i looove those bisexual characters that just piss people off
the fact that op is pissed about people tagging this as dean winchester proves that dean IS the ultimate bisexual character that pisses people off
@amwritingmeta / amwritingmeta.tumblr.com
i looove those bisexual characters that just piss people off
the fact that op is pissed about people tagging this as dean winchester proves that dean IS the ultimate bisexual character that pisses people off
Okay, is anyone out here talkin bout Swayze? Look, just the invocation of Swayze’s name imputes a certain amount of homoeroticism, particularly when there are such clear allusions to Road House, which is known to be one of the most famously homoerotic movies of all time.
Take away the bi lighting and the gratuitous male/male touching and the prolonged looks and Dean’s preference for Lee over Lorna and the hard fact of a shared erotic experience and the intimacy of a man knowing Dean’s secret desires in a way a woman never will and the physical claiming of a private place on Dean’s body that a woman tried and failed to claim before and the concluding (standing) “o” after the men came together in the exertion of performance and the supercession of violent male/male physicality in the place of violent male/female physicality and the thrill of male/male bondage and the phallic imagery of beer bottles and guns and the way Dean knows the feel of Lee’s legs straddling his waist and the final penetration complete with tender touches and grunting and emotions brimming over
We’re still left with Swayze’s road house. And that, my friends, is gay. All on its own.
In case any of y’all don’t know why das gay: This is the movie where you see nakey Swayze from the back AND the front, it’s said you can see his b*ner through his sweatpants after the title fight, which he does shirtless, in fact he spends much of the movie shirtless, some of it oiled, he watches a man have sex and is watched by a (heavily queer-coded) man while having sex, there’s so much gratuitous nudity that it’s basically impossible to watch this movie and not be turned on if you’re capable of being turned on by people, he has a close relationship with the hottest version of Sam Elliot ever, and the main point of him is to be a “good guy” that just, like, beats bad men in dirty full-contact wrestling while they whisper homoerotic things to him like “your ass is mine” and “I used to fuck guys like you in prison” so
It’s a movie celebrating the virulent virtue of the ultimate manly man and actually it’s been said that it’s one of the only true bisexual action movies of the time period bc unlike many of the homoerotic movies of that time, the hero seems to actually like his female love interest instead of actually hating her. So I take it back, it’s not gay, it’s bi, and so perfect for Dean.
If Everybody Hates Hitler was the very first episode of Supernatural someone watched, wouldn’t they not only read Dean as queer, but feel like they’re supposed to read Dean as queer? I mean, if you were just introduced to him as a character, or if his character was still being established, wouldn’t it feel nothing but deliberate? Like, if I were watching a movie or something and there was a scene like that within the first 20 or so minutes, I’d just be like “ah, okay. he’s queer.”
Everybody Hates Hitler anon again, I’m trying to explain exactly what I mean. When we’re introduced to a character for the first time, everything in that establishing-period feels very deliberate. Like the writer is telling you “Okay, this is the character, and this is who they are.” But after a while that hyper-awareness fades, because you feel like you know who the character is now. If that scene had happened when Dean’s character was still being established, no one would question it.
Hey, love!
This is interesting and quite the conundrum, right? It feels like the question that’s been grappled with for many years on this website, where a large portion of fandom reads Dean as queer, or rather as bi--
(and has so been doing basically from the start for various reasons) (such as Kripke wanting to play around with homoerotic subtext in the earliest seasons) (which as far as I know is something he’s stated) (step in and correct me if this is wrong because I do not have the source for this) (I just remember reading an interview years ago and yeah I’m unreliable here so don’t take my word for it)
--while another portion contests that he’s bisexual and the vast majority of the GA doesn’t see it or, at least, it’s not something that’s discussed ever in mainstream media, because the bi has always been kept in subtext, yeah?
But.
The rub, if you will: all the instances we have of Dean behaving as though he is absolutely into men as well as women, all these instances that support the queer subtext reading, are part of the show as is.
Including the Aaron moment in Everybody Hates Hitler.
What I’m getting at is that, unless there is enough contextualisation in any narrative that a character is inherently supposed to be read a certain way, there will always be the possibility to contest a viewer’s interpretation of how said character should be or could be read.
I understand the argument you’re aiming for, though. Or at least I think I do: if we’d gotten that sort of scene in season one, then reading Dean as bi would have been more prominent and not as easily dismissed.
Which is totally true, to my mind, but my point is that, unless those moment had kept on coming and been just as pronounced and there had been an equal amount of Dean flirting with women and getting flustered around men as the show unfolded in those first few seasons, then that first impression wouldn’t necessarily have lasted.
Know what I mean?
It would’ve ended up as easily dismissible as it was (for some) when it occurred in S8, because the moment with Aaron is like gold dust of actual contextualisation, and it’s the very first instance of Dean getting flustered when a man outright flirts with him, and because we didn’t get this side to him unapologetically built on over the rest of the season, no matter the absolutely mouth-watering subtext of S8 between Dean and Cas, the contextualising moment with Aaron didn’t make the world go Oh Hell Yes Dean Winchester Is Also Into Men.
