlia took Freya away. The pain was still fresh for Esther. And then instead of the golden haired daughter, she got a dark haired boy who was calm and quiet, much like Dahlia. She hadn't even gotten the chance to mourn her daughter when they moved to an unknown land with unknown people and she had Elijah quickly after. Kol wasn't born for years after that. And he was born after Klaus, which, in Esther's own words, healed their family.

Esther was in a much better mental place when she had Kol. She had Klaus and Ansel and had settled into her place in the new world.

I also think Finn and Kol's hair darkened as they got older, just based on these two photos up top. Elijah appears to be the only one that grew up with that dark hair. Kol's hair as a kid was still brown, but not as dark.

But to your point about personality, I think Elijah reminded Esther more of Dahlia than Kol did. From what we can see, Dahlia was a parental figure to Esther, just as Elijah was to his siblings. Dahlia wasn't wild and reckless like Kol. Rather, she was willing to do anything for family and loyal to a fault. Kol is a lot more free-spirited and thrill seeking, while Dahlia didn't like that in Esther. Kol likely reminded Esther of a younger version of herself, while Elijah was the younger version of Dahlia.

Thanks for the ask!

lmao, you nailed it.

I think there's also a weird dynamic of women who look like his mother/sister. But I think that's just funny more than true.

While I do think he tends to be attracted to a lot of characteristics in himself, I think he also tends to find people who balance him out.

He tends to be attracted to people with parental trauma like him, or at the very least familial trauma. That's the biggest way Klaus knows how to relate to a person, through his own trauma since it is the forefront of his character. I thought it was funny that Aurora wanted to make Cami seem broken so that Klaus would be less into her when in reality, I think it made him love her more. Klaus needed those he was attracted to to be at least a little broken.

All of the characters we see Klaus attracted to are stubborn and strong-willed. He enjoys the chase, but also when people are obsessed with him. He likes intelligent people who can challenge him. But his ideal is someone who is overly compassionate and can tolerate his bs.

A big ideal is someone who cares for his family. While Klaus doesn't show it in the best ways, he does love his family and wants someone who does as well. We saw how quickly he turned on Aurora when she betrayed Rebekah.

He also needs someone who is more calm then he is and with less of a temper. Two hot headed characters tend to burn out fast and quick.

Thanks for the ask!

It's hard to say since the writers kind of changed Hayley a lot to accommodate Jackson.

A lot of their marital problems came from them just not knowing each other. They knew each other for less than six months before Hayley died and lost Hope and Jackson ran off to the woods. They didn't see each other for about six months. Then Jackson comes back and they get married within a month. We see Jackson wanting Hayley to put the pack first and abandon her connections to the Mikaelsons, while Hayley wants Jackson to live in the Quarter and help raise a Mikaelson. They also both went into the unifications with different intents. While Hayley does say she did it for herself, we know that's not entirely true. She never would have done it if not for Hope and the pack.

I think that is the fundamental issue with their marriage. To Hayley, it was a political alliance that could grow into more. To Jackson, he was already in love with a version of Hayley he had in his head. Hayley could never live up to the idea of Andrea and Hayley was already in love with another man so she couldn't fully love Jackson the way he wanted.

I do appreciate that Jackson begins to see his fault in the marriage right before his death. Before that, he would just give Hayley ultimatums and not admit any of the fault in their problems. It was up to Hayley to bend and change to make the marriage work. We see a bit of change in Jackson in the Christmas episode. I think Jackson may have been able to keep this up, but it didn't actually resolve anything. They never actually discussed their issues or resolved any of them.

All of this to say, I don't think they would have lasted much longer. For one, Jackson's death felt inevitable in the show. As I said in an earlier post, the writers viewed the werewolves as disposable. But had he not died, I can't see Hayley putting up with it for much longer. They softened her out a lot to fit with Jackson. The Hayley that stood up to Elijah in their relationship and demanded what she needed would not have tolerated Jackson forcing her to choose between family and pack. I don't think Jackson would ever have really let it go. They probably would have been together for a few more months. Jackson fleeing to the bayou whenever he got upset. But this would have worn on Hayley. Neither of them were actually happy together.

I also don't buy that they had to be together for the unification to work. Only that they had to be co-alphas. Jackson walked out multiple times and left for weeks at a time. So they were not living together as husband and wife. They could have separated and kept their pack. I also think if Jackson stepped down, the pack could maintain their power from following Hayley as an alpha. It is her pack and her powers after all.

Thanks for the ask!

I personally don't prefer any of the TVD/TO cross over ships. Like I always say, this doesn't mean you can't ship them, they just aren't my preference.

