Very random ask but I was wondering what your thoughts are on John’s alcoholism. There are so many episodes that there might be a clear answer to this that I’ve just forgotten. I remember in the pilot Sam says that it’s not uncommon for their dad to show up after a bender or something. I think Dean has made a few comments over the years but specifics escape me. When John was around in the first season I don’t remember them making a thing about his drinking or presenting him as intoxicated but that doesn’t necessarily mean anything. I mean the shows presentation of John was inconsistent, in my opinion. I just know that there’s a lot of fanfic where they really utilize his substance abuse issues in a very particular way and it often doesn’t feel exactly right to me.

no please like--or okay wait let me caveat this first by saying that my very firm rule wrt fanfic is anything goes, deepest respect, it's fine for fic to relegate what was in the show a major character to 'plot device' status and just have them do heinous things because someone has to. like godbless this is morally right. that said I think this is one of the tropes that bleeds into meta and an osmosis understanding of the characters in a way that's not always very relevant or interesting when it comes to the actual show.

like--I think it's fair to say that there are plenty of lines across time in the show making it very clear that john drank to excess at least semi-regularly & would prioritize this over his children's wellbeing, that he was an angry drunk, and that he made this his kids' problem. idk yeah there's that first episode line, oh another bender quelle surprise. there's stuff like 7.03 "my dad [has a temper] too. you don't want to see him when he's drinking" or 12.21 "the drunken rages... child abuse, really" or 11.15 where sam points out the draw of taking them to wrestling matches for john was distracting them while he drank. all so true.

it's just like THAT said, all unmitigatedly bad, I think fandom tends to do the typical fandom thing where they pretend this is only meaningful if taken to the extreme of. john was completely absent from their lives except when roaring drunk & and beating sam and dean within an inch of their lives, excuse me beating just dean within an inch of his life while sam from within the same hotel room remained blissfully ignorant. which is like demonstrably untrue on the show lol. like yeah every time we see him he's sober and often teary-eyed with love & performing a demanding and dangerous physical job that demands spells of sobriety, they both have fond memories of him presumably sober doing fun activities with them like the grand canyon or fishing. and when the question of john and physical violence comes up it's as a negative--1.14 we're soooo lucky we had dad because he didn't literally beat us xoxo or even just the qualifier in 12.21 of "child abuse, really" when please be serious even cw supernatural would acknowledge beating your kids as just actual straightforward child abuse. even just 8.12 "[dad] was always there for us" okay quite literally not true dean but I think it's worth pointing out because it's wild to think dean made this up whole cloth, very clearly john did show up for them often enough to give dean some material to work with as he rewrites history. to me this is kin to people insisting dean's expression in 1.14 means he's thinking 'oh sam doesn't know dad beat me' rather than it being part of a series of scenes over the course of the first two seasons where sam softens on john and dean who spends half his time browbeating sam into exactly this (1.08 respect his old man, stick with his family, sometimes he had to raise his voice but you were out of line; 1.11 it's called being a good son) finds he doesn't actually want sam to cave on the topic (you stand up to dad you always have hell I wish I--anyway i admire that). or 5.16 "I thought you were dead and when dad came home--" that dean broke off there because john must have beaten him because what else could possibly be so terrible, when like. dean is obsessed with his dad who has successfully made him believe everything that happens to sam is his personal fault so I would suggest that perhaps a literal beating is not required to explain this emotion. to me it's very, well there are apples present in this basket so there MUST also be oranges. like a. not true and b. why are we obsessed with adding oranges, what for, what does that accomplish.

no sorry this got very long and sidetracked but my point is. john was alcoholic, and egregiously emotionally abusive to his kids (complimentary <3), and just as abusive sober as he was drunk, and I think the way fandom insists on going ah so that means he was roaring drunk constantly & never fun or supportive or loving, and that means he was beating them is just like not true or necessary.

anyway this does all come back to the way this fandom parses abuse overall honestly, on a binary setting where any good qualities need to be elided because abusive people don't have good qualities and abusive relationships don't have good times/if we do acknowledge good qualities then it's not abuse it's just hashtag complicated. and from there it's fascinating to watch whether people are at least consistent in whether they deny that john and dean are both abusive or whether they manage to pretend only john is.

wincest wednesday Q — what's your fave john winchester headcanon? or what fic would you love to read about him that you haven't found yet.

Happy WW!

I think John was occasionally a nice drunk.

Scenario - Sam and Dean were sitting cross legged on the bed, playing Go Fish, and John came stumbling in drunk. Sammy, not knowing any better, asked John if he wanted to play too. Dean tensed, thinking their dad would turn Sam down and then he'd have to see the rejection on his little brother's face, but to his surprise, John obliged.

John admitted he didn't know how to play, and Sammy's face lit up, excitedly babbling the rules and dealing out the cards. Dean could tell his father wasn't really following the kid, but John had a smile on his face for the first time in who knows how long. He caught on to the rules quickly enough.