I guess all this is leading into me both agreeing with you, and also adding to your thought, yeah? Because yes, if we’d gotten Dean established in a more textual way as a bisexual character, then it wouldn’t have been dismissible at all, but hinting is still hinting, and unless the textual hinting is consistent, it’s easily watered down and ignored by anyone not willing to see him as bi.
The textual hinting we’ve gotten over the course of the show hasn’t been consistent enough to be thought of as a pointer to the canonical reading of him as a character. So one exchange in one episode wouldn’t have been enough in the long run anyway, and the discussion would’ve been the same regardless.
It’s interesting to think what the show would’ve looked like if Dean had been established as bi from the very beginning, because, to my mind, it wouldn’t have been a different show in any way aside from the fact that the will-they-won’t-they between Dean and Cas would’ve been much more hard drawn around what it’s always been about: lack of self-worth and miscommunication.
I don’t think they would’ve gotten the show made, however, if the pitch had been that it’s about two brothers where one is bi. I think that pitch would’ve been confusing and the demographic would’ve seemed too small. It would’ve been seen as more niche than it already is and been dismissed as something that wouldn’t appeal to enough viewers. Of course, I don’t know so, but I really do think so. Which obviously sucks ass, but fifteen years ago was a different landscape to what we’re watchin on screen today. *thankfully*
Kripke wanted to appeal to teenage boys back in 2005. He wanted to make a show that would draw in a young male audience. I would be a little surprised to learn that this show of ours would’ve been green lit back then with this demographic in mind if it had boasted a bisexual lead. Again, things have thankfully changed, and were on the cusp of change in 2005, but the queer shows that were big hits in the 00s were all exactly that: queer shows exploring lgbtqia+ narratives. Supernatural wouldn’t have really fit the bill, you know? And I think especially because it isn’t, and never was, about Dean’s sexuality.
I find the subtext of it all enticing and intriguing and, to me, Dean is bi and it’s not a huge deal and shouldn’t be made into a huge deal because the huge deal, really, is for him to gain the sense of self-worth needed for him to believe he deserves love and happiness. That’s the real crux to his character progression. The fact that love and happiness has come into his life in the shape of a man is just incredibly fitting and adds all those beautiful layers to the reading of him and so I’m okay with it not being entirely contextualised yet.
Of course, I hope it will be. I hope it will be put into a context that is not dismissible at all, but that brings all the subtext into stark relay and validates it, because it will validate all the work that’s gone into it and bring the point of it all home.
I just think Dean needs to get them ducks in a row first. :)
xx
Did you happen to catch a cap of the scene where Dean and Ketch were together before they met up with Kevin? Dean’s jacket was covering the F and it just said BI
What’s bi is bi
Endless SPN Edits: Time After Time, 243/∞
*hijacking*
Aw this moment is so pivotal for the entire season seven. Dean has spent it trying to tell himself that he’s not mourning the loss of Cas as deeply as he is out of a sense of personal bereavement based in love, but that his feelings are based in guilt. Which they also are, but that’s surface level emotional shit - deep, deep down he’s mourning Cas because Dean fell in love with the angel a while ago, he’s just not come to terms with it quite yet.
From the playboys, to the gay boys. Go and slay, boys. You my fave boys. ♡
hey :) so I was reading your tags in the Jensen "bromances" post (btw he's too handsome how dare he), and the tags said "something I'd be willing to bet he was told by Kripke& co in season 1" - so you think Kripke & co told him Dean is bi in season 1? Is this because of some interview or something? Or is it because of his acting choices? :)
Hi Nonny!
First off, his smile causes me physical pain and I’m glad you are as outraged over his attractiveness as I am.
Onto your question :P
I’m definitely inclined to believe that Jensen was told from the beginning that Dean is a closeted bisexual–though I don’t believe that Kripke ever intended to bring it out of subtext.
I don’t have a huge amount of time before I have to go to work, so I’ll make this as brief as possible. Consider the following:
As I see it, the likelihood of all that subtext and all those acting choices being completely coincidental is incredibly low. One or two things each season? Sure, I could see that being accidental. When it’s damn near every episode? Not so much.
In my opinion, this suggests that closeted bisexual has been an acknowledged part of Dean’s character in the writer’s room since the beginning, and that is definitely something they would have shared with Jensen at the very least, because it is information integral to the core of his character.
Also, while season three was still airing in March, 2008, Jensen had this to say in an interview: “Dean’s a promiscuous kind of guy. Who knows how he drums up the funds that they use?”
While Jensen’s comment is obviously just his own take and not a direct reference to canon, the fact that he so casually mentions it suggests that it’s something he’s considered in some way while forming the character of Dean.
So unless Jensen thinks there are a lot more women paying for sex with random drifters than there probably are, it seems pretty reasonable to assume that Dean would be drumming up those funds with dudes.
defilerwyrm spoke about this a little here, and I recommend the whole post because it’s just as fantastic as everything else Tom has ever written.