I won't deny there was a lot of tension between Elijah and Elena. I have also seen the interview of DG talking about it and they honestly made me dislike him a little bit. I was not shocked when he announced his divorce given how he often spoke about the much younger women he worked with in interviews. He often projected his own thoughts on Elijah, even if it didn't fit the character.

I personally don't think Elijah was into Elena romantically, rather saw her as a doppelganger he could finally save. I don't particularly like the idea of a character being romantically invovled with ancestors. Elijah would have been around Tatia's child, and then romantically invovled with those children's descendants. It's just weird to me. At least with Elena, Stefan and Damon didn't even know Nadia existed until later. I know it's petty, but it's just weird to me. Maybe it's just because I've been writing about Elijah's involvement with Tatia's kid, but I can't shake it. Katherine was enough, Elijah being invovled with three doppelgangers is far too much for me.

I digress. I like to think Elijah isn't into "younger women." I know it's a joke, but Elena was an actual child when he met her, only 17 years old. Only a year or two older than Davina, who Elijah called a child. To me, Elijah saw her as a helpless teenager who's life was in jeopardy by his family. He had a third chance to save a doppelganger and he didn't want to let her down. But because of family, he did. Hence the letter. I won't deny the episode, American Gothic, and the letter could suggest more. But, on it's own, it also doesn't need to. I talk about Elena/Elijah more here.

I also just can't see Elena invovled with any of the Mikaelsons. Her Aunt died because of them. It may not have been Elijah, but any relationship with Elijah brings you into a relationship with Klaus. I get some people are into it, but it's just not my preference. Klaus tortured Elena. He killed her. He killed Jenna. He killed Bonnie. He nearly killed Caroline twice. He killed Tyler. He killed Carol. Etc. I don't see anyone moving on from that.

And then you have the whole, Elena helped kill Kol and Finn. That should have been a bigger deal. Elijah and Klaus wouldn't forgive that. But especially Rebekah. And lord only knows what Freya would do to Elena if she found out.

I also can't see Rebekah and Hayley in TO being friends with Elena. Humanity or not. With her humanity, Rebekah and Hayley would either be calling Elena out for judging them for their actions and call her a hypocrite. Or just be generally annoyed by her "good girl" act. Elena was not so different than Hayley or even Rebekah, willing to kill thousands of vampires through Kol, just to become human again. But she held herself out as if she was better than them. She could justify killing when it suited her just as the Mikaelsons did. No, they aren't exactly the same, but Rebekah and Hayley would call her out on that. Also, Rebekah killed her. Elena never really moved on from it.

Without her humanity, she may fit in. But the Mikaelsons would grow annoyed with her. Especially around Hope. Hayley would not let her anywhere near Hope without her humanity. The Mikaelsons were pretending to become better people, having a no humanity Elena around would almost be laughable because even actively trying to become a better person, they were still infinitely worse than Elena without her humanity.

The only person I would like to see Elena interact with would be Cami. Elena needs an incredible amount of therapy. Cami would have judged any of the Mikaelsons for what they did to the teenagers and would have encouraged Elena to run away from all of the vampires in her life.

This is why I just don't like TVD/TO ships. It requries the TVD character to become a much worse person. Like I said, I'll never tell people they can't ship it, but I just prefer my ships to bring out good aspects in each other.

Thanks for the ask!

I will say one of my issues with Legacies is I prefer a closed world in my supernatural fandoms. Meaning, we have a set number of supernaturals and it can't vary much from that. TVD and TO do a good job with this. Yes, they add hybrids and heretics, but it's just a combination of what we already have, and it sort of makes sense. They even started to lose me when they introduced sirens and the devil, but again, they related it back to witches.

Legacies introducing phoenix and unicorns and everything else under the sun was just too much for me. But I do like the idea of Hope being with someone who could keep up with her, even just with mortality. She already lost so much and having someone she couldn't lose would be a comfort to her. I also could understand her becoming incredibly dependent on that. After all, she's a Mikaelson. They love their toxic, codependent relationships. A lot of this had to do with the fact that they were all immortal and could only count on each other living forever with them. So, again, it makes sense for Hope to develop this.

You lost me a little bit with the fake Landons, but I have heard Legacies is essentially a rip off of Buffy. I've also seen that the no humanity lasted far too long. I know everyone loves a heartless, badass woman, but it just makes me sad. Hope deserved better than a life where she felt the need to turn off her humanity at only, what, 18 years old? I've talked about how "no humanity" just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. They claim it means no emotions, but then are showing they are annoyed or frustrated or angry, all emotions. It's basically just them not caring about consequences and making the worst possible decisions.

I also have no idea who Clark is. But I have seen people like Hope and Lizzie and were excited to see Aurora back.

The limbo thing I have heard about. I feel like the show just kept getting rid of the afterlife but then essentially bringing it back but calling it something else.

I think it's so interesting that you only like the first two seasons. So many people have told me I just have to get to the later seasons and it gets better in Season 4. Again, I think people just like Hope behaving like a knock-off-version of Klaus. Which is just not my cup of tea.

Thanks for explaining all of that. I don't mind spoilers since so many of my mutuals love Legacies so I've seen a lot of it through edits.

First of all, thank you for reading TGW! I love hearing feedback and I'm so glad you've enjoyed it. I really wanted to give the characters more closure and happier (if not just as angsty) storylines. I can't wait to start posting the sequel!

But yes, Season 5 was an absolute mess for so many reasons, but mainly because the writing was just so bad. I know they lost their main producer and JP had to take over. I don't think she cared to follow the show's own lore. She just wanted to end it quickly and dramatically. If you read my story, Don't It Just Break Your Heart, I don't fully resolve all of the issues, but I do discuss how it wouldn't make sense for Klaus and Elijah to die with the Hollow. We saw other characters get killed with the Hollow inside and she just comes back, it doesn't kill her. They completely dropped the Labonair connection in Season 5 which was such a pivotal point in Season 4. Simply killing her on the one plane didn't solve anything as she just ended up back on the ancestral plane and come back.

Also, yes, where did that stake come from? Freya searched for any trace of the white oak in season 3 and only came up with the one bullet. How did she not find the one that Klaus kept hidden? Why would Klaus keep a stake that could kill him and his family hidden? None of that made sense. Like you pointed out, there was still a way to kill him, Marcel's venom. It would be kind of iconic for Klaus to be killed by both of his children -- Hope doing it to kill the Hollow but using Marcel's venom.

Very little about Season 5 made any sense. It was all just for rating and to launch Legacies.

Thanks for the ask!

Being a "ripper" was an interesting way to explain why Stefan couldn't drink blood. It wasn't just a preference that he could compromise on, but a illness that he could never escape.

I wish they would have handled it better in a lot of cases. Like I said, they related it to a mental illness, even showing it was hereditary. You have characters like Damon telling Stefan it was all in his head and he just had to try harder. And in reality, that's how a lot of people treat mental illness. Even to the extent that, instead of trying to help, Stefan is blamed for it.

At no point in the show do we see Stefan willingly become a ripper. He was when he first turned, but he didn't even know what that meant. Lexi helped him get it under control, and while he slipped up at times, it was never because he enjoyed it. He had to turn off his humanity to even deal with his slip ups. In TVD, he only becomes one when forced by Klaus or then by Caroline.

People often want Stefan being a ripper to absolve or condemn him, but it's more complicated. Just as mental illness is more complicated. While a person is still accountable for their actions, it can't be ignored that their actions are coming from a place of illness. As I said, Stefan doesn't willingly ever become a ripper, that we see. He actively does everything to avoid it. It would be different if Stefan knew he was a ripper and then chose to "fall off the wagon." Rather, we see him struggling with this illness. Yes, at times he does push it on others, but it's coming from a place of attempting to manage his own.

Again, it doesn't mean we can't hold him accountable, but we also have to acknowledge his struggles against being a ripper.

I would have liked the show to go into the history of rippers more. I've seen people say that Elijah or Kol were the original rippers, but that's just not true. It would have been interesting to see though if it was more prevalent in one of their sire lines than the others. Or even just see more rippers than just Lily and Stefan.

Thanks for the ask!

I don't often think about Mason, but he is probably the best werewolf we met in TVD.

Mason had to go through the whole werewolf transformation by himself. As far as he knew, he was the only one. He eventually does find a pack who he creates a sense of family with. But he is still loyal to his blood family. He attempts to prevent Tyler from triggering the curse and we see just how painful it is for him to go through it every month. He was killed far too soon. He should have been able to be with Tyler as he transformed for the first time

I love that when he comes back from the otherside, he isn't there for revenge but to help Tyler. He felt guilty for being taken advantage of by Katherine and actually works to redeem himself, even on the otherside. I don't even think he needed to "redeem" himself. He was tricked by Katherine, but still didn't even trust her and hid the moonstone from her. He did everything he could to protect his pack and his family.