As I said before, I don’t believe Kripke ever intended to bring it out of the subtext, but there has been a definite cultural shift in terms of the acceptance of LGBTQIA* people worldwide over the past few years, and that’s likely why we started noticing the subtext getting closer and closer to the surface in season eight.
TLDR; Jensen’s acting choices and consistent subtext from 99.9% of writers lead me to believe that bi!Dean has been a thing since season one.
a guide to bi!dean in canon, sorted by episode and season!* // long post warning
1x01- pilot (watch)
1x04- phantom traveller (watch)
1x07- hook man (watch)
1x10- asylum (watch)
1x12- faith (watch)
1x15- the benders (watch)
1x16- shadow (watch)
1x17- hell house (watch)
2x02- everybody loves a clown (watch)
2x05- simon said (watch)
2x11- playthings (watch)
2x17- heart (watch)
2x19- folsom prison blues (watch)
2x21- all hell breaks loose part one (watch)
2x22- all hell breaks loose part two (watch)
3x01- the magnificent seven (watch)
3x04- sin city (watch)
3x10- dream a little dream of me (watch)
3x11- mystery spot (watch)
4x05- monster movie (watch)
4x06- yellow fever (watch)
4x08- wishful thinking (watch)
4x14- sex and violence (watch)
5x03- free to be you and me (watch)
5x04- the end (watch)
5x06- i believe the children are our future (watch)
5x07- the curious case of dean winchester (watch)
5x08- changing channels (watch)
5x09- the real ghostbusters (watch)
5x14- my bloody valentine (watch)
5x15- dead men don’t wear plaid (watch)
5x18- hammer of the gods (watch)
6x01- exile on main street (watch)
6x06- you can’t handle the truth (watch)
6x10- caged heat (watch)
7x12- time after time (watch)
7x20- the girl with the dungeons and dragons tattoo (watch)
8x01- we need to talk about kevin (watch)
8x04- bitten (watch)
8x06- southern comfort (watch)
8x07- a little slice of kevin (watch)
8x12- time after time (watch)
8x13- everybody hates hitler (watch)
8x17- goodbye stranger (watch)
8x23- sacrifice (watch)
9x06- heaven can’t wait (watch)
9x12- sharp teeth (watch)
9x13- the purge (watch)
9x15- #THINMAN (watch)
10x01- black (watch)
10x02- reichenbach (watch)
10x04- paper moon (watch)
10x05- fan fiction (watch)
10x06- ask jeeves (watch)
10x07- girls girls girls (watch)
10x08- hibbing 911 (watch)
10x11- there’s no place like home (watch)
10x12- about a boy (watch)
10x13- halt & catch fire (watch)
10x15- the things they carried (watch)
10x16- paint it black (watch)
10x17- inside man (watch)
10x18- book of the damned (watch)
10x22- the prisoner (watch)
11x01- out of the darkness, into the fire (watch)
11x02- form and void (watch)
11x03- the bad seed (watch)
11x04- baby (watch)
now if you compare this list of bi!dean moments with the list of straight!dean moments, you can definitely see that the proof for bisexual dean vastly outweighs the proof for straight!dean. which isn’t hard, as there isn’t any proof for straight dean; which i’m gonna prove for you real quick right here:
1. people like to use the fact that dean said he ‘didn’t swing that way’ to prove that he’s straight, when in fact, it’s null and void. no closeted queer person would come out to a random person, especially an enemy, which dean was speaking to each time he’s said something along those lines. when dean is approached in a non-platonic manner by non-enemies, though, he doesn’t say ‘he doesn’t swing that way.’ or deny his sexuality whatsoever. (for example, with aaron.)
2. people also like to argue that the fact dean has never kissed or had sex with a man on the show means he’s not bisexual, which isn’t true. a person of any sexuality can have never kissed or had sex with anyone, and it wouldn’t lessen their sexuality. (for example: charlie was still as much of a lesbian before she kissed gilda as she was after.)
3. then of course there’s this interview that kripke did. this is not evidence against bi!dean! eric kripke, the show’s creator, has never called dean straight. he said that he thought the dynamic between sam and dean (who are brothers) is not unlike the dynamic between sebastian and miles from revolution (being the topic of the interview), who are two straight men. this quote by him is often used out of context by people trying to disprove bisexual dean by saying that the two straight men he’s talking about are sam and dean, when the people in question aren’t even on supernatural.
but yeah, carry on saying dean is straight if that’s what floats your boat, and if you do happen to know any evidence for straight dean, i’d be happy to debunk it for you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
*this only contains the more obvious moments, and there is more evidence in the show that isn’t on here, such as in the symbolism, body language, tone or set design of a few episodes, but they’re smaller and/or more open to interpretation than these, so they’re not on here. feel free to watch the show and try to find more!
Whyyyy has the original post been deleted?