Mason is yet another example of how easily the show disregards the werewolves. Damon kills him and faces no repercussions. Just as Damon later kills Tyler and no one cares.

The TVD werewolves deserved better and Mason shouldn't have been killed. Or at the very least, they could have made a bigger deal about it. He actually seemed like a good guy. We know Tyler needed that in his life.

Thanks for the ask!

I've talked about this briefly, but never in depth.

But this brings up a nature v. nurture debate in me. I do think a lot of Hope is just who she is. But we can't deny how her life shapes her.

The first time in canon we ever get a sense of Hope's personality is when we meet her as a seven year old, who is being raised by Hayley alone. Hope is a gentle, sensitive, and caring girl. I do think that is the baseline for Hope.

However, if she had been raised with all of the Mikaelsons, I can't help but feel that she would be corrupted slightly. We met Marcel briefly as a child and he was also a sweet and caring child. However, the Mikaelsons made him like them. Marcel was still caring, but there was an edge to it. He was willing to starve and imprison his best friend for betraying him. He was willing to lock Davina, a child, up for his own gain. He was willing to unleash a horde of vampires on New Orleans to defeat his enemies (the Mikaelsons). He was willing to hurt those he claimed to love for power. Marcel became a Mikaelson through and through. The same thing would have happened to Hope.

Legacies, from what I've seen, loves to talk about Hope being Klaus' daughter, but in reality, canon Hope is Freya and Hayley's daughter. And not even the Freya we first met, but the Freya they turned her into after they killed Cami off. Being raised by them and feeling abandoned by the rest of her family really shaped who she became. For better or worse.

I also have trouble with this question because it depends what version of Klaus stuck around. We saw various different versions of Klaus as a father, but one thing was consistent is that he wasn't a very good father. He wanted to be, but let his fear and quest for power interfere. Even when he was around for Hope's life, we see him often handing Hope off to Freya or Elijah or Jackson and Hayley or just vaguely to the bayou.

But, for arguments sake, let's say he was actively invovled in raising Hope. He would spoil her and teach Hope that the world owed her everything. We would have seen a much more entitled Hope. She would still be caring underneath, but like Marcel would feel that she was owed more than she was given and do questionable things to get there.

I do think Elijah would try to temper this more, he saw what his hands off approach did to Kol, Klaus, and Rebekah. Elijah and Hayley would have had to be the disciplinarians, constantly fighting Klaus and his inability to actually parent. I would hope that we would still see Elijah realizing that the pressure he put on Hope as a baby was too much and he would be able to tell her that earlier than he did in canon.

We also wouldn't see Hope feeling the pressure the way she did because their wouldn't be the sacrifices. Hope's point system she kept was because she felt like she had to make the Mikaelsons' sacrifice worth it. That she had to be worth it. No sacrifice, no pressure. Even if Elijah didn't realize his mistake, there would be nothing telling Hope that it was her job to "save" Klaus.

This is good, but also would just feed into the entitlement with nothing to temper her out. Rebekah and Kol would also spoil her, encouraging her problematic behavior. Freya, even in canon, often viewed Hope as an adult rather than a child, letting her make decisions that she was too young to be making.

But the saving graces would be the in-laws and Hayley. We see Hayley really mature as a mother. Part of this is likely because she was doing it on her own, but I think she would still have this growth with the Mikaelsons, encouraging them to have their own growth. Cami would have forced Klaus to confront his issues that made him a questionable father and showed him how problematic his techniques of parenting were. Davina would have been one of Hope's biggest advocates, knowing how much pressure was on Hope. Same with Marcel. He knew how much the Mikaelsons broke him and he wouldn't let them do that to Hope. Keelin would also have pointed out all of their problematic behavior, never letting them get away with it.

Hope would have been similar to the Rebekah we met in TVD. Kind of a bratty teenager who has a good heart underneath it all. She would grow and mature and hopefully find her own footing outside of the Mikaelsons. She would also be less afraid of the "darkness" inside of her because there wouldn't be the lingering ghost of the Mikaelsons hanging over her. They would just be her family. Instead of learning of them from books and people who hated them, she would be able to form her own opinions. She would learn to embrace all parts of herself as she got older.

Thanks for the ask!

Yes, and that's why the show made those changes.

I think they do a decent job of showing that Stefan is still justified in wanting to be away from Damon when they are first introduced. It's clear Damon only brings misery to Stefan's life. They were alive for over 175 years and spent most of that separated for a reason.

But I think the show also does a decent job of showing how complicated familial bonds are. People often argue that if someone is being abused, they should just leave. But it's a lot more complicated than that. Just because a family member hurts you, doesn't mean you stop loving them. Even if you should.

I haven't read the books, but I'll take your word for it that they are more hostile. And that works for the books. But it wouldn't work for the show that they wanted. I've talked about this with Caroline and Damon. Caroline's (and Stefan's) ability to forgive Damon is why the audience is able to. The show runners wanted Damon to be a "redeemable" character. If Damon did everything he did in Season 1 and Stefan was hostile towards Damon until the end of the show, he would be the antagonist. People may still like him and even root for him, but it wouldn't be as "justifiable. "

As you said, Stefan wouldn't have forgiven him for killing Lexi. Now in the show, they made it clear that Damon was stronger because he drank human blood, so Stefan wouldn't have been able to just stake him. But it wouldn't be the first time Stefan would have challenged someone stronger. I also think the show did a bad job of showing Stefan's reaction to Lexi's death. He was with Lexi for more of his life than Damon. She was his best friend and family. Damon killed her for really no reason and Stefan essentially just moves on. But again, the show didn't want the audience to linger on the anger too much. It was meant to shock and move on.

If the show was more like the book, the show would have turned into Stefan and Damon fighting each other over everything. I think that story would get old fast. The fact that they turned against each other for Katherine despite their strong bond in the show was meant to depict just how good Katherine was at manipulating them. She was able to wedge herself in even with their strong bond. If they hated each other throughout the show, they would obviously be easy to turn on each other. I could see Katherine using Damon's feelings for her, pretending she cared for him, to go after Elena in order to get Stefan back. That way she keeps her hands clean and can blame Damon, hoping Stefan would kill Damon and they could be together.

But again, it would be a quicker show.

It's really hard for a show to have two characters just hate each other the whole time. Even with the worst villains on TVDU, if they are on the show for more than half a season, they often found common ground with the protagonist. At some point Damon and Stefan would have had to resolve their issues, even if just temporarily.

Thanks for the ask!

No, I wouldn't think so. But who knows with the writers and their inconsistencies.

I don't believe we ever saw a werewolf bite a hybrid, but since hybrids seem to be immune to most ways that kill regular vampires, I wouldn't think Marcel's bite would kill them. There's nothing about Marcel's bite that should kill a normal hybrid.

As you said, his bite kills normal vampires because of the werewolf venom. It kills Originals because of the white oak. Davina was going to use it to kill Klaus. But not as a hybrid, rather as an Original. Just like using a white oak stake would still kill him. It can't be healed by Klaus because it is a combination of all of the werewolf packs. None of this would affect a hybrid, that we know of.

The lore would also suggest it would not kill a hybrid. The reason werewolf venom kills vampires is because when vampires were created, nature wanted to ensure werewolves had a defense against vampires. Just as it made vampires susceptible to vervain and sunlight, they could be weakened by werewolf venom. And of course, their sires could be killed by it, just as they could be killed by the sun when Originals couldn't. So it wouldn't make sense for a werewolf bite to be dangerous to its own kind. It would have been interesting to see the story continue (if the writers were better) to see if werewolves or vampires would begin to develop protections to the hybrids since they were new creatures. Just as werewolves developed venom to kill vampires. On the flipside, hybrids are almost like a defense against the new Upgraded Originals.

Although it is interesting that hybrids are weakened by both vervain and wolfsbane. But again, nature always wants a way to weaken these creatures.

Thanks for the ask!

Without the Originals, it would be harder to say, but I do prefer Klaus because of The Originals. I actually like aspects of Klaus' character whereas Damon is my least favorite character.

I've talked about how I distinguish characters in TVD in my head. We all do it differently, but for me the intent and motivation really matters. We are dealing with a show where every single character has killed at least once so we can't operate on the same standards we have in real life. They all kill, but different characters kill for different reasons which is how I distinguish the "good" v "bad."

The fandom loves to talk about how Klaus and Damon have these complex character arcs, but in the Vampire Diaries they were essentially the same character:

Childhood trauma + heartbreak = complex character

Klaus only pulls ahead in TO because we start seeing him actually wanting to be a better person. While Damon, to me, didn't care to be a better person. He just wanted Elena to like him. But when he realized Elena would forgive him for basically anything, he had no desire to be a good person. We see him kill Tyler and Aaron and even kidnap Jeremy when he isn't concerned about Elena's approval. There's never actually lasting improvement because he personally does not care to be a better person. He kills because he enjoys it. He sexually assaults and rapes because he doesn't care about other people. He never grows to care for humanity as a whole.

Klaus didn't just want to be a better person to earn Hope's love, but because he finally understood how precious life really was. He wanted to be a person Hope would be proud of and could emulate, but it wasn't just Hope, it was Hayley, Cami, Marcel, his siblings, etc. He actually begins to feel his humanity again. Now we do see a backslide in season 5 of TO and Klaus loses years of character development. But at least we saw a glimpse of the person Klaus had the ability to be.

We just don't see that with Damon. For Damon, things have to be absolutely perfect, otherwise he will find a way to destroy it all. I mentioned in my post about Bamon, but Damon can only show growth in a vacuum where nothing can tip him to be bad. Klaus on the other hand was constantly operating under intense pressure and, while 99% of the time made selfish decisions, we began to see him hesitating. Like when he doesn't want to sacrifice Davina even if it means he and Hayley will die (although if they had switched roles, sorry but Klaus was also sacrificing Davina to save Elijah and Hayley). But that hesitation shows growth from Season 1 where he was trying to sacrifice Davina every five minutes.

I don't think Klaus had one of the best character developments that has ever existed. In fact, I've often said that his development is very slight. But it is still more than Damon.

Also how Klaus treats Cami is infinitely better than how Damon treated Elena. Klaus was awful to Cami in Season 1 but we saw remorse and he worked to earn Cami's forgiveness. While Damon never once apologized for anything he did to Elena.

I can enjoy Damon's quips but at the end of the day I just didn't enjoy the character. There wasn't anything to redeemable in him. He is my least favorite in TVD. Whereas Klaus is not my least favorite in TO. There's something about that glimpse of humanity we see in him that makes me give him another chance. But then again, I've always said I relate to Elijah, even in his toxic traits.

Thanks for the ask!

I used to really love Marbekah. They were top 3 TVDU ships for me. But the more I think about it, the more I have to rewrite to keep loving them. And I do want to love them just because it is one of the two ships I loved that actually got an endgame. But in typical TVDU fashion, the ships that got endgames were so problematic.

I don't think anyone can say Marbekah isn't problematic. It's one thing to love them, but they are deeply problematic for several reasons. One of them will always be Marcel constantly choosing either Klaus or New Orleans over her.

But the bigger reason is Rebekah grooming him. Because there isn't another way to say it. Rebekah knew Marcel as a child, helped raise him, and then quickly got into a relationship with him. We don't really know how old he was but he was at least in his early twenties when they first got together.

For the most part, as you said, I just headcannon that Rebekah wasn't an active parent in Marcel's life. But the show actively tries to fight against that narrative. The scene where Marcel is a literal child saying he wants to marry Rebekah was meant to be cute, but it's gross considering they then have a romantic relationship. You do mention that it doesn't fit the traditional definition of grooming, but I think it does because of that scene. Marcel makes a comment about being attracted to Rebekah in a way that he wants to marry her as a child and instead of seeing Rebekah rebuke this, she is flattered and essentially gives him a goal, saying she wouldn't marry someone who couldn't beat her in a duel. Not that she couldn't marry a child or someone her brother was raising as a son. This is then paired with a flashback of them dueling when he is an adult and they begin to kiss. The fact that they are still dueling all those years later make it seem as if she had an active role in his life. Rebekah's failure to set boundaries and encouraging the crush is a form of grooming. As you said, she should have set him down and explained family. But also as you point out, Rebekah doesn't really understand healthy family.

Marcel being raised by the Mikaelsons turned him into a Mikaelson. In some good ways and some bad. Marcel definitely has a lot of similar traits to Klaus. I definitely think there is an aspect of Rebekah choosing Marcel because of that, but also simply because the Mikaelsons had to keep it in the family or Klaus would lose his mind. Even though he also lost his mind here. But at least Rebekah wasn't worried about Klaus killing Marcel like he had killed every other lover she had in the past.

Klaus stans will say he "punished" Rebekah because of the grooming, but that's really ignoring his entire character and the entire show. Rebekah took something that belonged to him, because he viewed Marcel as property more than a child. This is another reason people overlook the grooming, because people don't view Marcel as a Mikaelson or as a child of Klaus. I've always been curious of where the last name "Gerard" came from. Why wouldn't he go by Mikaelson if he was raised by them? Klaus gave him a first name but not their last name? Potentially Marcel dropped it to distance himself, but even in the flashbacks, we don't see him truly being regarded as a Mikaelson. The show did this because they understood they were walking a creepy line of predatory/incest.

I think Marbekah tends to get less judgment than the other ships because people think Marcel and Rebekah are morally superior than the other characters. This is not true for everyone, just something I've seen with both of their stans. I love Rebekah, but I get attacked if I ever criticize her for how she treated the teenagers in TVD. Or the fact that Rebekah dated teenage Matt and used money and the ability to travel to persuade him to be with her. Or when I compare Marcel to Klaus, because they do have a lot of similarities. I've noticed with a lot of characters who may have less terrible deeds under their belt get away with murder, literally. If you criticize them, people will respond with "You like x, and they've done worse," instead of holding their character accountable. Or like with Klaus, their abuse is used to excuse all of their misdeeds.

People will argue that Rebekah was turned as a a 16 year old teenager so she was a teenager and it was fine for her to date teenagers, but then Marcel being with her at 25 years old is problematic as he's an adult sleeping with a 16 year old. Or Even Damon who was turned at 24 years old. So that argument is still problematic.

I do think Marcel being a POC does play a role. POC children and teens tend to face "adultification" in media, so people are less concerned about them being groomed or taken advantage of by adults. I do also agree that Rebekah is often infantilized. I blame a lot of her behavior in TVD for that. She behaved like a child. But in TO, they matured her so much, even in the flashbacks. If TVD Rebekah was with Marcel, I think that would have felt creepy on his part.

Like I said, I do still enjoy Marbekah, but I can't think about it too much or it grosses me out. I do prefer my ships to be age appropriate and contain the least amount of toxicity we can expect from a series like TVDU.

Thanks for the ask!

To me, Marcel and Hope have always had more of an uncle/niece relationship than sibling. This is largely because of their age differences, but also because of the lack of father figure in Hope's life for so long. While Hope does feel protective of Marcel, it's not in the same parental way Marcel does for her. He watched her grow up more so than any man in her life.

It's why I found it harder to believe Marcel, out of all of the Mikaelsons, didn't show up to help Hope in Legacies. He knew exactly what it was to be Klaus' child. He also knew exactly what it was like to be abandoned by the Mikaelsons.

Even in TO Season 5, they didn't do their relationship justice. Marcel would have been a close figure in Hope's life. Mystic Falls is only about a six hour drive from New York City and Marcel didn't have a reason to stay away. He was one of the few Mikaelsons that could actively be in Hope's life. We get to see a handful of scenes with them and it does appear they've stayed in touch. I watched the one episode in Legacies where the Mikaelsons come back and it even seems like Hope is more excited to see Marcel than anyone.

I think, in a world where Hope had a stable life raised by her family, they could have had a more sibling-like relationship. But there would always be an unevenness about it because of Marcel's age compared to Hope. It would be similar to Elijah and Rebekah, but without the egotistical brother. Hope would still look to Marcel for guidance and expertise on dealing with the family. Marcel would have been able to guide her better if he was closer throughout her growing up. Marcel would be the person she would call whenever she was in trouble or felt like the Mikaelsons were suffocating her. Marcel would take her out for the day and they would talk about how difficult it all was.

We were robbed of more interactions between Marcel and Hope as she grew.

Thanks for the ask!

I love both so much. I grew up with TVD and only discovered TO a few years ago. I still regularly re-watch them both.

But as much as I complain about the writing of TO, I prefer the storytelling of TO. It's one of the reasons I get so mad at how rushed and poorly done the last two seasons were. I wish they would have slowed down the pacing and had more seasons so that we could enjoy the stories more. But the seasons were so compelling. The enemies were complex characters who you kind of rooted for because they weren't wrong. The main characters weren't heroes and no one pretended they were. They were all super problematic people and even the best people did bad things at times. They all acknowledged this. The show acknowledged it better. It allowed the show to be more enjoyable than seeing characters posture and pretend the line between good and evil is distinct. The maturity of the show helped it be enjoyable because it allowed for more nuanced conversations.

Another big reason is simply the fact that TO aged everyone up. It felt more realistic watching people in their early twenties going through the events of TO, rather than watching teenagers behave like adults and get groomed by hundred year old vampires. It made the ships a little easier to root for too.

I also prefer the overall arc of TO over TVD. I love the early seasons of TVD and still enjoy the later seasons, but after a while the story began to feel repetitive. The whole show was based on a love triangle that they never tried to shake. In fact, they played into it. Even now, people still debate who Elena would have ended up with if Nina had stayed. Or Katherine for that matter. The villains all played into this. The fact that Katherine is supposed to be this 500 year old badass that will do anything to survive but is hung up on stealing a teenagers life and chasing after a guy who is just not that into her got old fast. She comes back from hell and is still obsessed. Everyone in the supernatural world being obsessed with a teenager and two baby vampires (because 175 is not old) was so wild.

TO tried the love triangle but it was hardly even a debate. Even with the different ships, it was always clear who the endgames of TO were. Which is because TO wasn't about the ships. I do wish we could have more time on the romance, but the arc of the show was about family. The ships were all secondary and largely centered on family as well. The ships weren't just a romance but finding found family.

On top of that, the enemies targeting the family made sense. Every season there was a different motivation but each one made sense. The Mikaelsons are the oldest vampire family who weren't good people. Of course they had enemies. The enemies had really good reasons to stay obsessed and seek revenge. The show could have just stopped there, each season bringing in a new enemy. But they mixed it up and kept it interesting. We had old family members coming back from the dead, a cult of vampires, faction wars, etc. The stories felt more organic because they weren't even always focused on the Mikaelsons, but rather supernatural conflict.

The TO lore was also more interesting to me. Dahlia, Inadu, the faction wars. We got to learn about more than just vampires, whereas TVD felt like all of the other supernatural were just to prop up the vampires. I will admit that TO slacked off on the wolves a bit in certain seasons, but for the most part, the factions were evenly represented.

I also loved the side characters in TO. Not that I don't in TVD. But I feel like TO had such a great collection of characters. TVD had the MF gang and everyone else was secondary unless accepted by the MF gang. The characters all just had so much depth.

All of this, is of course, opinions. Both shows have so much to offer. I critique them because I love them. But TO just has such a special place to me.

Thanks for the ask! I haven't really sat down and thought about this before!

I'm just knocking all of these out.

Like most of Damon friendships/romances, it's just not my cup of tea.

I do think Bonnie is one of the few people Damon truly cared for and was the only person he actually changed for.

That being said, he was still terrible to her.

Damon is one of those men that can be a good friend but once you put him into a romantic relationship, he's terrible. And saying Damon is ever a good friend is a stretch. We never once see Damon be a good romantic partner. He is possessive and controlling, yet always putting himself and his desires first. He is even that way with Bonnie in their friendship.

Damon has a bunch of his own issues so he throws himself completely into love to the point of it being scary and dangerous. He loves so fully that he no longer leaves space for the person he loves because he is so desperate for someone to love him. He no longer cares to respect their wishes or autonomy because he feels he knows better and that he is the only person that could possibly keep them safe. This is narcissism and abusive. Not love.

Their Season 6 friendship was good, but it was only possible because Damon was isolated from everyone else. Damon is only able to be a decent person in small doses or in a vacuum. But when things get complicated, he can't maintain it. We see this pattern play out in various scenarios.

We finally got to see some growth with Damon when he saves Bonnie multiple times when I saw sure he wouldn't. I actually thought they were going to improve his character. Bonnie is probably the only person that Damon actually works to save. Like put in actual work. Even with Stefan, he was quick to give up if there wasn't a simple solution. Their reunion after the prison world was sweet.

But then he forces her to see Kai after she nearly killed herself because of Kai, while he was one of the few people to truly know what Kai did to her. But again, we see some growth when he actually apologizes (I don't think he's ever done that) and when she tells him to leave, he actually listens (another first, also the fact that he didn't go on a murder rampage is an improvement). Then Bonnie just magically gets better and Damon is able to forget about it. Damon falls back into the same old habits of only communicating with Bonnie when he needs something. The prison world was the exception, not the rule.

I like that there are moments Damon actively chooses to save Bonnie, knowing it will prevent him from seeing Elena, but what is that worth when he leaves Bonnie with a note knowing that he would never see her again all because he missed Elena. Bonnie was devastated that she wasn't even worth a goodbye. But Damon was never good at the difficult emotions. Even with as much as he cared for Bonnie, he was not capable of being a good friend, let a lone a good romantic partner. If they could have lived in a prison world where nothing difficult happened, sure they could work. But Damon, in reality, would always take the easy way out and end up hurting Bonnie over and over again.

Damon didn't need to be in a relationship. He needed to learn to be on his own and value the other relationships in his life just as much as he valued his romantic relationships.

And no, this isn't a "Bonnie deserves better than toxic men" post. I mean she does. But even if Damon was just toxic to everyone else, I could get behind it. But Damon is also awful to her. Just less so than he is to everyone else. Bonnie had to constantly worry that Damon would betray her or choose Stefan or Elena over her. She never felt secured in their friendship because Damon was never able to value her over or even equal to Stefan and Elena. He was obsessed with them. Just as he had been obsessed with Katherine for nearly 200 years.

Thanks for the ask!